Snowdon Horseshoe in the rain?

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marshexplorer 09 Aug 2018

My partner and I are hoping to do the Snowdon Horseshoe this weekend, we thought with all the good weather we'd be guaranteed a sunny day -both of us seem to have forgotten that there are no guarantees in Wales! It looks now like its going to tip it down all day. Everything I read about the walk says that in bad weather it should only be attempted by people with the proper experience and equipment - my question is, what does this mean? We have sticks and waterproof clothes and good gloves for gripping, but is there something else I'm supposed to have if it's wet up there?

We are confident walkers and have winter hiking experience, but I don't think either of us have done a real scramble before, and somehow neither of us have ever done a big hike in the rain either! So I'm just not 100% sure how to prepare for a rainy hike. 

Thanks for any advice you can give me. 

 Mike Peacock 09 Aug 2018
In reply to marshexplorer:

It sounds like you have all the kit. That being said, the Snowdon Horsehshoe is probably best not underestimated; the climb up the East Ridge of Crib Goch is a proper grade 1 scramble (R hand skyline here http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4281953), and the crossing of Crib Goch itself is extremely exposed. I'd suggest that if neither of you have done a graded scramble before then a bad weather day on the horseshoe might not be the best introduction.

Why not do a half horseshoe, by going over Lliwedd? That's also a g1 scramble, but is easier to reverse, and only has exposure on one side.

 payney1973 09 Aug 2018
In reply to marshexplorer:

I'd say what they mean for scrambles on a bad weather day is rope, harnesses, some gear and helmets. 

mysterion 09 Aug 2018
In reply to marshexplorer:

A good rule of thumb is to add one grade to a scramble in conditions such as rain or wind. So consider Crib Goch in the wet as a grade 2 scramble, not a grade 1.

Wet at that height often means up in the clouds so you won't be able to see much ahead and will need to navigate. Even though it is a ridge there are points at which it is far from clear which way you should go if you cannot see your objective.

Poles are not much use on a scramble, they just get in the way. If you feel the need to use a pole then you would be better using that hand to hold onto the rock instead. What you really need is confidence/experience.

Post edited at 12:51
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 CathS 09 Aug 2018
In reply to marshexplorer:

Why don't you just postpone it to a nice dry clear day when you can enjoy the scrambling and spectacular views and exposure?

Rigid Raider 09 Aug 2018
In reply to marshexplorer:

Best advice above. Just swallow your pride and plan a low-level walk taking in a pub or cafe for lunch. An essential part of mountaineering is being prepared to modify the route to suit the conditions and having contingencies in mind. Oh, and making sure your long-suffering partner actually enjoys the day.

Post edited at 15:44
 Tringa 09 Aug 2018
In reply to marshexplorer:

Agree with CathS. Why bother with a route this good if you are likely see nothing? Crib Gogh alone deserves a good day so you can enjoy the scramble and especially the views.

It will still be there another day.

 

Dave

 Jenny C 09 Aug 2018
In reply to marshexplorer:

> We are confident walkers and have winter hiking experience, but I don't think either of us have done a real scramble before, and somehow neither of us have ever done a big hike in the rain either! So I'm just not 100% sure how to prepare for a rainy hike. 

Suitable clothing (warm and weatherproof), sensible footwear, navigation skills in poor visability and a willingness to admit your own limits are all you need for a wet weather hike.

Scrabbles however are pretty miserable in the wet as when you start climbing the water seeps in at the waist, neck and wrists, so even with good waterproofs you're going to at best be damp. Perhaps most importantly though, whilst Crib Goch is an easy scramble the result of a fall will probably be fatal, so on wet rock or in high winds it would not be a route I would choose to do. 

 

 

 elliot.baker 09 Aug 2018
In reply to marshexplorer:

Not to hijack the thread but can I ask the community whether "good gloves for gripping" is true? Are bare (albeit wet and potentially cold!) hands better for gripping than gloves?

I only ask because I asked why rock climbers don't wear gloves when I very first started rock climbing (and started getting sore hands!) and was told that there would be too much give between hand and glove to offer more grip than just using bare hands. 

Obvs it would be good for the OP to know the answer to this as well.

Cheers

 Stichtplate 09 Aug 2018
In reply to elliot.baker:

Gloves aren’t much of an issue for scrambling as you’ve typically got large handholds where a slight loss of adhesion Isn’t going to make any difference.

 

 SouthernSteve 09 Aug 2018
In reply to marshexplorer:

For me, it is doable in the rain, but I wouldn't do it if it was very windy. However, other people's comments to wait until a pleasant day are very true. It is a lovely walk in the sunshine. A slog on the Carneddau is what you want when the weather is shocking!

 

 Trangia 09 Aug 2018
In reply to CathS:

> Why don't you just postpone it to a nice dry clear day when you can enjoy the scrambling and spectacular views and exposure?

I couldn't agree more. It's a great classic scramble and it would be a pity to miss out on the views and exposure. If it's pouring with rain, and they really want to climb Snowdon  they might just as well plod up one of the other routes and get wet and miserable on that !

 Alkis 09 Aug 2018
In reply to marshexplorer:

I have done it in pretty much all conditions, other than full on winter (only ice caused by super chilled rain forming while we were up there :-s).

Perfectly doable, but miserable and you’ll miss out on the excellent views.

