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I've heard there has been a huge rockfall on La Grivola, this means there are now three alpine routes I have climbed that are no longer possible, most probably all due to climate change: Herbetet East Ridge, NNE La Grivola, Ciarforon N Face (OK, just about possible but very different). Anyone got more of an anti-Midas touch?
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In reply to MG:
South-East Pillar, a fine HVS on Fall Bay Buttress on the Gower. I did it in 1969; it fell down about three years later.
South-East Pillar, a fine HVS on Fall Bay Buttress on the Gower. I did it in 1969; it fell down about three years later.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
How about routes you've put up, that fell down before even getting a second ascent? Probably several of those for me in Pembroke!
How about routes you've put up, that fell down before even getting a second ascent? Probably several of those for me in Pembroke!
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In reply to john arran:
John, the only routes I've ever put up were in a quarry in S Wales that sees so little traffic that it's now more or less disappeared under the vegetation Actually, I put up about four scary routes on Daren Fawr north of Merthyr ... very loose, but I think still standing. An established route that was falling down while we were doing it was Angel's Eye at Wintour's Leap. The second pitch is now completely different.
John, the only routes I've ever put up were in a quarry in S Wales that sees so little traffic that it's now more or less disappeared under the vegetation Actually, I put up about four scary routes on Daren Fawr north of Merthyr ... very loose, but I think still standing. An established route that was falling down while we were doing it was Angel's Eye at Wintour's Leap. The second pitch is now completely different.
In reply to MG:
Off the top of my head:
Bonatti Pillar, Dru.
Horrorshow, Dodman Point.
Controlled Burning, Lunday.
There must be a few more though?
Off the top of my head:
Bonatti Pillar, Dru.
Horrorshow, Dodman Point.
Controlled Burning, Lunday.
There must be a few more though?
In reply to MG:
We used to top rope the cliffs at Hastings in the early 1980s
Very unstable even then, and no longer advisable!
http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2014-01-03/video-cliff-collapses-in...
Hounds Head Buttress at Tremadog. I climbed it twice in the 1960s/70s. First time it had a nice jamming crack. The second time, about 10 years later, this had become a chimney you could get into.
It was subsequently dynamited.
We used to top rope the cliffs at Hastings in the early 1980s
Very unstable even then, and no longer advisable!
http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2014-01-03/video-cliff-collapses-in...
Hounds Head Buttress at Tremadog. I climbed it twice in the 1960s/70s. First time it had a nice jamming crack. The second time, about 10 years later, this had become a chimney you could get into.
It was subsequently dynamited.
Post edited at 10:26
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In reply to MG:
This is a bit spooky, Martin. I was adding routes to my logbook yesterday to replace my worn out, over thumbed diaries. I spent a good part of that time trying to locate a handful of my own routes in Pembroke only to find that they'd ceased to be. Then woke up this morning wondering how many more might have disappeared... only to find your thread.
This is a bit spooky, Martin. I was adding routes to my logbook yesterday to replace my worn out, over thumbed diaries. I spent a good part of that time trying to locate a handful of my own routes in Pembroke only to find that they'd ceased to be. Then woke up this morning wondering how many more might have disappeared... only to find your thread.
In reply to MG:
Formula One on Lundy - https://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=53068
And hadn't climbed on, but walked over this https://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=290341
Formula One on Lundy - https://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=53068
And hadn't climbed on, but walked over this https://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=290341
In reply to jon:
Well....something has apparently happened on the Aig. Noire too - have you climbed that?
Well....something has apparently happened on the Aig. Noire too - have you climbed that?
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Presumably slowly? I think have the a pitch below you collapse into dust would be the ultimate "collapse tick"!
> An established route that was falling down while we were doing it
Presumably slowly? I think have the a pitch below you collapse into dust would be the ultimate "collapse tick"!
In reply to john arran:
Hmmm, a few for me too, John. The best was probably this one, Equilibrium Equilibrium (E5 6a) at St Govan's. At least Shark, Seb and Mike Owen got the chance to do it as well! I'm slightly consoled to see that the storm took out Pat's routes either side of it, so I'm not alone!
In fact, talking of Pat's routes, I did Earth Rim Roamer II shortly before its demise, too... a life (and underpants) changing route, if ever ther was one!
> How about routes you've put up, that fell down before even getting a second ascent? Probably several of those for me in Pembroke!
Hmmm, a few for me too, John. The best was probably this one, Equilibrium Equilibrium (E5 6a) at St Govan's. At least Shark, Seb and Mike Owen got the chance to do it as well! I'm slightly consoled to see that the storm took out Pat's routes either side of it, so I'm not alone!
In fact, talking of Pat's routes, I did Earth Rim Roamer II shortly before its demise, too... a life (and underpants) changing route, if ever ther was one!
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Was that the one that took a slightly widening crack a few feet from the right arête of the buttress? When we did it Steve Beresford told me it was called (maybe wrongly) Bonington's Route. I believe it's now an arête...
> South-East Pillar, a fine HVS on Fall Bay Buttress on the Gower. I did it in 1969; it fell down about three years later.
