UKH

This winter will be the first that I've planned on spending significant time in Scotland, and my current softshell trousers are both a bit on the wimpy side and falling apart. Does anyone have any recommendations for a new pair of trousers? I'm specifically looking for something that isn't insulated, doesnt have a membrane and has a well-fitted lower leg (to avoid crampon accidents).

I quite like the look of the Mountain Equipment Mission - especially with the Windstopper knees and seat (which I find often wet out quickly if messing around in snow). Another option that just popped up while browsing is the Mammut Base Jump Touring trousers, which have the added advantage of braces. Anyone have any experience with either, or an alternative recommendation?

The stock answer to this question is get a pair of the Simond softshell kecks from Decathlon. They aren't insulated as such but are fairly heavyweight so may be thicker than you're aiming for (I tend to wear mine with no base layers for winter walking, with powerstretch leggings for Norway or Scottish climbing), they are stretchy and above all pretty cheap. 

I looked at some Mammut softshell trousers and ME G2 yesterday and wasn't sufficiently impressed to justify the extra cost.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/mens-alpi-pants-id_8386810.html

I would normally, but I'm not sure they really fit the bill on this point:

The Simonds will go over ski boots. That's not very close-fitting. I guess it's up to the OP to decide how close-fitting they need...

Decathlon alternatives, with more fitted lower legs would be:

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/sh500-x-warm-m-stretch-pant-id_8493789.html

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/sh900-mens-warm-blk-trousers-id_8548586.html

When it comes to winter soft shell trous, the Montane Sabtretooth pant is the daddy. I think they’re discontinued but you may get lucky.

I've never tried them over ski boots tbh but they are not baggy round the top of leather winter boots. They can be cinched in too using a velcro strap.

I wouldn't describe my crampon technique as refined but the only time I've spiked them is in the back of one knee (don't ask!)

Barbour overreousers are great. Just don’t wax them except on the backside and knees. Egyptian cotton is king! Or Pharaoh?

I massacred a pair of loose-fitting trousers on my first attempt with crampons, and now I'm very wary of excess material around front points. Not just for the wallet, but because it'd be a very embarrassing way to die. That said I've also managed to get my front points caught through a belay device on the back of my harness and almost fall off the Midi arete 'vers Chamonix'...so maybe I'm just not to be trusted with crampons...

Anything with insulation is also a big no - perhaps the only thing I won't compromise on. I'd much rather have the flexibility to put layers on underneath a wind and water-resistant pair of trousers that otherwise don't add much to warmth.

Thanks for the suggestions, please do keep them coming

Montane Terra Mission Pants might be for you? 

Saying that, I was impressed by the ME Mission pant and I found the fit was a lot better than the Montane ones. I like the massive vents on the side, which was the biggest let down on the Montane ones. 

Ronhill tracksters. £11 from Wiggle currently

As others have said the best option is to get the cheaper simond ones, They are really good and robust albiet a bit heavy.

You will probally kick holes in your first pair of trousers so there's no point buying expensive ones.

I've used them for skiing since I first bought them in 2010. I'm an evangelist (see past threads). But I'm also a realist, and they are generously cut enough that I can fit synthetic liners underneath. I can't do that with the other suggestions I gave, which are also more wind resistant than the Simond.

Some objective numbers. Folded flat, the Simond mountain pants measure 23cm across (M) at the ankle. The Forclaz 900/500 measure 21cm.

Actually, those measurements are for previous models, so all bets are off; the OP would do well to consider any of them, and, as I said earlier, decide for himself. They're all good, and bargains.

I think the problem with soft shell as a term, is that it covers a large spectrum of different items.

Initialiy I didn’t really get its purpose, having tried a few membrane versions, both upper and lower body, and heavier lined non-membrane. For someone who runs hot, and sweats a lot, it was almost as sweaty as hard shell, and not as water proof. I used things like the OR Ferosi trousers a few times, then gave up with them, and went back to hard shell over light trousers or tights.

Then I tried a few light weight non-membrane trousers, and found the niche that worked for me. My current favourite are the Montane Alpine stretch, pretty close to perfect for my needs (well, maybe apart from the styling!): light, breath well, shed resonable amount of water, then dry quickly, 2 simple zipped pockets. I can wear them for ski touring as they fit over ski boots when the ankle gussets are unzipped. Just warm enough on the move for all but the coldest winter days here in NZ.

