Attaching Via Ferrata Kit to Alpine Harness

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mysterion 17 Jan 2018

How should you attach a Via Ferrata Kit to a harness that has no belay loop (something like an Alpine Bod)?

1) Larksfoot directly to the harness? (sounds a bad idea, closes harness so three way loading of knot)

2) Larksfoot to the HMS carabiner usually used to close the harness? (sounds a bad idea, possible cross loading of carabiner)

3) Larksfoot to maillon? (sounds a better idea, but what shape/strength of maillon?)

4) Is a larksfoot actually needed if you can do a simple clip-in (larksfoot weaker but orients the VF kit?)

Lots of questions, I had a forum search but not really got anywhere

Post edited at 14:08
 Neil Williams 17 Jan 2018
In reply to mysterion:

5. Buy a less antiquated harness?

They aren't designed to attach to elderly designs of kit like that.

1
 kenr 17 Jan 2018

Obvious thing to do is . . .

Presumably this alpine harness comes with instructions for some "correct" method for how to attach a knotted loop of the climbing rope (for non-VF climbing): Either thru some structure(s) - (likely including the belt of the harness?). Or how to attach a locking kararbiner (which attached to the climbing rope).

So then just make a larksfoot of the VF lanyard follow the same path thru those structure(s) of the harness as the instructions for the rope (or for the karabiner).

If that doesn't look safe, try some other approach that does.

If you're going to do this hundreds of times, makes sense to search for some truly optimal long-term method - (or even better, get a second harness with a belay loop).

Ken

Post edited at 16:10
1
In reply to mysterion:

I'd go with 'buy a new harness' but if you are going to use what you've got I'd attache it via an aluminium D shaped maillon.

https://www.urbanrock.com/semi-circular-alloy-10mm/

Post edited at 16:52
mysterion 17 Jan 2018
In reply to mysterion:

Thanks, the usual UKC embarassment of riches.

I guess I have trouble with the whole larksfooting thing. The webbing loop on the VF kit is a sling basically, isn't it wrong to larksfoot a sling? Will just have to trust the VF kit manufacturer on that one. The maillon loadings are pretty close to HMS carabiner loadings so between them it is just a shape thing, and who knows how a fall might proceed. I'll have a look to see how the direct tie-in knot tends when I get the VF kit, maybe the VF kit webbing loop is no weaker than a belay loop anyway (back to efficacy of larksfooting again!)

Post edited at 20:36
In reply to mysterion:

A larks foot is ok on a via ferrata lanyard because the shock absorbing stitching will be deployed before there is enough force to impact the strength of the larks foot. It's the safest way to attach the lanyard to a belay loop.

In reply to mysterion:

Could you not simply create a loop of 9/10mm rope that would work like the carabiner, and larks foot to that?

 kenr 18 Jan 2018
In reply to mysterion:

> isn't it wrong to larksfoot a sling?

Guess that's what I get for skipping staff meetings.

. . . (Was it the one back in the second week November?)

So after everybody I know has been making a larksfoot with their slings . . .

. . . (for decades -- thinking that the breaking-strength of the slings we were using was so ridiculously over-redundant that even if the larksfoot reduced it by a substantial percentage, it just didn't matter) . . .

Now we find out (? some new study results announced ?) it was a mistake -- guess that explains all those reports of climbers dying when their slings broke

Post edited at 01:23
 proandras 18 Jan 2018
In reply to mysterion:

In case of a sling or rope, I guess, the three way load is not a problem. Technically, a tied-in climbing rope in under three way sterss too. Only biners and maillons are vulnarable to this, do not put them between the harness and the VF kit. (Cavers do, but it is static load, and they do not fall in it.)

Yes, you have to trust the manufacturer on the loop, but you have to trust the other part of the VF kit either.

 beardy mike 18 Jan 2018
In reply to mysterion:

The only problem you have is that larks footing to this style of nappy harness means that when you pull the larksfoot tight, it will pull the leg loogs and waist band together and make the harness less comfortable to wear. In terms of strength a larks foot is correct and fine, all other components in your harness system are also strong enough. So what I would suggest is that you tie yourself an auxilliary belay loop as per more modern bods out of a length of climbing rope using a double fisherman. Then larks foot to that. Metal systems will never be as appropriate for this as a fabric one unless it is a carabiner which is designed in an appropriate manner.

mysterion 18 Jan 2018
In reply to mysterion:

Thanks all. I had a go with a larksfooted sling standing in for the VF kit and the two parts of the harness overlap and close comfortably within a compact knot so I think I will go for the direct tie-in for a more all-round fabric to fabric loading with minimal linkages.

Post edited at 19:39

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