 Dave the Rave 09 Aug 2018
In reply to marshexplorer:

Moel Siabod via the SE ridge then back to the pub in capel in 3 hrs? 

 mountainbagger 09 Aug 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

Yes, good one. Was going to suggest that

 Mick Ward 09 Aug 2018
In reply to marshexplorer:

Have done the Horseshoe just once, a couple of decades ago. Wild conditions. When I got to Crib Goch, there were about 40 - 60 people just looking at it. Nobody venturing. With decades of soloing, I wandered across. Nobody followed. The rest of the day (almost zero visibility), three people passed me, going the other way. Nobody passed me, in my direction. I've never been a particularly fast walker and, if many had got past Crib Goch, quite a few would surely have passed me. I'm deducing that few, if any, got past Crib Goch.

In terms of a good day out, it was sensory deprivation for most of the way. There was a break in the clouds, for less than five minutes, with the most glorious views. Showed me what I was missing!

As others have suggested, I'd go for something else and save this for a better day. Please don't underestimate Crib Goch. If/when you get on it, if you both feel fine, then OK. But if either of you doesn't feel fine, than bail.

As one of the most wise men in climbing history once remarked, "It'll be there next year. The trick is to make sure you are."

Mick

 

 Mike Peacock 09 Aug 2018
In reply to Alkis:

> I have done it in pretty much all conditions, other than full on winter (only ice caused by super chilled rain forming while we were up there :-s).

> Perfectly doable, but miserable and you’ll miss out on the excellent views.

The suggestion isn't that it should be avoided entirely in bad weather, but that it should probably be avoided as a first-time scramble in bad weather.

 

 Alkis 09 Aug 2018
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Agreed. I somehow missed the how inexperienced of the party is when I read this, my point was that it wouldn’t be worth it either way though, it’s rather a masochistic affair in bad conditions.

 McHeath 09 Aug 2018
In reply to Stichtplate:

The gloves thing: they're fine as long as you're in control. If a foot slips and you need to grab a wet hold in a hurry, I'd rather have bare hands.

Post edited at 23:05
 Stichtplate 10 Aug 2018
In reply to McHeath:

So would I, but if conditions dictate numb hands or gloved hands, I'd go with gloved hands.

 CathS 10 Aug 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

Haha! I was also thinking of the scramble up Moel Siabod as an alternative. Always good for a rapid raid on a poor weather day, and the OP can see if they like scrambling on wet rock without it being as committing or potentially scary as Crib Goch. There is only one bit I remember being slightly iffy in the wet.

But actually still not sure whether picking a wet day for your first scrambling experience is a great idea.  I suppose it depends how adventurous and confident you are on potentially slippery rock.

 

 Gone 10 Aug 2018
In reply to SouthernSteve:

I did it once when it was very wet. We would have bailed if the forecast had been for high winds as well, but it wasn’t.

My abiding memory was that the air currents round the  ridge forced the rain to rain upwards as well as sideways. Some of the party stayed dry under their waterproofs but those with light and loose waterproofs got water coming in in all sorts of places. Pretty miserable.

 jkarran 10 Aug 2018
In reply to marshexplorer:

It's not much fun when wet and slimy in the cloud, I presume it's better in nice weather but I've never tried. I'd hope the forecast is wrong but assume it's not, make a plan that is going to be more fun in bad weather.

jk

In reply to marshexplorer:

I'd highly recommend you not to do it in dodgy, wet or windy conditions, particularly as you have no scrambling experience. You might find if very 'unenjoyable', which would be a pity, because in fine conditions it's surprisingly friendly and you will have such a good day you will want to come back and repeat it again and again.

 Alkis 10 Aug 2018
In reply to Stichtplate:

FWIW, I have found Rab M14 gloves (the old grey model with the leather palms) very good for scrambling and easy climbing. Adhesion remains great even in damp conditions and even crimping works to an extent.

marshexplorer 10 Aug 2018
In reply to CathS:

Because we live about as far away as you can get from any and every good hike in the country, and it costs £200+ for us to get out. If we could be more flexible we would but don't really have the cash to chuck around. 

To clarify: we aren't planning on forcing ourselves up a ridge in torrential rain if we can't do it, but we aren't going to stay indoors and watch the rain either  

Post edited at 21:06
marshexplorer 10 Aug 2018
In reply to Rigid Raider:

Oh no, we don't have a problem with that (also don't have a 'long suffering partner' either haha) - my husband and I have turned back on many a hike when we weren't feeling it! It's sensible advice and we will definitely be taking it! 

Post edited at 20:51
marshexplorer 10 Aug 2018
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Thank you, this is great advice!  

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marshexplorer 10 Aug 2018
In reply to Gone:

If I'm honest this sounds like so much fun to me, haha. We aren't going to compromise on safety though, we'll be checking the weather carefully and are looking at the shorter route that a previous commenter suggested. Thank you for posting! 

marshexplorer 10 Aug 2018
In reply to Mick Ward:

Thanks for this reply, that's really helpful!

marshexplorer 10 Aug 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

That looks great! Adding that to the contingency list Thank you!

In reply to marshexplorer:

Current forecast looks like it should be dry and not too windy until mid afternoon today. 

 

 Darron 11 Aug 2018
In reply to Tringa:

 

> It will still be there another day.

Was it Whillan’s who added “trick is to make sure you are”

Sage advice.

 

 McHeath 12 Aug 2018
In reply to Stichtplate:

> So would I, but if conditions dictate numb hands or gloved hands, I'd go with gloved hands.

Fair enough; so would I! (But only on a route which was well within my capabilities).

In reply to marshexplorer:

As I got older and the walking was more about the views than the challenge l decided any walking in the rain just isnt worth it and go to the pub insead

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