Ultimate Outdoor Trousers

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 big 21 Sep 2018

I've been searching for quite some time for the ultimate outdoor trews...

By that I mean waterproof, breathable, excellent articulation, pockets etc. 

I've tried overtrousers - basically they're either elastic/shock-corded waist which never fit properly and when you're climbing or scrambling tend to open up and fall down, or they're incredibly heavyweight things which would cause you to die of heat exhaustion should you use them in any sort of positive temperature.

I've tried softshell pants with DWR - in particular Klattermusen and Mountain Equipment ones both of which would be perfect if the DWR would hold rain out for more than 20 minutes. I've found that both then functioned as an excellent conduit for rainwater to find its way into my boots.

I've also got a pair of lightweight ski trousers by Helly Hansen which almost get there, but as climbing kecks are let down by lack of reinforcement in the knees/seat etc.

And the nearest I've got so far are a pair of Chris Packham Lutra trousers - they fit very well, can be held up with a belt, have great articulation, have a generous thigh pocket that isn't positioned so that anything in it bruises my knee, but while much more waterproof that softshells, lasted about 50 minutes against Storm Allie's onslaught on Moel Siabod t'other day.

Any recommendations?

 ianstevens 21 Sep 2018
In reply to big:

You're looking for something non-existent. Overtrousers are hot because they breathe badly because they are waterproof. Softshells leak for the opposite reasons (note the R in DWR stands for resistant). My take: when it rains, don't go scrambling or climbing and overtrousers are fine (for walking etc). When its not raining, softshells will keep a bit of damp at bay (i.e. if you're in a cloud or it rains a little).

1
OP big 21 Sep 2018
In reply to ianstevens:

But I want the currently impossible!

Trousers with Windstopper and taped seams might be the answer?

 Root1 21 Sep 2018
In reply to big:

Windstooper won't breath, as the name suggests. The most breathable and almost waterproof are probably Paramo cascadas. They are however not robust enough for climbing and primarily a walking trouser. 

BTW getting wet is not a problem, its staying warm thats the issue.

OP big 21 Sep 2018
In reply to Root1:

 

> BTW getting wet is not a problem, its staying warm thats the issue.

Indeed! But I'd like to avoid the squelchy-boots-filled-with-water scenario.

I've also thought of a halfway house between flimsy summer overtrousers with their poor waist fit and heavyweight but more fitted winter ones - the Rab Latok Alpine - but I've been put off by many reports of leaks...

 Guy Hurst 21 Sep 2018
In reply to big:

The Paramo Enduro Tour Trousers sound like they would fit the bill, although I've never used them.

 GarethSL 21 Sep 2018
In reply to big:

You could look at some of the hybrid options out there. These typically are waterproof or membrane fabrics mixed with non membrane softshell. Weather resistant on the most exposed parts and lighter more breathable where its less important.

They seem to come and go, but some brands are still doing them. By far the closest thing you will get to what you want. Issue tho is they often lack features or are more in the lightweight end of the spectrum.

E.g. Norrøna Falketind Windstopper, Arc'teryx alpha comp, Mammut extreme hybrid etc... etc.

 PM 21 Sep 2018
In reply to big:

I’ve had these for a few years now, and they (for me) come pretty close to meeting your seemingly impossible requirements.

I guess they could maybe be described as very thick soft shell.

https://www.haglofs.com/gb/en-gb/rugged-mountain-pant-men/p/604147-3NR.html

After a day of pelting horizontal rain they do definitely let a bit through, but on the damp side rather than sodden.

 PM 21 Sep 2018
In reply to Root1:

> Windstopper won't breathe

First words from the Gore Windstopper product page: Products made with GORE® WINDSTOPPER® fabrics are totally windproof and deliver maximum breathability...

 

Post edited at 14:13
OP big 21 Sep 2018
In reply to PM:

Gore Alp-X So bike pants (!) look perfect, if I can find some that aren't lurid green...

And the Paramo Cascada 2 trousers also look good, though I've always found their cut to be deeply unflattering - though maybe that's changed in the 20 years since I tested gear for them!

Also liking the look of the Norrona/Arc'teryx offerings.

 nathan79 21 Sep 2018
In reply to big:

Neoshell pants are probably the best fit for what you want. Rab used to a cracking pair but I think they've discontinued them.

Montane Fast Alpine Neo pants might be worth checking out. 

Mylo73 22 Sep 2018
In reply to big:

Have a look at Fjallravens Bergtagen trousers which seem to tick all your boxes.

Not cheap by any means but you'll notice where the extra ££'s went.

 PPP 22 Sep 2018
In reply to nathan79:

That would be my guess as well. I do have a pair of Adidas Terrex Tech Rock Winter pants made in Polartec Power Shield Pro: 

https://www.trekkinn.com/outdoor-mountain/adidas-terrex-techrock-winter/136...

