UKH

I have been a long time fan of Mountain Equipment gear. I like when the gear does its job and you don't have to second guess about such trivial things. My now 5 year old ME Morpheus jacket that I got second hand was due a replacement, but it was still fine - it started delaminating and it's showing signs of wear as you'd expect. 

This year, I got a pair of gaiters for 40-something pounds and Janak jacket (for £320!). The gaiters failed in 3-ish months and the jacket in 8 months. Both had the stitching/glue from the drawcords fail and they just deattached. I don't think I pulled them too hard (would be a sign with other items) or washed them in high temperatures in case they were glued on. 

Luckily not a critical issue - gaiters still stayed on during a multi-day winter walk, but still annoying and I got myself questioning whether my next jacket will be Mountain Equipment one... Is anyone else having problems with ME or is it just bad luck? I really hope it's the latter. 

cannot comment on ME gear since i have not used it for ages (no particular reason for that) but, perhaps OT, I definitely stopped using North face since the gear seems to be nowhere near the previous quality, whilst still commanding top dollar price tags.

I bought a rupal ME jacket and its coping really well. Only had it since the start of the year though. No complaints from me. Their customer service might be worth speaking to. If i spent £330 on a jacket i would expect a lot more than 8 months use 

Yeah, I would be getting something cheap if 8 months were the lifetime of a product! Luckily, I got the money back in both cases, thanks to Trekitt and Cotswold Outdoor. 

ME Janak was mainly a multi-day/winter jacket, so I have few months to think about - still have a lighter jacket for summer months. 

I like ME because it generally fits me pretty well, certainly better than any other brand out there. That being said, I've only come across them last year, so I don't have any experience with their older gear

One thing I would say is that I think they are hideously overpriced : I got a lot of my ME stuff in 'end of season clearance' type deals, often at ~50% (and on a couple of occasions, even more than that) off.It makes you wonder: if a shop can afford to give out that sort of discount (and probably still turn a profit), how much does the kit actually cost (yes, yes, I know that there's more to it than just the manufacturing cost, but that high a profit margin is just taking the piss)?

The Janak is not worth £320 in my opinion (come to think about it, no waterproof is) but you frequently see it in the sales for ~£240 which, although still pretty steep, it's much more palatable

I mean most outdoor brands can be found at similar discounts eventually - you've identified a brick+mortar pricing reality not an ME upselling conspiracy

You don't have anything to lose in contacting them directly about this via their online feedback channel. I contacted them about their power-stretch cuffs holding onto water when the ultra-fleece fabric of my jacket had already dried out and they seemed to phase out power-stretch cuffs.

At 50% off the shop probably isn't making any profit and may well not be covering all its costs. This is unless pricing has changed radically since I worked in climbing shops.

You only have to read these forums and its all about 'the latest kit'.  Or 'fashion' for the older folk on here.  And fashion comes at a price.

If by "in my opinion" you mean you've really thought about this (and are not just saying "without any knowledge or thought") have you thought about setting up a company to make quality shell jackets that sell at a much lower price?

Alpkit might have come closest with their direct to consumer model. The Definition is 230 quid. ME probably sell the Janak's to the shops at about half of the RRP that we see (the shop has to add on VAT, cover all their costs from rent to wages to electricity bills and make enough profit to make being in business worth it. So if that makes ME's out of the warehouse cost about 160 either Alpkit are making big profit margins on the Definition or it costs them more to make than a Janak does for ME.

The only prices for serious jackets I can think of below Alpkit is Decathlon, but they will probably buy in an order of magnitude larger than Alpkit or ME from their factories. I think it is also fair to say that at least in their outdoor gear they tend to let other people (ME, Arcteryx, Patagonia etc) do the R&D then come out with rather similar looking products made with non-brand, generic materials at excellent prices. I'm not knocking Decathlon and like a lot of their stuff, but in outdoor clothing they aren't the most innovative company.

