UKH

The cold winter has delighted walkers & climbers, but also put pressure on our crumbling roads. Some of the worst potholes can be found en route to the hills. Emily Donoho has spoken to some of the many hill-goers affected by the state of Scotland's highland roads.

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In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

You should try avoiding the potholes on a road bike. I know of some cyclists who disappeared down some. Luckily, they climbed Scottish VS and managed to get out. 

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

When did potholes and driving around them or slowing down for them cease to just be part of using the road? I guess part of the problem, probably almost all of it is even fairly boring cars now coming with 18/19" wheels wrapped in £1000+ of near useless wafer thin rubber. Cars with reasonable tyres on, tyres with some actual sidewall height are much tougher that most people would believe.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

Yep - couldn't agree more - none of the examples shown in the article look that bad to me.

However, the true man eating potholes in South Africa were another thing altogether.

Even then, faced with oncoming traffic and forced to take one head-on, the little VW Polo (without low profile tyres) took it in it's stride. Fair enough the 12" drop/lip caused the wheel trim to come loose (conveniently i had a zip tie to hand to hold it back on), but other than that - no real damage

As a local Highland road user, this article is just stating what we already know. The Photo's don't do the damage justice, nor indicate the extent.  The roads are falling part, and are in a dangerous condition.  I've lost a tyre this winter,  so have most of my neighbours which include sensible 'lower' speed drivers and people driving land-rover discovery type vehicles, and we are generally more aware of the worst bits! So its not driving style or vehicle type (low profile tyres are obviously at greater risk). Its got to the situation that on a long journey (30-60 miles)  after dark, you will hit a severe pot-hole at some point.

Several sections of the trunk road network have had temporary 30mph limits imposed for several weeks or more, because of the poor state of the surface. Nor are the problems confined to the trunk network.

Once the tourist season gets in full-swing and road usage increases exponentially the local recovery services are going to have a 'feast', but also the chance of a loss of control post pot-hole strike resulting in collision will increase. I wouldn't be riding a motorbike (if I had one) after dark that's for sure........

 

 

In reply to ScraggyGoat:

Yes the roads are a nightmare... We and the author both struggled to get images that really reflect the worst of it. That's partly because driving to/from the hills is often in the dark. More than that, since being on the lookout for photo ops (a couple of months now) I've found that even if you do see an impressive hole the chances are you won't be in a position to safely pull over and take a photo. 

In reply to jkarran:

Slightly strange response.  Don't know where you live, and not familiar with Scottish highland roads but certainly in the Manchester area the state of roads including potholes has deteriorated massively over the last few years - it's now commonplace to see sections of very significant potholes all over the road network including on major trunk roads and commuter routes.   And plenty of them significant enough to do damage if hit at full speed (30-40 mph) and on roads where slamming brakes on swerving could easily cause issues.  

Certainly around us we seem to be getting to close to the point where deterioration is happening at a rate too fast for repairs to keep up with.  

In reply to ScraggyGoat:

In general the roads are improving now, but it is simply at a point where if you do any amount of driving, you will come off worse eventually. If it's not knackered tyres, it's tie rod ends getting worn out. I don't usually get wound up by these sorts of things, but a couple of cars bills later and it's just getting annoying. I say that driving the A82 essentially every day.

In reply to Ian Patterson:

Due to (the currently) lower traffic volumes, if you're not a local aware of the pothole locations, or if new ones have opened up you'll be hitting them at 50-60mph on the highland trunk roads.  Agree that the maintenance teams just can't keep up.

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

In Derbyshire the County Council seem to have adopted a policy of leaving things be, letting potholes self-fill with dead cyclists, moped riders etc

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Last year in Scotland 1 Pothole cost me 2 tyres, 1 new alloy and  a suspension coil!

That was a single hit at about 50/60mph.

As jkarran says though, this was on low profile 19" tyres.

The roads are a a joke!

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Thought I had blown tyres on my rental car coming back from Dryfehead bothy yesterday, on the road from Borehead to rejoin the M74. Road surface was very good, doing circa 50, suddenly, on a slight rise, the surface changed dramatically, clearly where renewed surfacing had ended. Into a short zone of continuous potholes and a couple of worryingly loud bangs before slowing down to under 40. Had a car behind me so no scope for sudden breaking. Luckily, when I inspected the wheels, no damage.

Maybe because the hire car was new with good tyres. Anyway I also had taken out a separate policy (just covering two days) for claims excess: clearly to be recommended if hiring cars to drive in Scotland at the moment!