Was that the one that took a slightly widening crack a few feet from the right arête of the buttress? When we did it Steve Beresford told me it was called (maybe wrongly) Bonington's Route. I believe it's now an arête...
In reply to jon:
Yes, a crack/groove just left of the crest, IIRC. And, yes, Bonington did do the first ascent.
> Was that the one that took a slightly widening crack a few feet from the right arête of the buttress? When we did it Steve Beresford told me it was called (maybe wrongly) Bonington's Route. I believe it's now an arête...
Yes, a crack/groove just left of the crest, IIRC. And, yes, Bonington did do the first ascent.
In reply to MG:
Not me, guv. Never 'eard of it.
> Well....something has apparently happened on the Aig. Noire too - have you climbed that?
Not me, guv. Never 'eard of it.
In reply to jon:
Square (cut) bay in Pembroke - TBH I was bloody lucky it didn't fall down when I was climbing it!
Square (cut) bay in Pembroke - TBH I was bloody lucky it didn't fall down when I was climbing it!
Post edited at 10:46
1
In reply to MG:
I was belayed in the cave while Tim James led that pitch. Several huge blocks the size of coffins came down (past the cave mouth) while he was nearing the top of the pitch, and when I got to him he was on a hanging belay in a shallow yellow, sandy scoop – the whole belay ledge had gone while he was standing on it. I think there was another huge rockfall a few years later that removed most of the arete below that, which was a pile of tottering blocks when we did it.
> Presumably slowly? I think have the a pitch below you collapse into dust would be the ultimate "collapse tick"!
I was belayed in the cave while Tim James led that pitch. Several huge blocks the size of coffins came down (past the cave mouth) while he was nearing the top of the pitch, and when I got to him he was on a hanging belay in a shallow yellow, sandy scoop – the whole belay ledge had gone while he was standing on it. I think there was another huge rockfall a few years later that removed most of the arete below that, which was a pile of tottering blocks when we did it.
1
In reply to MG:
I've just looked at the picture of Angel's Eye in the UKC gallery:
The Angel's Eye (HVS 5b)#photos
... and the climber is immediately below where the arete was when we did it. It seems that a huge amount of rock has gone, because I have absolutely no recollection of there being a big overhang like that.
I've just looked at the picture of Angel's Eye in the UKC gallery:
The Angel's Eye (HVS 5b)#photos
... and the climber is immediately below where the arete was when we did it. It seems that a huge amount of rock has gone, because I have absolutely no recollection of there being a big overhang like that.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
I love the way when you click on that link, the photo comes up with the caption 'moved permanently'!
> And hadn't climbed on, but walked over this https://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=290341
I love the way when you click on that link, the photo comes up with the caption 'moved permanently'!
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In reply to MG:
I think you mean "change", not "climate change". Catastrophic change is normal after orogenic phases. Taking a long perspective, mountains are all trying to get to the sea as sediment.
> I've heard there has been a huge rockfall on La Grivola, this means there are now three alpine routes I have climbed that are no longer possible, most probably all due to climate change: Herbetet East Ridge, NNE La Grivola, Ciarforon N Face (OK, just about possible but very different). Anyone got more of an anti-Midas touch?
I think you mean "change", not "climate change". Catastrophic change is normal after orogenic phases. Taking a long perspective, mountains are all trying to get to the sea as sediment.
2
In reply to Dave Cumberland:
You think wrong.
Incidentally something else I saw this summer for the first time is the (really, really) huge moraine extending from the end of the Aosta valley tens of kilometres into the Italian plain. A result of climate change (in this instance not man made) from various ice-ages. Nothing orogenic going on. Worth looking out for from the Autostrada.
> I think you mean "change", not "climate change". Catastrophic change is normal after orogenic phases. Taking a long perspective, mountains are all trying to get to the sea as sediment.
You think wrong.
Incidentally something else I saw this summer for the first time is the (really, really) huge moraine extending from the end of the Aosta valley tens of kilometres into the Italian plain. A result of climate change (in this instance not man made) from various ice-ages. Nothing orogenic going on. Worth looking out for from the Autostrada.
1
In reply to MG:
Several routes in Priestcliffe were falling down as they were climbed. Phallic Symbol? fell over the day after I did it. Just about every other route in there was tottering.
Several routes in Priestcliffe were falling down as they were climbed. Phallic Symbol? fell over the day after I did it. Just about every other route in there was tottering.
In reply to MG:
The top of Aoraki/ Mount Cook fell off the year after we climbed it, now 30m lower.
Bonatti pillar, hardly suprised by this going by themassive fracture lines when we did it.
The top of Aoraki/ Mount Cook fell off the year after we climbed it, now 30m lower.
Bonatti pillar, hardly suprised by this going by themassive fracture lines when we did it.
In reply to MG:
Have you got any local geomorphology reference for this. I am not looking to be smart. I travel up and down that valley a lot. Sure there are lots of moraines (and the local authority is always shifting stuff around), but beyond Forte di Bard, how does this happen?
