UKH

I have a montane smock which has been brilliant on summer alpine routes worn next to skin.  Wondering if anyone has used one of these in Scottish winter?

Would you wear one with a bass layer then a hardshell over it for when it gets wet/windy.  Or bass layer, mid layer, smock, hardshell?  

Difficult to work out if I'm gunna cook with all these layers on, or would be better getting a traditional soft-shell!  We are looking to climb a mix of moving together and pitching.  

Thanks

I started out with a Montane Smock with just a base layer underneath. (Didn't bother with a shell on top) It worked fine for lower grade routes, where you mostly just keep moving.

But once I started climbing slightly higher grades and sitting on belays for longer I found that a layering system where I could adjust my layers much more easily, add a belay jacket etc worked much better.

That being said I get really cold and still haven't really worked out a system that keeps me warm once I start having to sit around on belays in winter. 

Used mine while winter climbing in Scotland a few years back and it was really good. Wore it with a long sleeve base layer, merino I think. Obvs I overheated on the walk in but it was fine at all other times.

For me the system worked fine in some pretty horrendous conditions. Never used a hardshell over it. 

I do the same as Elsier and it generally works fine in cold weather.

It's not so effective when the weather gets warmer and you get soaked walking back from a route that's washed away by torrential rain

Just so you know I am supported by Montane. I am guessing you are asking about the extreme smock? If so it is a brilliant winter climbing garment, and I wore one for Scottish winter for years, as did most of my partners. It works for moving together or pitching. Won’t  really work for full on speedy soloing or hillwalking if you are fit, you will get too hot. My suggestions are : don’t wear it on the walk in. For a pitching day put it in your pack and , as carry one belay jacket between you and your partner. Walk in in lighter stuff, base layer and wind proof most days, might need a waterproof on wet days, start off cold from the car but with a warm hat and gloves . At the kitting up spot strip off sweat soaked base layer and wind proof and put on extreme smock. If you are above the freezing line you don’t need a shell on top of the smock, but make sure you either have the extreme hood or a balaclava. If you are pitching lead and follow  in the extreme, and put the belay jacket on for any belays that will be more than 15 mins long, i.e. most. If moving together you won’t really need the belay jacket. All this assumes you are fit enough to keep moving most of the day, you eat enough , you don’t climb in the rain,  and you avoid climbing  in the teeth of gales. 

Thanks all, gunna pick myself up a standard waterproof to use if it gets a bit mental.  Love the smock. 

Used mine for quite a few years on Scottish MRT and would agree with the above - great when moving steadily. Not so great when hanging around, especially when wetted through by rain, even with hard shell thrown over the top. For those reasons I went back to layered system and belay jacket.

Brilliant level of comfort when moving. Wore mine with smelly Helly t-shirt as found venting was a little too extreme with no under layer.

Cheers

From my experience it is the perfect kit if you're a sweaty knacker in damp Scottish conditions. Key points have already been made but to summarise:

1) Don't wear on walk in

2) Wear without a base layer directly on the skin. Why? Because the venting is much more effective and you can dump heat easily when moving.

3) Bring a belay jacket to boost warmth if very cold though you probably only need this on prolonged stops.

4) I've never bothered with a waterproof - you would only want to use the smock if it's below freezing, otherwise it's too hot.

5) The velcro hood is a weakness in that it rips off easily in anger. Sew it on.

Leave the fish out of this.

There's always a plaice for a fish pun

I once shared an office with a Dr Pollack. We made a good team. 

Hmmm. So you can’t wear it on the walk in (too hot) or on a long belay (too cold) or if it’s wet. So basically it’s useless!

hahaha, what a typo lol

not montane smock, but buffalo big face shirt is my go to for winter climbing and ski-touring - so long as not raining!  Same pile/pertex idea, but I would have to say that the newer montane equivalents feel a bit better worn.  Depending on the weather I'll have the buffalo belay jacket too.  Normally wear the big face shirt next to the skin and nothing on-top.

Worst case I tend to find I'm cold if my partner leads the 1st pitch if it's been a hot walk-in.

It's very personal though - works for some, not for others.  Give it a try and see if it works for you (take a spare layer incase it doesn't!)

Cheers,

Stu

Thanks for the advice, it has saved me spending lots of money on a hardshell and getting good base layers instead. 

Was out in the Gorms recently and had tried going back to a layering system for a change, it was the first time I have been cold on the hill in ages. Will be going back to my buffalo system again. 

My sytem is Buffalo salopettes and Shirt with hood, and a Montane Pile pertex Jacket with full zip. Nothing more required.

Yes I’ve got one and used it for Scotland. 2015 Aladdin’s Butress, merino base layer, Montane smock and a belay jacket wrapped around. Belay jacket well needed. Otherwise routes on the move no worries.

Furiously waving arms, jumping around, squats. No one *really* stays warms on a belay no mater their system. (unless they haul the mother of all belay jackets up)

I wear a montane smock for the past four years as shown on my profile pic.

Works well for both ice climbing and skiing.  It will be in use today on a 3 pitch 3+

what you climbing today?  

Cascata Della Sole at Sottoguda.  It was ice in sunshine.  Temperature rise to 2 degrees. I wore a merino under the smock.  Got a bit sweaty in the sun but otherwise ok.