UKH

What's the best way to lose weight for running?

I have a 50 miler in June (The Lakeland 10), which I'd like to not just struggle through, but enjoy a little. Alongside a more disciplined approach to training, I'd like to lose a bit of weight. I'm 5'10" and about 74kg (11st 10lb) - not fat, but certainly not racing weight. I suppose at best I'd aim to lose a stone.

Any tips on effective ways to do this? yes yes, I know - eat less, exercise more. The problem is, without clear goals, I lose interest. I eat healthily and can maintain a good weight, but struggle, as most people do, with will-power, so tend to exercise in order to 'undo' all the office chocolate and Thursday night beers.

Ideas so far that interest me are:
- Cutting out or reducing alcohol (to about 10 units a week, or just nothing)
- Doing the 5/2 diet - The apparent added benefits of light starvation also appeal to me
- Walking more rather than running (apparently better at burning fat?)

I'm just looking for inspiration. Any good books out there? lifestyle blogs people know of? Personal experiences? Interested to know what works for others.

Thanks, Ed

In reply to edunn:
Don’t lose weight for running, lose weight by running.

What is your current training, how many miles a week?

I would also add that I drink a lot less if I know I am out in the morning for a run, to a certain extent knowing I am running early evening stops me snacking in the afternoon.

In reply to edunn:

I'm not much of a runner, but my brother in law is and he swears by HIIT training. Thinks this is the most effective way of both fat burning and getting fit.
I don't do training, I do fun exercise, so I really don't fancy HIIT training.

In reply to The New NickB:

A good, non-training plan week (i.e. just ticking-over) would be 10 miles. A bad week would be zero. Peak training for ultras and the like would be 25 - 30 miles.

In reply to edunn:

knock wheat on the head and watch the weight fall off. In combination with the running you will lose half a stone in no time

In reply to edunn:

Last year I consciously dropped weight for events for the first time and it made a huge difference. I cut out bread, cut down on alcohol pretty much cut out breakfast during the week and did some fasted runs. Generally these were just a few K to work but I did a couple of longer runs in the afternoon having fasted from the previous night. Worked a treat but probably quite unhealthy and totally not sustainable!

In reply to edunn:

If you consider that 20 Miles a week extra is about 50,000 kcalories over 6 months, this equates to more than a stone, combine that with reduced alcohol intake and you will get there no problem.

25-30 Miles a week seems low for a 50 Mile ultra.

In reply to edunn:



I used to think like this, but in truth the two statements are mutually exclusive. Refined sugars are bad for you - cut them out of your diet completely (outside of training and racing fuel) and you will drop weight, improve your general energy levels and increase your chances of a long healthspan. It sounds daunting at first, but you only need "willpower" for about 8 weeks... after that you won't want to go back to the poisonous stuff





Never a bad thing

In reply to edunn:
My weight is stable around 10 stone, l assume it is because of regular exercise, as I don't really enter events I have a good constant level of exercise throughout the year, and mix it between running, cycling, swimming, & climbing (bouldering mainly). There is not a week without some exercise, over and above normal life. In those low weeks of exercise I wouldn't be surprised if your intake did not reduce by a similar amount.

In reply to DaveHK:

Thanks, good advice. Had mooted the no bread/pasta idea too. Looks like it could be a quick win. Fasted runs too - I've tried them in the past, but not enough to see real benefits.

Agree that not all of it is sustainable, but I wouldn't be looking for long-term solutions, just something to blitz the weight-loss in the early months of the year, before I settle into full-on ultra training.

In reply to edunn:

If you can face it, HIIT/tabata workouts in a fasted state (before breakfast) are really effective.

In reply to edunn:
A normal diet and more miles should be a good start. I'd agree your training seems rather light for a 50 - it's pretty light for 1500m!

If the overall problem is focus then enter some shorter races as more immediate targets. A couple Half's, some 10ks. Running a 5k parkrun every few weeks, or cross country , would likely have enormous benefits

In reply to The New NickB:


Sorry, that would be for a 33 mile ultra. Haven't done 50 yet, so would obviously step-up the weekly distance.

20 miles extra a week, seems a lot! Do you manage that yourself? What distance do you do? How do you fit it all in?

In reply to edunn:

If you want sustainable weight loss (maybe you just want short term gains?) don't cut out any food group/type. If you cut it out you miss it and end up craving it. Cut down portion sizes. The old trick of switching to smaller plates works for me.

In reply to edunn:

Which event is it, the Lakeland 10 is a walking challenge isn't it ?

Anyway, i am in the Lakeland 50 for July and am going to try and stick to a training program from Jan as i have been far from scientific in the past, i think looking at it i am going to be very thin and very tired...

Something loosely based around this:

https://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/50-miler-training-plancom

In reply to edunn:

I meant the 20 extra a week in terms of you going from 10 Miles a week to 30 Miles a week.