In reply to Ian Patterson:

I live in York, my country road drive to work looks like it's been strafed after the freeze and is still extensively flooded. I'm familiar with some of the highland roads being mentioned, at least in the state they were in a month ago, they're rough. I also grew up in a rural area with badly potholed subsided roads on which I did lots of road rallying. Elsewhere I've done fairly long overland journeys including big stretches of unmade road and very severely potholed tarmac in a variety of vehicles from old Landies to a Seven*. Never once have I popped a tyre, bent a rim or knocked my steering out of true on a pothole or damaged road in 20 odd years of doing that (I've burst a few road tyres rallying off road). We don't pay enough to maintain our roads in good condition year round, that's a choice and frankly a reasonable one.

*actually thinking about it I ripped a whole corner off the Seven under hard breaking on that trip but that was on flat tarmac and it was a manufacturing defect!

The state of our roads just doesn't bother me, it's miles better than I grew up with and no big deal with some care. Most will be fixed once the weather improves anyway.

That's a hard wet winter, we have them every few years, they'll be getting mended once the weather perks up in time for the next.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

When I'm on my motorcycle - which is mostly every day - I just go a bit slower and look at the road ahead and avoid the potholes. This works quite well when I'm in the car as well.

cheers

mark

In reply to JMarkW:

Yes, I think there are more important things to get worked up about on the roads.

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

We seem to have sunk to the depths of the daily mail here with this "scandal of Britain's potholes" article. 

To help fuel ukc's new journalistic style, I would like to report that there were some French climbers at kendal wall yesterday. We won't have any of that post breakfast, up yours Delores. 

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

A particularly nasty one got me and three other vehicles within the space of half an hour! One of them got two burst tyres at the same time. And it's hardly a busy road. The rest of it was totally fine so there was no particular reason to be on the lookout, even if seeing it in advance would have been possible in the dark. 

Can anyone who regularly drives the road to Kyle of Lochalsh from Invermorriston confirm whether this one a few miles out from Invermorriston has been sorted?

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

I burst a tire on a pothole just outside of Hathersage in the Peak District this winter, so I agree with the others that England and Wales are pretty awful too. I did go up with my kids to ski at Glencoe and Aonoch Mor back in February and the A82 did seem shocking even compare to mess that South Yorkshire is in. I of course try to steer round them as much as possible but I think everyone is going to miss one sooner or later, then its just luck as to if you get any damage or not.

I did report the one that burst my tyre and did get a reasonably fast report that it had been patched, which indeed it had. Don't know if that was just luck or lots of other people reporting it, or whether Derbyshire CC were responsive to my email.

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Yeah. I've been driving to the Highlands several times a year since the late eighties, and the roads are in the worst condition they've ever been. As mentioned, some bits are bad enough that temporary speed limits have been put in place. Part of the problem is that patches added in the last few years are now getting scruffy themselves, the join line being susceptible to frost and erosion very quickly, but clearly resurfacing whole roads is not something councils do any more, its too costly.

The Shield Bridge road seemed particularly bad, though some has been fixed. The Ullapool road has its moments and as its generally a nice open road, folk can be coming along at a reasonable speed and suddenly come across a ruddy great hole.

The popularity of the "North Coast 500" isn't going to help. Met some road cyclists doing it when we were at Achmelvich last week, they must have been enjoying some pretty hairy hole dodging at times, and motorcyclists will also have to be very careful.

 

 

 

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

This is the way to deal with potholes

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/comedy...

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

The roads are the worst I have ever known in over 40 years of driving. Austerity means the roads are not being repaired and resurfaced, which is false economy. I remember a house with a couple of loose slates that would have cost very little to repair. The owner left if for years and eventually had to replace half of the roof and timbers, as well as half of the gable end,  no doubt at great cost

My point is that its exactly the same with the roads. Without  regular investment in resurfacing and proper repairs, our roads are going to cost billions more to put right in the long run. That of course will be a problem for the next government.

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

I'm surprised some people are not at all concerned about this. I  agree there are worse things to be worrying about but it seems pretty clear to most people on this thread that the roads have deteriorated dramatically over the last few years, and I'm talking about Wales and southern England where apart from early march it hasn't been a harsh winter.

I have no confidence that these problems will be fixed soon and some of them are dangerous as well as damaging.

