UKH

Hello everyone!

I've been convinced by friends to try some 10K runs. I'm doing the Cheshire 10K in November and the Tromso 10K in June (mainly as an excuse to go to Norway and climb there...)

I'm having trouble deciding on where to put running into my weekly schedule, and I'm worried about overdoing it because I've had ankle issues/knee issues previously (all seem OK now..)

My usual week looks like:

Monday - bouldering (hard, V5-V6)
Tuesday - bouldering (very easy, helping beginners, don't climb very much as they work V1-V2 range)
Wednesday - bouldering (medium, volume at around V3-V4)
Thursday - rest day
Friday - either bouldering (hard, V5-V7) or routes (e.g. 6b - 7a range)

Weekends are variable, but can be something like:
Saturday - hiking (e.g. Glyders) or bouldering outdoors
Sunday - dependent on weather (since I hate rain)- long easy multi-pitch in Wales or single pitch Peaks, or easy climbing indoors.

Would running in the mornings before work (lecturing) give me enough time to rest before climbing? Or do I sacrifice some climbing days? Ideally I'm aiming for a sub 50 10K. I'm struggling with endurance (as can be expected with how much bouldering I do...). As an idea, last week I ran 2.5 miles at 8.55 p/mile pace, but struggling with breathing and motivation to go further!

Thanks for any input!
Kath

In reply to xbraddersx:

Hi Bradders, when you go climbing in Norway what do you want to achieve in terms of routes, difficultly, style etc.

BW
A

In reply to alx:
Hello!

No aims in particular, it's just a holiday with friends. Probably to have fun!

(Though I'd like to be leading at E1 by then, but need to continue building trad experience there)

In reply to xbraddersx:

You will need to run at least 3 times a week to see any improvement. Shouldn't be any problem recovering to climb in the evenings, but the accumulation of effort over a sustained period may be an issue.

In reply to xbraddersx:

Try it and see. No one here knows your level of fitness better than you. Give it a shot and if it doesn't work, try something different.


Quite possibly, if you do want to improve your running. When I was climbing and running, I'd climb 3 days a week, run 3 days a week and have a rest day. When you get fitter*, it'll be easier to have days when you do both, but if you're just starting your running, it'll take a while to build up to it.


You need to be doing just over 8 minutes a mile to do a sub-50 10k. I reckon most fit people should be able to manage that, although the evidence of my own running club and races I go to suggests I'm wrong. However, it's a decent target, but one to move towards gradually. You've certainly got time to make some fairly decent improvements. For the time being, I'd concentrate on just getting out and running, increasing your distances gradually. As you get fitter, you'll find it easier to improve your pace, but if the furthest you run so far is 2.5 miles, you've got a bit of work to do before you start thinking about pace.

*When I say fitter, I mean running fitness - you obviously have some decent basic level of fitness from your climbing and hiking.

In reply to xbraddersx:

I'd say the most important thing is not to suddenly ramp up the running miles or pace. It's the fastest way to get injured. Maybe start with 2 runs a week - a decent challenge sometime during the weekend to suit your schedule and maybe a short 'loosener' during the week, which could become faster and harder as you get used to it. Could probably find time one evening as it's really only 20-30 mins of effort, if you didn't want to get up early. Then after a month or two you'll be in a much better position to know whether you want to add more sessions per week and when.

In reply to xbraddersx:

If your body is suited to running first thing you should be able to double up with bouldering in the evening without too much of a hit. You've got a ton of grades in hand between V6 and your lead aspiration of E1, so you could trade some of the bouldering for a run anyway (or swap for leading). Usual advice - build up slowly, add some distance gradually and don't be a slave to the watch. Get up to distance, bolt the speed on. If you're anywhere N Cheshire you'd be welcome to join the Helsby gang any Mon or Wed. Keep it fun.

The other posters hit it on the head, bouldering V6/V7 is pretty good base for climbing E1, could be skill based stuff your missing out on? That would be less demanding and give you more time to follow what Nick and the team have said about running targets.

In reply to xbraddersx:

Well you don"t say how much running you already do, if none or very little it might explain how you felt during/after your run. Build up slowly to prevent injury to joints/ tendons.

In reply to xbraddersx:

3 days of running, 3 days of climbing and you manage both E1 and a sub 50-min 10 k no trouble. Especially if you have 10 months to do it in. If you can boulder volume at V3-4 you can probably manage E1 already, technically.

In reply to xbraddersx:

Thank you everyone for your replies it's been really encouraging to read.

Re: bouldering level, yes - technically I can do difficult moves. But I lack confidence and experience and am trying to take it slowly, because I want to enjoy myself without being too focused on the grades. I like bouldering indoors and tbh moving away from that is proving difficult!

Today I ran 3.2 miles in 8:50 min/mile so getting there!

I'd suggest trying to get to 3x30 mins running per week and do that for a few weeks before thinking about pace.

Those could be good post-climbing recovery runs (ie the morning after a climbing session), if you are moderate about the length of the climbing session (2hrs or less phaps). I find running the day *before* climbing saps a lot of core tension and oomph (I had a terrible outdoor climb the day after a hilly 12k training run).

Also, it's often a better idea IMO to do 15 mins running and walk for 5 minutes then another 15', if half an hour is a struggle. Or even run 5'/ walk 2' or similar intervals to get to the total run time. The problem with the struggle to get the time/distance is the inevitable degradation in form is more likely to injure unaccustomed lower limb joints. A short walk break resets the form; also makes the whole process less miserable For same reasons, I would try and stay aerobic in the base phase, meaning if you're struggling for breath then walk a bit even if you're not doing the walk/run thing.

I say this having learnt the hard way: still can't run after my first half marathon in Sept last year. Managed a 4:37/km pace but frankly overdid it and fubar-ed my foot's plantar tendon. It felt fine on the day ironically, but flared up a week later. Hopefully a helpful warning that running is hugely repetitive compared to climbing, so you can avoid that fate!

In reply to xbraddersx: hi, as a runner whos started climbing id say that running before i climb at any point in the day seems to really hurt my climbing. I tend to run fairly hard and the knock on is that my climbing is rubbish at night...and my feet are generally uncomfortable!
Running wise go easy and build up slowly...generally most advice is usually increase by 10% a week in volume. Listen to your body tho, a bit of rest when you have a niggle may let it recover and you wont loose much. Running through a minor niggle can lead to a more serious injury, more time out and less fitness ultimately.
I now run once a week, do one or two fast hill walk/jogs a week and climb once or twice a week...(2hrs usually on auto belay 500-700m ascent). I can run ok off this training and I seem to be steadily improving my climbing too. I'd climb more outside or with partners but having an 18 month old child means im limited when i can get out and for how long so indoors on auto belay means i can get a lot of climbing done fairly ti e efficiently. I usually get a hill run/walk in after one of the evening climb sessions amd luckily running after climbing seems to suit me better than the other way round.
Obviously if run then climb works for you then even better.

Good luck and hope this was helpful.

In reply to Pipecleaner:

Hi Pipe,

I do a lot of gymnastics, what you are saying matches what we do. We stagger our sessions to work on skill/technique first when you are fresh then finish with simpler strength or endurance based stuff at the end when.

In reply to xbraddersx:
According to your profile your 26.
You should be running every day, climbing every day and partying every day!
Somewhere in your schedule you might have to show your face at work.
There's some excellent advice on this thread, good luck with your climbing/running.