Personally, I try and use 40 Miles a week as base mileage, increasing that for specific goals. I’m doing a road marathon in May, I’m currently raising my mileage to around 60 a week by mid January to start an 18 programme that will see my mileage peak at around 80.

Time is an issue, but I am fairly lucky in terms of flexibility in my work and personal life. Realistically, I’m only training half as much as someone training properly for an Ironman. That is just me though, my climbing suffers, that is for sure.

In reply to edunn:

Similar situation to you at the start of this year.

So stopped drinking alcohol for 2 months. Didn't eat takeaway for at least 4 months. Stopped eating processed food and made everything myself, which I still do. Weight started dropping off pretty quickly and then increased when I upped the exercise (cycling approx 200km a week and running approx 50km a week)
Went from 88kg to 72kg within 6 months.

Try exercising before meals (fasted running I think it's called). It worked for me as it burns fat as apposed to carbo stores, 45mins max though I think I read.

12 month's later I'm still 75kg despite reducing the training, drinking a few beers every weekend and having the odd takeaway.

I suppose it's a lifestyle change really.

Good luck.

In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

That's Awesome! hats off to you.

In reply to edunn:

I lost weight by going paleo - basically cut out on heavy carbs, minimal sugar and no alcohol.

Spinach and eggs and bacon for breakfast
Salad with cheese/meat
Meat/fish and veg for tea

Really worked and I have kept if off since even though I eat heavy carbs again I don't eat much and have little sugar

Really helped my running - particulalry over long distance

Good luck in your race

In reply to edunn:

Another question what are

HIIT/tabata workouts and what would work for long distance running?

In reply to edunn:

As others have said, your mileage seems far too low to 'enjoy' an ultra of any distance. If I was training for a 50 miler, I'd be aiming to do a 20-25 mile run once each 'hard' week which probably translates to 40-45 mile hard weeks and 25 mile easy weeks (alternating). When I *was* training for ultras, I used to do a lot more than that.

Unless you have a lot of spare time on your hands, walking won't help at all - certainly not if you trade-out running miles.

I'd also look at you diet: The alcohol intake is going to make any weight loss a challenge. Try and stay alcohol-free during the week? I found that cutting down (not to zero) on bread made a bit difference. 5/2 work for some people (my wife), less so for others (me). Try it and see how you get on. But the main advice would be: 'smaller portions' and 'eat when you're hungry. Slowly and only as much as you need - not as much as you fancied'. My rule of thumb used to be to decide how much I wanted (based on current hunger level) and then put a third back.

One side benefit of HIT-style training is also that it suppresses appetite. Something to consider.

In reply to edunn:
I dropped 12kg this year on 5-2, was losing about .7-.8kg per week, more if i didn't drink any alchohol that week.

So I recommend the 5-2, keep training on fast days (but lighten it a little).

Recently I quit meat and that has given me a super stable weight where I am happy, so even if you don't want to lose the benefits of eating meat, maybe it's worth considering the portion size.

Edit: Raw numbers from 5-2, previously I was consistently increasing in weight, I don't do much cardio due to injuries:
Date KG
18/03/2017 90.20
25/03/2017 88.70
31/03/2017 88.50
07/04/2017 88.20
14/04/2017 87.00
26/04/2017 88.10
01/05/2017 87.50
08/05/2017 85.80
12/05/2017 85.10
19/05/2017 85.40
26/05/2017 84.90
02/06/2017 84.60
08/06/2017 82.80
09/06/2017 83.20
14/06/2017 82.10
23/06/2017 81.90
30/06/2017 80.90
07/07/2017 81.20
14/07/2017 80.60
21/07/2017 80.30
28/07/2017 79.30
10/08/2017 79.20
11/09/2017 78.20

In reply to iusedtoclimb:
HIIT or HIT is just what used to be known as 'intervals'. Repeated short duration efforts at a higher intensity. Originally they were considered good for increasing the speed at which you could run comfortably for a given length of time (as opposed to maintaining a given pace for longer). They also provide some variety to your running schedule (mentally useful) and allow you to do something useful on those days when you don't have enough time for a biggy. I used to do 5 min fast, 2 min slow repeated half a dozen times or so. 'Fast' is defined as whatever you can just maintain for 5 mins (with good style), 'slow' is still running, but recovering. These day it's probably a lot more precise (but not necessarily more fun). If it's all too regimented for you, look up 'fartlek'. Tabata? Not sure it's useful for ultras, but I have no real experience of doing them (too old).

In reply to Marek:

I only suggested tabata as useful for losing weight (well, fat), not necessarily as being applicable to ultras.

In reply to edunn:
The book Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald is good. Personally I have lost a bit of weight earlier in the year by having a light breakfast, banana mid morning, Huel for lunch (450cal) and then more or less eating what I want in the evening and running every day. Far from an ideal diet but I find it hard not to eat a nice meal at night and I find it easy to be hungry during the day so it works for me. Stuffing my face at night with collosal amounts of amazing food is pretty much the best thing ever as far as I'm concerned so I'd rather just cut back elsewhere if I'm trying to trim down. Took me about 3 months to lose a stone.