In reply to mountain.martin:

Just one of a huge number of underfunding problems our government seem to be hoping won't become critical until after Brexit is a done deal, but inevitably will do so afterwards.

In reply to mike barnard:

It’s considerably better now. The stretch on the A82 just north of Invermoriston has been completely resurfaced and the road between Invermoriston and Kyle has been (mostly) repaired. There’s a nasty rut at Invergarry if you’re heading to The Fort and the stretch between Drum and Inverness still has a couple of nasty sections, mostly at Dochgarroch. 

All due respect to those saying, ‘just avoid them’. I suspect you don’t live and work up here, it’s nigh on impossible to avoid the bloody things!

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

It's been a long wet winter. There are potholes and crumbling roads. Not a totally unexpected surprise. Drive a bit slower?

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Slow climbing news day.......whatever next........

 

In reply to Toby S:

That's encouraging. Cheers!

In reply to jkarran:

There's a lot to be said for simple steel wheels too.

Vanity comes at a price.

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

I live in Sydney and visited the UK last November. I spent a long weekend in North Wales. (Trip down memory lane) I thought that the roads were in good condition in the main.

If people have problems with UK roads, then I suggest that you do not try the road to Natimuk and Mount Arapiles!

 

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

It's difficult to tell from reading the article to what extent this is a long term problem compared to being a post harsh winter problem. Given it has appeared in April it makes me think more the latter. I was in the Highlands last winter and don't have any recollection of the roads being any worse. The potholes don't look that bad in the photos. 

To give things perspective, the streets around my flat in Oslo are riddled with potholes right now. It's just the after-effects of winter. This year's been particularly bad. Part of the speed bump in my street even got washed away. It happens everywhere almost simultaneously and so it's difficult to fix everything immediately. There obviously aren't the resources, even in Norway, to patch everything so quickly. They'll probably get fixed at some point in the year before the next winter. Although the smaller streets usually only get repaired every few years. The main roads are usually better but I suspect that's largely due to the resources available, since these conditions are much more normal. The UK is never going to have the same levels of resources given this degree of winter conditions is much more adverse. Maybe the UK is just less used to the effects of harsh winters and therefore less accepting of the effects? 

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

In 2011 a report was published showing £2 billion was needed to fix potholes on Scotland's roads. I would guess that things are a lot worse now and the state of both rural and urban roads is by far the worst in the UK.

In reply to Mr. Lee:

 

Its been ongoing since October last year once the cold weather kicked in. I think part of the reason is increased traffic on the roads during the peak season (tourism traffic has increased hugely over the last couple of years) and Bear Scotland haven’t been able to keep up with repairs. The road surfaces are significantly worse compared the previous winter. The photos in the article don’t tell the whole story by any means. 

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

https://twitter.com/Go_CheshireWest/status/971327505725640704

I think the initial "offending" photo has been changed by Cheshire, but appears below in various guises..  

(edit - add original thread https://imgur.com/gallery/WIMhS)

 

In reply to Ally Smith:

I'm sorry to hear that. We normally mark pot-holes in SA by putting a giraffe in them so that motorists can see the giraffe's ears sticking out. Our municipal services are typically efficient and known to be extremely thorough so either you were just unlucky or the giraffe assigned to the one you hit must have wandered off. The latter case doesn't happen often because giraffes don't climb very well.

In reply to Mr. Lee:

I'm not sure that's fair, it's not so much down to resources as it is due to the council and the government's complete ineptitude. All we want is to pay less in tax and have better public services. Why don't they deliver for once? It's almost like some people are hell bent on fabricating a correlation between Scotland's decade long council tax freeze and less public spending. 

In reply to jkarran:

Very very dangerous on a bike. I know lots of people who have been in bad accidents due to potholes.

In reply to ClimberEd:

I'm not arguing FOR potholes, just for a sense of proportion and some patience after a hard wet winter. Avoiding them is easier on a bike, there are half as many wheels to line up.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

Unfortunately not as simple as that. 

If a car is passing you at the same time, too close, then you may not have a choice. Or you may be riding in a group. Or it may be under a puddle. 

The point being that a pothole crash on a bike could be a broken nose, collarbone, or even much worse. Rather than the 'fixable' damage to a car.

In reply to ClimberEd:

It pretty much is.

Perhaps people should avoid riding on flimsy wheels and tyres, fast in tight gaggles or through puddles especially in the winter and spring when the roads are inevitably damaged. Changing just one of those things makes you much safer. If you can't see far enough ahead to stop or at the very least take avoiding action because you're riding in a tight gaggle you're not using the road safely, that's a choice. Same goes for tailgating in a car or overtaking in a crocodile of traffic so your options and view are closed down.