I was after winter troos that didn't cost an arm and a leg and got them for £35ish off some Russian eBay seller. They have survived awful weather conditions, kept me warm and I have packed only them on overnight winter trips. Granted, knees get a bit damp if it's completely drenching, but not uncomfortably so. In those sort of conditions, the tops get damp too as well - only dry suit would work? 

https://imgur.com/a/uVtAhfK . I had them on that day and spent most of the day in goggles and heavy  rain/snow/wind. I don't take Gore-Tex Pro salopettes anymore. 

I just don't understand why Neoshell trousers are not a thing. Being able to wear trousers in dry and cold as well as mild and damp makes it almost perfect winter trouser. They can be quite heavy compared base layer and thin (unlined) softshell trouser combination, but not having to layer trousers just makes changing winter conditions so much more bearable. 

 

P.S. Power Shield Pro has 5k head compared to 10k on Neoshell, so the latter should be even better.

 Root1 22 Sep 2018
In reply to PM:

> First words from the Gore Windstopper product page: Products made with GORE® WINDSTOPPER® fabrics are totally windproof and deliver maximum breathability...

Manufacturers claims are generally like the car makers fuel consumption figures. 

Pure Fiction.

 nathan79 22 Sep 2018
In reply to PPP:

I love my Rab ones. Lord knows why they've stopped doing them. Sports Direct have some Karrimor ones at the moment. I'm tempted to give them a go.

 

 

 Ally_McCoy 24 Sep 2018
In reply to big:

The ME G2 has served me well over the years, when new and kept clean with correct products stayed waterproof for 30-50mins and dry pretty quick with the vent zips open. Worth just carrying a pair of lightweight GTX trews in your daysack for when the rain comes in no?

OP big 25 Sep 2018
In reply to Ally_McCoy:

>Worth just carrying a pair of lightweight GTX trews in your daysack for when the rain comes in no?

I've come to that conclusion... 

However, I've been looking at stalking trousers which may actually be what I was originally looking for - though they come at a high price!

https://www.ardmoor.co.uk/harkila-pro-hunter-x-trousers-11-01-103

 

 

 

 GarethSL 25 Sep 2018
In reply to tehmarks:

Reminds me of the technical Knickerbockers...

https://amundsensports.com/knickerbocker-mens/

Bellie 25 Sep 2018
In reply to Root1:

Aye, maximum breathability could mean anything.  Maximum breathability in an item that doesn't breathe much, could be rubbish, but still is the maximum.  

 Billhook 25 Sep 2018
In reply to big:

Nothing can do everything. Otherwise they'd only be type of Ultimate Outdoor Trousers.

 

OP big 25 Sep 2018
In reply to Billhook:

They don't have to do everything - just be long-term waterproof, hard-wearing, all day comfortable and look good (cos it's a fashion show out there).

It's not as if I'm asking them to drive me to the crag and buy me a pint afterwards as well! Though that would be a definite bonus...

 David Myatt 25 Sep 2018
In reply to big:

Try ventile trousers. Hilltrek do them either in single layer or double.

https://hilltrek.co.uk/clothing/trousers/cabrach-dv-trousers/

I have two of their ventile jackets and love the material.

Cheers, David

 

 

OP big 25 Sep 2018
In reply to David Myatt:

I'd forgotten about ventile - I've got an ancient double layer ventile NATO flying jacket which is most excellent...

In reply to big:

> flying jacket

Flying jacket? Wow; that's a bit more impressive than just driving you to the pub...

 GarethSL 26 Sep 2018
In reply to big:

I think Klattermusen still make some stuff in a ventile-esque fabric called EtaProof from Stotz.

http://stotzfabrics.ch/en/outdoorfabrics/

Their Rimfaxe trousers in EtaProof also have kevlar reinforced knees, apparently not available but you can still find them in some Scandinavian shops. Far more technical, flattering design and certainly better quality than UK made ventile clothing. Though you may want to remortgage your house or sell a kidney.

 Flashman38 22 Oct 2018
In reply to big:

Just for a laugh - to try Neoshell - I`ve just had a pair of these delivered

 

https://www.sportsdirect.com/skiing/mens-ski-wear/mens-ski-pants?utm_campai...

 

and I have to say I`m really impressed. 

I`ll be wearing them for walking not skiing and they`re not too baggy.

Very light, so I`ll wear them all day rather than as an overtrouser (zips only up to the knees).

Quality seems excellent and I cant argue with the price.

They also do a more hillwalking orientated pair but I preferred the look of the 

"ski" pants

The others are here

 

https://www.sportsdirect.com/karrimor-neo-shell-pants-mens-442377?colcode=4...

 nathan79 22 Oct 2018
In reply to Flashman38:

I had been wondering about giving the regular walking ones a go as a second Neoshell option in my gear wardrobe. It's good to hear a hands-on opinion of these other ones.

 Neil Williams 22 Oct 2018
In reply to big:

Shorts, and just layer up on the top half to compensate.


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