In reply to edunn:

Tabata is a specific protocol but sometimes used interchangeably with HIIT.
20s very hard, 10s rest, x8. Bang, all done in 4 mins.
There's a bit more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training

Completely opposite end of spectrum from the ultra-plod. They're good 'fun' and useful for developing mental strength - you'll want some of that

In reply to edunn:

Train fasted.

In reply to edunn:

For long races 40/50 miles races I use to run 25 then 30 and yes 40 miles (40 miles in the peak hills) say 7 hours.
It takes time to build up to the distance but when your up you can just do a long run now and then and I ran 70/100 a week. To reduce weight run long or run fast or both.

In reply to edunn:

I lost about 6kg between May and September this year by cutting out carbs at lunchtime, and the weight has stayed off. Much to my surprise I have learnt to like salads - and they don't have to be nasty naked salads either, I have salad dressing on mine, avocado, cheese, hummus (not all at once) - delicious. Also cut out casual chocolate and no longer miss it. I have not cut out booze but don't drink much.

Oh and as others have said, running seems to keep my weight down.

I think the trick to losing weight is to have a goal in mind and not to go hungry - just eat differently.

Enjoy!

In reply to edunn:

Read: racing weight by Matt Fitzgerald. I found it really interesting. Can buy of Dave McLeod website.
Lots of stuff. Eat well so perform better and burn off fat more.......

In reply to edunn:

Early morning runs and eat healthy. Fruit over cakes and no alcohol.

In reply to edunn:

Be careful work out your 'lean weight' I believe mine is 68kg and I am 5 10.5 height, not far from you. This is a stone what you are off now. I think it gets harder to lose more weight the closer you get to this target. I start struggling at 74 kg!! Take all advice with a pinch of salt unless you believe this also has an effect on your weight! remember there is a whole billion pound industry based on the understanding of psychology about to kick in on boxing day. Thanks for raising the issue though..its a reminder for those with targets next year to keep on track over Christmas (my target is Bob Graham and I'm declaring it to keep on track through reinforcing a belief system more than a fear of shame)

In reply to PCD:

How do you work out your lean weight?

In reply to BusyLizzie:

Matt Fitzgerald has written a whole book on that, but basically it is the case of getting a reasonably accurate body fat percentage and working out the required fat loss to achieve an ideal body weight / body fat percentage for you chosen sport, taking in to account gender and body type.

In reply to The New NickB:

Thanks, I will look into it.

In reply to edunn:

Hmm, seems the advice seems to be run more and drink less alcohol - along with watching carb intake.

How do you all manage to do this at this time of year?

In reply to edunn:
A few years ago I lost 14 kg in just over a year. I halved my alcohol consumption, dropped carbohydrates from my lunches and did a mixture of running, swimming and a bit of cycling, starting from a base of little regular exercise in the preceding two years. To begin with I did 9-10 exercise things a week, which normally included two 1 mile swims, and by the end the running took over and I was doing about 40 miles per week.

At that time, three things helped. One was the sight of me in a photo, which is what got me going, another was a goal, to do the Welsh 3000s, which I ticked after 10 months (plus a crazier goal to do BGR, which I attempted) and the last was that I recorded and measured everything in minute detail. At the time I did it on a humungous spreadsheet with all sorts of graphs, averages and totals. Now, I just let Strava do the work. It was very motivating to me to see the weight curve head on down. I have also learned though, that motivation by graph can work against you when you have left it for a while and know that their message won't be good.

Five and a half years later, the weight is still mostly off and the running is mostly still there. I had three years of big mileage in the 2000-2500 ish miles range, but then a poor year with injuries and now this year is better and I hope to hit 1600 miles.

In the big mileage years I would regularly do 50+ miles, week in week out, a lot of it off-road and with 200000 ish ft ascent thrown in. It just became a thing that I did. For a few months at that time, one thing that helped was to build it into my normal day. So, when we went down to one car I used to run 9 miles to meet my wife on her and my way back from work. It saved her some driving and kind of made me do the run.

I have never liked sugar or 'unhealthy' foods, but at that time I seemed to be able to eat whatever I wanted without putting on weight.

Now, my head is in a different place and I have many other things to do. I decided this year to set the bar lower, first at 20, which then quickly became 30 miles per week, and to get that done in short runs of 5-ish miles. I rarely run over 10 miles now but more often than not I do 35-40 miles per week and I try run in new places whenever I can. The idea was to lessen the mental barrier to going out and the longer goal and idea is that running will better help me keep weight off if I keep running. I have noticed many people train for a marathon or huge ultra then do little for ages afterwards. That won't help my waistline, I thought. Hence, what I do. Probably not good advice, though, if you are aiming for an ultra!

I don't do the spreadsheets any more and I am not in a club but I do enjoy and am motivated by my use of Strava.