Are any companies really that innovative anymore? It seemed like there was a boom a decade or so ago when Patagonia, Marmot, Arc'teryx, Mountain Hardwear, Rab and ME were all pushing out some seriously cool new stuff. With a new type of material being announced every other month. Then it seemed that it was just too expensive to make or impossible to keep up with production demand. Then all of the wild or more specialist gear slowly started to disappear from the clothing ranges in favour of mid-range semi-budget gear.

I still think Nike ACG was one of, if not the most innovative outdoor gear brands a decade or so ago. Some of the stuff was just alien for the time, the inflatable gore tex jacket springs to mind (seriously NASA inspired stuff). Then all their gear ended up in Tk Maxx and then it all just fizzled out.

Arc'teryx still do cool stuff but it most of their R&D now seems focused on their military and uber-streetwear stuff. They haven't really made anything mind-blowing since they popularised the water resistant zip and laminated construction techniques... nearly 20 years ago.

I think they've all just found a comfortable pedestal and sat on it, realising that people will still pay the price they set and nobody cares if their jacket has 12 stitches per inch or 22.

The point I'm trying to make is that when you have that high an RRP, the perceived lack of value is much more obvious : when you save close to £200 on a single jacket (ME Prophet - RRP £300, I bought it for £134, brand new, delivered to my door), you're much harder pressed to justify paying anything close to retail

I love my new ME Echo jacket. One of the best I've owned. I will probably buy more ME jackets in the future. I almost never pay the full retail price for outdoor clothing though. Got the Echo for 40 or 50% off. The Odyssey is on my radar and well priced wenn you get 20% off.

I love ME gear.

last 3 pairs of Ibex trousers have all split at the crotch pretty quickly but everything else I've got seems to be excellent.

Starlight IV bag , Shivling jacket (6 years old) Lhotse jacket (only 2 years old) unknown down jacket (8 years old) Annapurna jacket from the 80's

But the heavy discounts are just on things that haven't sold very well or where the company got its ordering wrong. I just bought some 5.10 shoes at less than half price from R&R but they are obviously buying excess stock from 5.10 in order to flog them off at 45 quid.

You won't always find what you want on discount, but it's great when you do!

I've had similar issues recently so I feel your pain. 

Bought an ME Changabang around 2 years ago and it lasted 5 days before the internal snow skirt delaminated. Took it back to the retailer who sent it back to ME, they agreed it was a manufacturing defect and replaced it. The replacement only lasted 10-15 days of use before one of the chest pocket zips and pit zips started to delaminate - it looked as though there must have been a kink in the zips when they were originally laminated to the jacket in the first place as they started to bulge inwards.

Another visit to the retailer who sent the replacement to ME. Another "manufacturing defect" and another replacement.... 

I now have a Tupilak as a replacement (Jacket number 3) and no problems yet, it's only been 4 months though so we'll see...

Pretty disappointing as they aren't cheap bits of kits. The reason I'd opted to spend a bit more in the first place was that I thought I was paying for better quality however that hasn't really been the case. 

It’s unfortunate it’s not just me then! I always considered ME to be one of the best quality companies and it has always been good experience. 

My question now is what’s left from the companies I trust. I don’t have much experience with Arc’teryx, but Montane has been my favourite for quite some time - although the Montane Endurance Pro jacket costs £450... 

But unless the retailer is selling at a loss just to get rid of stock, then nothing about my initial point changes

Anyway, I can see this descending into an 'iPhone pricing' type argument, so I'm out

Well no, it will be the manufacturer selling at cost or a loss in those cases and I guess when they are over stocked. Arguably it's basic economics, the things available on discount just weren't very popular. The popular models sell out at RRP.

The popular models sell out at RRP.

I find it's the popular sizes that sell out and all that left on the bargain rail is the XXXL!

You say that arcteryx haven't done anything ground breaking, but the still make waterproofs that are actually waterproof 100 uses down the line. That's pretty ground breaking in my book, yet to see another modern jacket that's not made from oilskin do that.

