Bear Grylls abseil advice

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 wydffart 29 Oct 2017
I know I shouldn't but I did watch the Bear Grylls show on ITV where he appeared to 1. abseil down a cliff using a single cam anchor, and 2. leave novice Anthony Joshua behind to sort out his own attachment and then follow over the cliff. I haven't really climbed since 1984 so am out of touch but surely this could encourage dangerous behaviour in beginners?
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 Mark Collins 29 Oct 2017
In reply to wydffart:

I agree, seems at odds with what I would expect from head scout. That said, he did say he'd put 2 cams in when he reached the base. I think what's really going on here though, is wanting to instill a sense of jeopardy within the viewer by appearing to show a lack of safe practise, and thereby prevent them from changing channel. My wish would be for jeopardy to be achieved without expending safety.
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In reply to Mark Collins:

> That said, he did say he'd put 2 cams in when he reached the base

Not to mention the hidden safety rope, backup belayer, etc.
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 Billhook 29 Oct 2017
In reply to wydffart:

It also may be the edited version. There were probably countless elf and safety staff sorting everything out for thim.
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 Sean Kelly 29 Oct 2017
In reply to wydffart:
He did actually mention using a second anchor as back-up. I imagine the back up for no top rope lower, is the old fashioned way of holding onto the bottom of the ab rope which he appeared to do.
i actually enjoyed the programme and thought AJ did very well although bricking it. Reverse the roles and how would you feel going into that ring last night....!
Post edited at 20:15
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Removed User 29 Oct 2017
In reply to Mark Collins:

> I think what's really going on here though, is wanting to instill a sense of jeopardy within the viewer by appearing to show a lack of safe practise, and thereby prevent them from changing channel.

Or perhaps realising that a fair number of viewers would stay watching in the hope they would see his single anchor fail?
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 AlisonS 29 Oct 2017
In reply to Removed User:

Just watching him now climbing mega desperate scary V Diff Commando Ridge with Boxer Anthony Joshua. His belaying technique leaves a lot to be desired.
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 jim jones 29 Oct 2017
In reply to AlisonS:

What? Just his belaying technique? ????
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 Neil Williams 29 Oct 2017
In reply to wydffart:

He's done worse - allegedly abseiling off a fig 8 shoved in a crack with Stephen Fry. Incredibly irresponsible particularly given that it would not have detracted from the show to have set it up properly (as I'm sure was done off-camera).
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 Jim Walton 30 Oct 2017
In reply to Neil Williams:

I've abseiled off a knotted prusik loop in a hammered in a crack for real 'cos it was all we had left. In the right situation it forms a very solid anchor.
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cb294 30 Oct 2017
In reply to Jim Walton:

> I've abseiled off a knotted prusik loop in a hammered in a crack for real 'cos it was all we had left. In the right situation it forms a very solid anchor.

Protection in Czech and Saxon sandstone almost entirely relies on this vague hope....

CB
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Removed User 01 Nov 2017
In reply to wydffart:

Worst was his episode on Skye a couple of years back when he supposedly abseiled using a deer antler jammed in a crack.
 Robert Durran 01 Nov 2017
In reply to Removed Userrabthecairnterrier:

> Worst was his episode on Skye a couple of years back when he supposedly abseiled using a deer antler jammed in a crack.

That actually sounds quite resourceful. Certainly better than staying put and eventually dying of starvation or hypothermia if no other anchor were available.
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 d_b 01 Nov 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

My stock line when I have a particularly sketchy anchor is "I've abbed off worse". Unfortunately most of the time it is true.


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 Andy Say 01 Nov 2017
In reply to AlisonS:

> Just watching him now climbing mega desperate scary V Diff Commando Ridge with Boxer Anthony Joshua. His belaying technique leaves a lot to be desired.

The boxing gloves wouldn't have helped, to be fair!
 Andy Say 01 Nov 2017
In reply to cb294:

> Protection in Czech and Saxon sandstone almost entirely relies on this vague hope....

> CB

But you've normally got a stonking great bolt to abseil off!
cb294 01 Nov 2017
In reply to Andy Say:

Sure, or you may a huge ring bolt if you have to bail before you reach the top, albeit not on all routes and you may even not get that far.
My point was that jammed knots of prusik type slings are regularly expected to hold a fall, which will cause much higher loads than abseiling. Of course the consequences of failure are typically much worse for an abseil anchor than for a piece of intermediate pro.
Nevertheless, abseiling from such an anchor may look weird if you are not used to it, but is not as adventurous or risky as it may look.

That said, having learned to climb in Frankenjura (where it is either bolts or metal pro in solid rock), it took me years to trust my own knotted slings on weetabix sandstone.