I really don't get what the fuss is about.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

Now you are simply trolling.

You can rabbit on but I certainly won't be reading what you have to say.

In reply to Presley Whippet:

English breakfast, or continental...?

How about pre-elevenses?

In reply to Mal Grey:

I have a feeling that the failure to seal cracks, and join lines in patches and other road works is down to some health and safety problem regarding the use of hot tar. This may not be true, but it is certainly true that joins and cracks are never sealed any more, whereas they always used to be.

In reply to Mr. Lee:

I've been travelling up regularly for the past 25 years and can say that this year in the NW seems far worse than its ever been and there's been some bad winters in that period. As others have said, there are much worse pot holes than those pictured. The situation is not nearly as bad as it was earlier in the winter but the patches are temporary and will have to be made good at some point or the cycle will repeat. Some of these roads are really fast and you could be travelling at a high speed into a large pothole.  Its not like on an urban road where speeds are lower. I wouldn't normally be motivated to write about the roads but the situation this winter seems extraordinary to me. I can't remember anything like it in previous years on Skye and the A87.

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Author's note: I got response today from BEAR Scotland to a Freedom of Information request I made a couple months ago.  Unfortunately they hadn't yet responded when this went to publication.  I'd asked how many claims from drivers for pothole damage they have recieved between March 2017 and March 2018 and how many of those they have paid out.  They said they have recieved 1011 claims and paid out 175 of them.   Obviously that's all of Scotland's trunk roads, not just the Highlands.

Re: photography...  The biggest potholes seem to be on sections of the roads where it isn't safe to stop and then stand in the middle of the road taking pictures.  Dan and I were limited to photographing the ones near places where you could safely pull over, which were never as impressive!

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

It may help if potholes are reported to local authorities, but are they interested fixing them is a different matter, simply because councils are more concerned about how fast motorists are traveling than the conditions of the roads,just look at those speed bumps being built up and down the country,no wonder they are skint,bad management financially,trying get more funds from Central government? The more fund they get the more they wasted ! We just need to be careful on the roads till they come and fix them,but good chance you will seeing Nessie first !

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

If you are worried about potholes on roads - as indeed we all should be - the least expensive solution is to drive slower. It will also lead to a less corrosive environment for pedestrians and cyclists. Most of Scotland's rural roads are inhospitable, if not unsafe, for pedestrians and cyclists because of the speeds of cars. Local authorities and central government have far more important things to spend their money on than maintaining roads for high speeds: like education, special needs provision in schools, social services, the NHS, support for refugees, and the like. Complaining about potholes is like fiddling while Rome burns.

Lorens

In reply to lorens holm:

I think you're right about Scotland's roads not being particularly cyclist friendly. There seems to be a lack of the sort of network of quiet country lanes that you get in England and more fast roads shared with lunatic motorists. 

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

I object to all this talk about potholes getting "filled in", it is unnecessarily inflammatory and aggressive.

A. Pothole

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

How disappointing. I thought this was a caving thread. 

 

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

You want to try the roads in Northumberland... I believe we receive the least investment and the worst spending on infrastructure in the country... although that might change now they're talking about dueling half of the A1. There are entire roads splitting apart and more than one has vegetation growing through the middle of it. Just about every road in the county from housing estates and A-roads to remote rural country lanes need repairing.

Whenever Scots think they've got it bad... whether it is schools, hospitals, fire stations, doctors, affordable housing, jobs, roads... look across the border and say a prayer of thanks that you don't live in Northumberland.

In reply to Andrew Wilson:

lol... so did I

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

The Times is on the case: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/the-cracks-are-showing-in-auster...

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

In Manchester and Bolton there are plenty of potholes on busy A roads big enough to knock you off your bike if you don't see them coming.

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Driving the A82 across Rannoch Moor at night has been a hazardous affair this winter.  Some of the potholes up there have been huge and at night time you just can't see them especially when being dazzled by oncoming traffic.  There are also those deer to keep an eye out for.

We narrowly avoided a pretty bad accident in the daytime up there this year after an oncoming car swerved suddenly and violently onto our side of the road to avoid a huge crater on their side of the carriageway.  Only our quick reactions saved the day, otherwise we'd have been looking at a head on collision with both vehicles doing around 50mph.  Serious stuff.