UKH

Im looking for a warm jacket and i don't really know the benefits or attributes these two materials have, I've not been climbing long but i would like to, one day do some easy Scottish mountaineering, so whatever i get it would have to suit damp conditions.

I like the look of the Jottnar hydrophobic down jackets, particularly the Fenrir, are these suited to a Scottish winter or will it be sopping in no time?

Thanks.

In reply to GoneFishing111:

If you are buying one with the potential use in mind being Scottish Winter, then just buy a Mountain Equipment Fitzroy or equivalent. If you are just buying a jacket for kicking about the crag, then buy a big cozy down jacket, hydrophobic is a plus but obviously not essential.

In reply to GoneFishing111:

The Fenrir is a nice jacket but not really a traditional belay jacket. https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=6945

In reply to GoneFishing111:

As above - an ME Fitzroy, or a PHD Alpha http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/alpha-belay-primaloft-insulated-jacket

In reply to GoneFishing111:

In general, down is warmer for its weight than synthetic. However, if it gets wet it becomes very heavy and loses any ability to insulate. Synthetic is not so warm for the weight but tolerates being wet a lot better.

The lines have been blurred a bit recently by the now common use of hydrophobic down and by development of better synthetic fibres. But, as above, if you want to stay warm at the crag, go for a snuggly down jacket. If think you are going to need it to keep functioning when you have been in spindrift all day and you have just belayed your partner while they hack through a cornice, go for synthetic!

In reply to GoneFishing111:

I have never tested my hydrophobic down jacket in the rain but i think it only helps so much. For somewhere like Scotland i would pick synthetic every time.

In reply to TobyA:

What makes a jacket a belay jacket? I was hoping to get one jacket that would do both, so it looking like i will have to get a synthetic, no big deal i suppose.

In reply to GoneFishing111:


Andy K's take on this: https://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/the_belay_jacket

My feeling is that essentially it is an insulation layer, usually synthetic, that is light enough to carry in addition to whatever you usually wear and big enough to chuck on over everything else.

I think what Toby meant about the Fenrir is that it isn't really cut to be chucked on over the top of everything else like this. I don't think there is anything to stop you buying one jacket that can act as a belay jacket and as insulation for cragging or whatever, but the Fenrir is perhaps not that jacket.

In reply to GoneFishing111:

If it's for year round use in the UK you can safely assume you're going to get caught in unforecast torrential rain, at least once. Synthetic is the only way to go, for the super-warm end of the spectrum Black Diamond do some nice stuff, but generally speaking it's more about what fits you and your layering system.

In reply to GoneFishing111:
I got the Montane Flux as a comparatively cheaper option, I really like it. Its Very warm, the down is well distributed, compacts quite well, it seems pretty light, fairly wind and water proof.

The only thing I don't like about it is the cuffs are Velcro (Useless when snow gets in them) and the hood adjusters are a bit fiddly.

Its £70

In reply to GoneFishing111:

As others have said, get synthetic if you're going to use it for Scottish winter (another vote for the ME Fitzroy from me). Hydrophobic down might help somewhat but as I found out benighted on the side of a mountain in the Alps in a snowstorm, it will still get very wet and very cold! A day of Scottish winter climbing usually manages to replicate those conditions pretty well...

In reply to Connorh:


I don't think it can be a Flux you have because they're not down-filled, they're synthetic. (Primaloft)

In reply to GoneFishing111:

Generally speaking down is lighter for the same weight of fill as synthetic, will last longer than synthetics after repeated compression and is more compressible.
That said in Britain i seldom take a down jacket unless i know its going to be well below freezing all day or there is practically no chance of rain.
If youre only getting one jacket definitely go synthetic or youre stuffed when you need a warm jacket for the wet day.
Hydrophobic down is a great innovation and dries faster tho i still dont think it compares to something like primaloft in damp or wet conditions.
ME fitzroy is a great bit of kit and fairly bombproof. Plenty more choices too. Patagoina DAS parka if you can get one...a bit bulky but a total lifesaver in bad conditions. Arcteryx nuclei fl if youre after a really lightweight and fairly warm (for 300g jackets) jacket

Good luck...

In reply to GoneFishing111:

I use a Fitzroy for climbing days but a Phd down jacket for multiday wild camps. 2 different products for 2 different uses. The Fitzroy could be used for the camps but naturally the weight is an issue for that.