CB
 DerwentDiluted 01 Nov 2017
In reply to wydffart:

So Bear Grylls provokes lively discussion with reference to his selection of items to which he secures his ropes for abseils.

I think I can summarise.

W@nker anchor rancour.
 Kemics 01 Nov 2017
In reply to cb294:

More hilarious are the “oofers” I’m sure That’s what my friends called them - the cams made out of old bits of recycled inner tube? They were absolutely convinced they could hold a lead fall in a parallel sided crack. Madness! Although I did see a guy fall on to a monkey fist knot in an offwidth and it held

...and then they all say “oh you English do the really crazy dangerous trad climbing”
cb294 01 Nov 2017
In reply to Kemics:

"Oofers" is good, they are called UFOs or Uforings

https://www.camp4.de/restday/uforing-set.html

I have a full set, and they are excellent. Have not fallen on one in anger, but did a protected drop test at bolted sandstone crag, and they held without slipping around the tiniest of constrictions. Much easier to place reliably than monkey fists, figure of eights on a doubled climbing rope, or other such specialist sling knots.

I would imagine that they would also be ideally suited for gritston climbing, as they definitely cause less rock abrasion than cams. I should bring my set next time I find the time to go climbing in the UK, and give it a try.

They are of course heavier, have a narrower camming range, but in terms of holding power on sandstone or soft gritstone they are no worse than regular cams. In fact, there are placements, e.g. behind flakes, where I would definitely prefer an "oofer"!

CB

In reply to Robert Durran:

> Certainly better than staying put and eventually dying of starvation or hypothermia if no other anchor were available

I'm sure the helicopter and Skye's finest hotel were on standby.
 Phil79 01 Nov 2017
In reply to Jim Walton:

> I've abseiled off a knotted prusik loop in a hammered in a crack for real 'cos it was all we had left. In the right situation it forms a very solid anchor.

Of course, loads of us have abseiled off s*** anchors, or anchors that perhaps look s**t, etc. but we've usually done it from a position of experience (or just desperation!).

But that's missing the point I think, as BG TV is not really made for climbers, but made to entertain the public. My worry would be some novice thinking it is perfectly acceptable to ab off one nut or a crap cam (when clearly loads of decent gear exists, which was actually used anyway, but just not shown on camera), and then going out and doing just that to potentially dire consequences.

It should at least have some kind of disclaimer at the end of the show to say "rock climbing is dangerous, get proper instruction, etc". Bit irresponsible, especially as he is chief scout!
 Robert Durran 01 Nov 2017
In reply to Phil79:

> It should at least have some kind of disclaimer at the end of the show to say "rock climbing is dangerous, get proper instruction, etc". Bit irresponsible, especially as he is chief scout!

Along with the disclaimer that eating shit and just generally being a complete knobber is potentially dangerous?

 d_b 01 Nov 2017
In reply to cb294:

I am finding it hard to visualise how they are used. Passively like nuts, or something like a tricam?

I do like the look of them though, as I'm a fan of esoteric gear.
cb294 01 Nov 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

The centre is a triangle made of tightly coiled and sewn tape, to which the cord is attached. The outer segment is another layer of tape covered with a rubber sheet more akin to a climbing shoe sole than a bicycle inner tube. This outer layer generates excellent friction on sandstone or gritstone.

You place these things like a large chock, and set them with a brief pull to engage friction between the outer layer and the sides of the crack. If the cord becomes loaded in case of a fall, the inner wedge is forced down, actively pushing the friction generating layer outwards against the rock.

Traditionally, a similar effect was achieved with a flattened figure of eight knot on a bight, which you can place so that the lowest loop catches against a constriction. Load the bight, and it will partially roll the knot, causing it to widen and jam.

The Ufos are much more conveniently placed, can expand by a couple of cm (from medium sizes onwards), and have the friction rubber outer layer. For me, it made a large difference, even though I will still place fig 8s and monkey fists as well, especially on routes where I have he placements dialled.

For example, in Bielatal there is one particular route of maybe 10m length. I normally protect the start with one very small monkey's fist made of 5mm cord. The next bit is a hand to fist size corner crack protectable by two knotted slings made of 11mm rope, and one absolutely bomb proof large monkey fist (made again from 11mm rope) that goes in just before the last section of 2.5m of ugly, flaring offwidth. This long was the last bit of pro, but now I can place a good, large UFO close to the top, protecting the beached whale topout.

CB
 d_b 01 Nov 2017
In reply to cb294:

Thanks for that explanation, I think I understand now. I don't think I'm up to many of the routes in Saxony but it looks like an excellent piece of kit to confuse my climbing partners
Longshanks 05 Nov 2017
In reply to wydffart:

Anyone who advises someone to drink their own urine definitely cannot be trusted!!
 GrahamD 06 Nov 2017
In reply to Longshanks:

They might just be taking the piss

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