I've got ME Missions. Have used them for winter walking, climbing and skiing and would recommend them. The leg will fit over a ski boot when unzipped but is close enough fitting when done up. Fabric is holding up well and the wind stopper knees in particular help keep the wet out.

I've got a pair of Arcteryx Gamma ARs too which have a nice trim fit but the missions are definitely more versatile. 

I use an old, quite heavy version of the Paramo Aspira trousers. Brilliant. Some folk say they can wet through but not my experience and that's less likely in cold and snow anyhoo.

Used a good few premium brands, ME, North face, but after using the Simond trousers the rest has ended up as the backup.

I think (hope) I've outgrown that phase now after four years of plodding around the Alps.

Good to know. The Gamma ARs were also on my radar, but I haven't fondled a pair in person and couldn't tell from the Arc'teryx website whether they might be a bit light for winter. They sound equivalent to my current trousers (Norrona falketind flex1), which are most definitely not windproof enough.

Agreed. There is a world of difference between a lightweight stretch woven softshell and a heavyweight membrane. They houldn't all be under the same umbrella, especially when it's often hard to tell from manufacturer's descriptions online what it is you're looking at!

I tend to wear a lightweight softshell jacket and trousers at all times in the mountain, with insulation to suit the activity. Keeps the wind mostly out, keeps the rain at bay and can be worn all day without getting sweaty. It's comfortable even on a glacier in July in the middle of the day, and means there's less stopping to adjust layers. I don't bother with a proper shell unless the weather turns really nasty and I'm struggling to stay warm - wet and warm I can deal with quite happily.

Does anyone have any experience with the Mammut trousers, or at least the material they're made from (Schoeller ecorepel)? They seem closest to what I'm looking for, and at this stage I think it's a choice between those or the ME trousers.

Ah I see, fair enough, I was under the impression you were a beginner for some reason, Unsure where I got this from.

I use the Montane Champex Pants at the moment, I've tested them in the alps and Scottish winter (just this season) I really like them.

Pro's

• Very wind resistant (pretty much windproof) 
• The Internal wicking lining does a really good job at preventing sweat buildup and keeping you cool. 
• The internal gaiter is really really good providing your boots have exposed lace eyelets for it to grab onto. 
• The ventilation zips work well
• Sheds light rain and snow easily
• Pretty lightweight
• Dries really quickly

Cons

• Its only a waterproof treatment so I guess this will eventually wear off and I will need to re apply it.
• The internal gaiter only works if you have exposed lace eyelets, if you had boots like the scarpa phantoms it might ride up.
• No reinforced knee or seat

I have an old an old model of the base jump that I bought second hand from a friend for about £20. I have a lot of second hand kit and this is one of the few items I would happily pay full price to replace when they eventually wear out.

Not sure I'll ever forgive Montane for not continuing with the Sabretooth pants. They seemed every bit the equal of the jacket. I made the mistake of waiting and trying to get a pair on sale and regret that. 

Another vote for the Simond which I bought earlier this year when my trusty ME's from years ago gave up the ghost. 

I must have traipsed round every shop in Keswick, Ambleside, Llanberis and Hathersage trying on winter trousers and the fit was awful. 

In desperation I thought I'd try Decathlon - nothing to lose. Surprised to find they were a superb fit and just the ticket whether on Great End ice in February or Elbrus in August. And of course the most unbelievable bit is the price, considering I was looking at almost £300 for some Paramo.  

Another in the long tradition of discontinued “perfect” gear. Presumably too niche. Sorry to rub it in but they are superb

I went for the Mammut trousers in the end - the braces swung it for me (although the fact that they're available in colours more exciting than grey and navy was also a minor factor).

Now I just need an excuse to wear them

Echo the base jump pants. Really good bit of kit.

I’ve used Norrona Svalbard Flex1 for winter trips for around 5-6 years now. I mostly use them for ski touring and longer hut to hut trips in cold and dry winter weather. They are made of quite thick, yet soft and stretchy soft shell material. I find them very comfortable, breathable and durable. I’ve used them in very cold and windy weather, wehere you weren’t able to see your own feet below yourself due to whiteouts, and they kept the wind out, even though they are not rated 100% wind proof. Only downside to them is that the tightening around the ankles. It consists of buttons, so you can’t get a really tight fit around mountaineering boots, so you’d have to wear gaiters if there is deep snow. I manage to get them over my ski boots, but I don’t know how it is with larger boots. If you can live with that, I’d highly recommend them.