UKH

Hi,

I know the French are very strict about UK instructors not being able to take groups into mountain environments without there IML for walking or being a guide to take groups climbing but does anyone know the rules on taking a group bouldering in a non mountain environment and what qualification would be necessary? Or where i might be able to find this out?

Thanks in advance,

Tim

In reply to timmyhobby:

I don't think you'll have a problem. I've been out to Font with a school group and also seen other British schools out there, some of the UK school expedition companies (Outlook Expeditions) have at least advertised trips there in the past...

Can't see it being a problem, though will be interested in others opinions and experiences.

In reply to Sl@te Head:

Thanks Ian, This is my thought also but wanted some others views. I know they are super strict on activity's such as skiing

In reply to timmyhobby:

Anyone else know anything about this?

In reply to timmyhobby:

Hi,
In my experience of taking numerous groups bouldering in Font (corporate groups whilst working out of the INSEAD Business School) and also paddling trips to the French alps, there are a few considerations.
If the business was generated and invoiced etc in the UK (i.e UK clients and you are a UK company) then it is often ok, as not seen to be taking French business
As often the way, any laws etc are open to interpretation, for example French guys who I work with suggested we would be ok bouldering because we were doing a Corporate team build rather than a sporting activity, similar concept if it is a school group.
If you are in a very busy area where a lot of guides work it might be different but I would imagine they would be more interested in the alpine work.
Sorry if that seems a bit vague, but it is is!! PM me if you want some more info (if it is specifically Font I have some good French contacts there, same for Targasonne).

In reply to timmyhobby:

It's a question that you probably don't want to ask. France is the home of protectionism and excessive regulation after all.

Assuming that you're asking about being paid to take people bouldering (or any sport) then:

There's a summary from the FFME at:

http://www.ffme.fr/uploads/federation/documents/reglements/escalade/synthes...

For bouldering and single pitch climbing the situation is slightly more open to interpretation as generic sport diplomas are allowed as long as the person is competent:

"D’autre part, ces diplômes ne sont pas spécifiques à une activité sportive précise. S’agissant d’escalade, il convient de rappeler la nécessité de « la compétence de son titulaire en matière de sécurité des pratiquants et des tiers dans l'activité considérée."

School trips seem to be a special case as it falls under education regulation rather than being a sports instructor.

The legal bit is explained at:

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI00000...

To get a qualification recognised see:

http://www.sports.gouv.fr/services-pratiques/professionnels/article/Equival...

As mentioned in another post, as long as there's no "harm" to local interests then the law is unlikely to be enforced. I very much doubt that any of the UK/Swiss/German/Austrian/etc bouldering coaches who teach in France go through this process.

The only way to be 100% legal is to be a UIAGM guide as it's one of the few qualifications that the French have to accept.

In reply to EwanR:
I've taken groups bouldering in Fontainbleau as a volunteer instructor/group leader for CAF and was led to understand that I could do that without any qualifications as I wasn't being paid but that if I was I'd need to be a qualified 'monitor d'escalade' which I suspect equates to a UK MIC or MIA. Never checked if this was true but sounds plausible.

In reply to timmyhobby:

Thanks for all the great info, lots to look through now.

In reply to timmyhobby:

Hi Timmy

I hold the UK MIA, IML and kayaking awards, I now live full time in the French alps, I have gained recognition for all my UK award's, during this process I did a lot of research on the subject and had contact with all the sports unions, the french authorities and the EU it can be a bit of a mine field.

The laws for leading groups (for pay or reward) in adventure sports in France are quite clear you should hold a French recognition (carte professional) for that sport.
But how it is applied is not always so clear, some areas and some sports are more relaxed than others, as you mentioned skiing is a hot one.

if you like drop me a message with a bit of info about your trip or idea and I will give you the best advice I can.

cheers