Honesty box?

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 andrew ogilvie 29 Jul 2018

I was just posting a response to the thread about the development of a private coaching crag at Cheddar and it reminded me of the recent discussion over car parking at Cairngorm ( not that I'm saying they are equivalent simply that my memory was stirred) and my experience parking at Brimham on Easter Sunday a couple of years ago or at Ben Lawers last week.

It occured to me that we ( in the form of BMC , MCofS, Ramblers, UKC,  ) have it in our power to do some good.

If some independent body was to set up and publicise a very small voluntary, opt in fund that you could text a donation to each time we enjoyed a day on the hill or crag we might possibly raise a great deal of money. This could be used to preserve the environment and to  promote access and inclusion . I think I once heard a psychoanalyst reflecting that it works better if you pay for it ( though as I write this I wonder if it was maybe in "Manhattan" or "Annie Hall?) and I wonder if it might not add to our experience to feel that our recreation has some wider societal benefit.

Many a mickle makes a muckle as my Dad used to say.

 

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 marsbar 29 Jul 2018
In reply to andrew ogilvie:

It’s a good idea, and there is an app, https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/28-03-2018/the-honesty-box-enters-the-21s...

but as it says there may be problems of internet reception in some places.  I remember trying to pay online for car parking (in Devon I think) and wandering about for ages to try to get a signal.  In the end I gave up and prevailed on my passengers for real cash.   This was a council car park not an honesty box situation, I think in an honesty box situation you would would end up with several people not being honest, and several more intending to pay, but giving up on the idea.  

Text payment may be better than an app as a text can save and retry.  I don’t know if that is more costly to run?  

Post edited at 11:34
 wbo 29 Jul 2018
In reply to marsbar:you could do it at home then as you're paying for overall enjoyment rather than a particular facility.

i think it's a great idea

 

 tehmarks 29 Jul 2018
In reply to andrew ogilvie:

I think it's a fantastic idea, and if there were some likeminded members on the forum I'd be very interested in being involved with setting something up.

 Trangia 29 Jul 2018
In reply to andrew ogilvie:

For years Harrison's Rocks car park had an honesty box with a suggested "contribution". Sadly it seems that an awful lot of people just didn't pay. Sad really.

In reply to andrew ogilvie:

Was up at cairngorm on Wed in my trafic van (£2). The lad collecting the money was great friendly and said that the voluntary contributions had been nigh on zero. 

If the money goes on the car park, facilities and supporting access I'm all for it. How it's going to work in the middle of the winter I have no idea  

I did have to laugh as some had parked just before the entrance, saving a few quid no doubt.

 MischaHY 30 Jul 2018
In reply to Graham Callander:

> I did have to laugh as some had parked just before the entrance, saving a few quid no doubt.

I always giggle at stuff like this. There was a time in the not so distant past when I genuinely couldn't afford even small sums on a regular basis as it would make days out cragging too expensive - and I sure as shit couldn't afford a car either. Imagine driving to the Cairngorms and then balking at paying £2 for a managed car park. 

In reply to MischaHY:

Them "were't" the day.....get a grip.......the first time I made to Loch Morlich was walking from Aviemore.....

These things don't appear for free, carparking, maintenace, clearing the snow road, providing toilets, they all cost money mate....

Post edited at 08:18
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 dominic o 30 Jul 2018
In reply to andrew ogilvie:

Great idea! Rather than reinvent the wheel, there's already an established UK wide "honesty box" in the form of the BMC's Access and Conservation Trust (ACT). This does exactly what it says on the tin: conserving wild places and supporting access to them for climbers and walkers. 

You can give by text:

Simply text the code AACT01 followed by the amount you want to donate to 70070*.
You can donate £1, £2, £3, £4, £5 or £10.
As an example, to make a £10 donation, you would text the following to 70070: AACT01 £10.
There are no charges, so all the money you donate goes straight to ACT.

Alternatively, you could donate to the BMC Mend Our Mountains campaign to support vital access and regeneration work across Britain's National Parks. 

https://mendmountains.thebmc.co.uk/donations/national-appeal/#donate

 MischaHY 30 Jul 2018
In reply to Graham Callander:

Mate, I was agreeing that £2 is piss all and helping fund these maintained car parks is no big deal. Get down off your high horse and take another read? 

 planetmarshall 30 Jul 2018
In reply to marsbar:

> ...I think in an honesty box situation you would would end up with several people not being honest, and several more intending to pay, but giving up on the idea.  

In large enough numbers people behave in a very predictable fashion - there are some results in game theory for example on how diners split the bill at a restaurant - below a certain number of diners they overpay, above that threshold they underpay (assuming that someone else's overpayment will pick up the shortfall). I daresay usage of an honesty box will follow a similar pattern.

 

In reply to dominic o:

I had no idea that such a thing existed, much obliged thank you. I guess, then, that I'm advocating a marketing campaign for exactly that sort of initiative.

I'd be interested to discover whether the bmc scheme includes Scotland or whether the MCofS have a parallel scheme? Access issues different north of the border due to outdoor access legislation but accessibility and inclusivity still worthy of support. 

In reply to dominic o:

I had no idea that such a thing existed, much obliged thank you. I guess, then, that I'm advocating a marketing campaign for exactly that sort of initiative.

I'd be interested to discover whether the bmc scheme includes Scotland or whether the MCofS have a parallel scheme? Access issues different north of the border due to outdoor access legislation but accessibility and inclusivity still worthy of support. 

In reply to planetmarshall:

I'm personally not concerned about my making a higher voluntary contribution than someone else. If someone wants to climb Ben Lomond , or January Jigsaw without contributing then that's up to them and doesn't diminish the value of any donation I make nor does it make them a bad person. 

What I'm interested in is establishing a climate where it becomes natural and attractive, for those fortunate enough to be able to afford it, to give something as an investment in the environment we appreciate and in outreach to others who may not have the opportunity to share that experience.

 

 dominic o 30 Jul 2018
In reply to andrew ogilvie:

You're right - needs awareness raising. 

The Mend Our Mountains campaign is nationwide and includes two projects in Scotland - one in the Cairngorms and one in the Trossachs. See https://mendmountains.thebmc.co.uk/donations/national-appeal/ for links to all 13 projects. Spread the word! 

In reply to dominic o:

Thanks again Dominic , your reply is in perfect accord with my reply from Mountaineering Scotland this afternoon and its worth noting that their officer replied very promptly and out of office hours so full marks to the national bodies for their initiative and their service.

 

In reply to MischaHY:

Opps......mis-read your original comment.....I'll climb down now...cheers..

 MischaHY 02 Aug 2018
In reply to Graham Callander:

No worries chap :-D 

 birdie num num 02 Aug 2018
In reply to andrew ogilvie:

I’m not sure I like the idea of a virtual honesty box. I normally like to put a couple of buttons or an old washer in those things 


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