*location Fort William, the wettest place in the uk*

Sorry, that wasn’t me who claimed such thing. I just haven’t had any of their gear (apart from a laptop rucksack which has been great) - I was a student few years ago and couldn’t have justified a higher price tag. 

Heavily discounted items are end of season stock getting sold off at cost in order to get cash back into the business to buy the next season's (well, two seasons ahead) styles and colours. It happens with all retailers.

However, as a pretty average sized chap I find the things I want are rarely discounted or they were discounted but I don't have the time to trawl the internet so by the time I spot a deal, my size has gone.

ME is my go to brand. There large is invariably spot on size wise and they have a great range of really good products. I have had no quality issues and they haven't changed factory/owner/all their staff so I don't see why they would have gone downhill?

I also have a Patagonia and Arcteryx bits but am slightly too big for a medium but the large often dwarfs me.

I think you're reply to PPP was meant to be to my earlier comment. Of course they have done ground breaking things, but my point was that they haven't done much recently. 15 years ago they were advertising hardshell clothing that would sustain a minimum of 80 days wear without suffering any noticeable reduction in performance. So whilst it was groundbreaking back then, it's just expected now.

Their other successful items (alpha fl packs for example) are just a lighter weight and less durable regurgitation of earlier products that were frankly far better and should never have been discontinued (e.g. acrux, naos and arrakis).

Whilst they have a fantastic "if it isn't broke don't fix it philosophy," for a company that basically leads the way in product R&D it would be nice to see them come up with something new. Like they did with their WARP harness technology, their gloves project or the ski boot line.

Im still using (not now obviously) a ME lightline that I've had for 10-12 years.  Its a bit grubby and maybe could do with its first wash and the zip will need replacing but otherwise its great.

They also came out with the Voltair bag, which was pretty groundbreaking.

I still a 23+ year old waterproof Lightline Jkt (can't remember actual model name). Been washed a few times, velcro worn, cuffs tatty, loathed to buy a replacement cos still warm and works!

Also have similar aged Marathon 300 sleeping bag, still used during summer or staying in CIC.

I have some more recent products, whilst probably won't last as long, very happy with quality, customer service, would certainly buy without hesitation.

Stuart

I did contact ME and they said that they “sold a very large number of jackets and gaiters using this construction, many of which have seen exceptionally heavy use for extended periods, and I'm not aware of any wider issue”. 

In later email, they claimed that the same construction is used in all Gore-Tex Pro jackets. 

It it could just be bad luck, but it’s disappointing regardless. 

I only own a pair of rock trousers and winter climbing gloves and both have held up really well in my experience. 

Whenever such issues pop up it's always worth checking with the retailer/manufacturer. They might be aware of any issues with items or it may help them to know that there are potential problems with some of their stuff.

I've been looking at new waterproof jackets lately and ME is my first port of call (though considering Alpkit) as their cut suits me and my 8 year-old ME prolite is still performing well and in decent nick

Yeah, my older ME gear just keeps on surviving. Some of the bits just look old! So I am wondering whether they are going downhill or not. 

I checked with them already (see few posts above), and they claim that’s not a widely known issue and all of their GoreTex Pro jackets use the same constructions. 

I am currently set on Montane Endurance Pro jacket, just hoping to catch a nice sale. I do have few other jackets (or too many jackets already!), just need something durable and heavier for winter. 

Have just returned both my Tupilak jacket and trousers after two years of reasonably intensive use. The trousers would piss water through and had extensive fabric bobbling where the face had came away from the inner layers. The jacket had been returned twice due to a pull cord on the hood coming clean out, the second time for a burst zip which was replaced. Third time, the zipper went again which pissed me off as it was brand new and I was working on the hill and could've ruined the day for my clients had the rain stayed on.

Thankfully each time I've returned items they've had great customer service and have offered me a new pair of the trousers and a credit note for the jacket as it's currently out of stock. Can't fault them for that side of things and have always felt they were genuine when stuff isn't up to standard.