Very genuinely interested
Have you got any local geomorphology reference for this. I am not looking to be smart. I travel up and down that valley a lot. Sure there are lots of moraines (and the local authority is always shifting stuff around), but beyond Forte di Bard, how does this happen?
Very genuinely interested
In reply to johncook:
It's exactly the same for many routes at Blackchurch in Devon. You never do the same route twice there ha-ha
> ....fell over the day after I did it. Just about every other route in there was tottering.
It's exactly the same for many routes at Blackchurch in Devon. You never do the same route twice there ha-ha
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In reply to MG:
Pretty much every ice route that I have climbed has subsequently fallen down the same year...
Quite a few routes on chalk. Particularly after heavy prolonged rains. There used to be some great overhanging walls at Saltdean that are now gone.
Pretty much every ice route that I have climbed has subsequently fallen down the same year...
Quite a few routes on chalk. Particularly after heavy prolonged rains. There used to be some great overhanging walls at Saltdean that are now gone.
1
In reply to MG:
Conscientious Objector (1987) and Zodiac (2000) on the solid St Govans Head. Not sure if latter is still climbable or in part (as its a traverse).
Conscientious Objector (1987) and Zodiac (2000) on the solid St Govans Head. Not sure if latter is still climbable or in part (as its a traverse).
In reply to aostaman:
Have a look here
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/248478969_fig2_Fig-2-Geologic-map-of-th...
Once you spot it, it is very obvious and staggeringly large! It starts someway down from Forte di Bard - imagine a huge glacier splurging out from the main Aosta valley onto the plain and this is what you would expect! Also some signs on the autstrada, I think before the Milan turnoff.
Have a look here
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/248478969_fig2_Fig-2-Geologic-map-of-th...
Once you spot it, it is very obvious and staggeringly large! It starts someway down from Forte di Bard - imagine a huge glacier splurging out from the main Aosta valley onto the plain and this is what you would expect! Also some signs on the autstrada, I think before the Milan turnoff.
Post edited at 15:37
In reply to john arran:
We created a HVS 5a in Whitwick quarry in 1982 (Blue Streak). You'd need to be a caver now to do it.
> How about routes you've put up, that fell down before even getting a second ascent? Probably several of those for me in Pembroke!
We created a HVS 5a in Whitwick quarry in 1982 (Blue Streak). You'd need to be a caver now to do it.
In reply to MG:
Yankee Doodle (E2 5b), Public Enemy (E5 6b), Fandango (E1 5b) and at least one first and only Culm ascent.
Yankee Doodle (E2 5b), Public Enemy (E5 6b), Fandango (E1 5b) and at least one first and only Culm ascent.
In reply to MG:
My first ever tech 8 winter route (although I didn't lead) was Nymph , right of Parallel Gully B on Lochnagar. Now just a huge rockfall scar.
My first ever tech 8 winter route (although I didn't lead) was Nymph , right of Parallel Gully B on Lochnagar. Now just a huge rockfall scar.
1
In reply to MG:
Impressive - it's extremely obvious when you know where to look (satellite view), but not so obvious at ground level, I would guess. Unless you are a geologist with a lot of spare time!
> Have a look here
Impressive - it's extremely obvious when you know where to look (satellite view), but not so obvious at ground level, I would guess. Unless you are a geologist with a lot of spare time!
In reply to jon:
I assume Equilibrium is now in here somewhere. https://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=297363
I assume Equilibrium is now in here somewhere. https://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=297363
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In reply to JimR:
Deer Bield Buttress. Surprised nobody's mentioned it.
Just waiting for Overhanging Bastion and North Crag Eliminate to join the list...
Deer Bield Buttress. Surprised nobody's mentioned it.
Just waiting for Overhanging Bastion and North Crag Eliminate to join the list...
3
1
In reply to MG:
Parallel B Gully, Lochnagar
Bonatti Pillar, Dru
Rimmon Route, Troll Wall
They were the best!
Parallel B Gully, Lochnagar
Bonatti Pillar, Dru
Rimmon Route, Troll Wall
They were the best!
In reply to John2:
Hmmm, I guess so. But now somewhat déséquilibré, I fear.
> I assume Equilibrium is now in here somewhere. https://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=297363
Hmmm, I guess so. But now somewhat déséquilibré, I fear.
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2
In reply to MG:
I did a couple of routes in Warton Main on my 18th birthday, don't think one of them survived for my next birthday. I see Gouffle Connection is still listed at VS - thought that had changed?
I did a couple of routes in Warton Main on my 18th birthday, don't think one of them survived for my next birthday. I see Gouffle Connection is still listed at VS - thought that had changed?
In reply to Andy Long:
I was competing with a mate on 'Hard Rock' ticks and I did Deer Bield Buttress (and he hadn't), the year before it fell down. I shouldn't laugh....
I was competing with a mate on 'Hard Rock' ticks and I did Deer Bield Buttress (and he hadn't), the year before it fell down. I shouldn't laugh....
1
In reply to MG:
The VS pitch of Terrier's Tooth at Chair Ladder fell down the year after we climbed it..
The VS pitch of Terrier's Tooth at Chair Ladder fell down the year after we climbed it..
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