UKH

Any legal folks out there? I need some advice.

I recently sold my car privately. Sold as seen, with a contract advising just that.The buyer came, saw and decided to buy the car. 3 weeks after the guy bought it off me the engine has developed a major fault. I knew nothing of this supposed fault and only just had it MOT'd before selling it.

What makes this more difficult is that I agreed to let him pay for the car in instalments (he is a mate and I did write up a contract for this) He has made the initial payment of £1000 but still owes £1100 and wont pay any more.
He is now either wants a refund and wants to return the car or is happy to keep the car as long as he doesn't have to pay anymore.

From what I have found online, unless I have blatantly lied about the condition of the car or what I know about the car he cannot do anything legally. From what I have read the car must work, meet the legal requirements for being driven on public roads, and be owned by the seller. All of which were true at the time of sale. Refund/repair rights as far as I can see only apply when buying from a dealer.

The buyer seems to think the law changed last year that gives him right to a refund. If I had any prior knowledge of any engine issues I would not have sold the car. I wouldn't ever knowingly sell something I knew to be faulty, he has agreed that he believes I had no knowledge of the fault.

Any help or advice appreciated. Will be contacting citizens advice tomorrow to see what they say.

In reply to Del:

Golden rule: NEVER EVER sell a car to a friend or family

Sounds like a shit situation for both of you to be honest... but yes legally he owes you the money...it's up to you whether you help him out or not. having said that it's hardly worth going to a small claims court for £1100

In reply to balmybaldwin:

It is a shit situation. I do sympathise with him and would be pissed off if the shoe was on the other foot.

He is saying he has sought legal counsel and they have advised him. He has said 3 garages have said the problem has been there for a while - all be it completely unknown to me and him.

Presumably if it were to go to small claims court and I won he would pay all the legal costs?

In reply to Del:

It's at the discretion of the judge, but normally costs are awarded to the wining party.

What's actually wrong with it? and what car is it?

In reply to balmybaldwin:

I have asked that question to him already which he hasn't answered as yet. I know that the spark plugs were rotting/rotten but other than that I have no idea.
It was a Mazda RX8, I had only had it a year and only sold it due to getting a company car. freshly MOT'd with no advisories.

In reply to Del:

How old?

Reason I ask is I know RX8s and had one myself. There are indications that the service schedule set by mazda was no where near adequate - 12.5K miles minor (25K major) service on a Rotary engine is unheard of (the older rotaries mazda produced had rebuilds every 40-50K and 6K service intervals).... the schedule also doesn't include a rebuild at 90K miles as is a known requirement to replace the rotor tips at around this age... if this is the problem then quite simply your mate didn't research the car properly.

Another common issue with them is flooding of the cat after which they will only manage around 12mpg

If he can't tell you what's wrong then I would suggest he pays in full.

If you buy a rotary engined car that's 10yrs old plus for £2K you have to expect some serious maintenance costs

In reply to balmybaldwin:

was a 56 plate so just over 10 years old. to be fair I hadn't had it serviced in the time I had it as it was serviced and MOTd when I bought it. had just under 65000 on the clock. but I only did about 5000 miles in it in 11 months. definitely take some tlc but so worth it. I did a lot of research and the motor was compression tested with good results.
never had any hot or cold start issues or flooding issues. The car was running fine as far as I know.

In reply to Del:

From your description it sounds like a chancer trying it on. If I overlook this possibility and assume it's a genuine fault...

My opinion is that if you buy an old RX-8 you do so full well that you're writing a blank cheque for future maintenance costs. (That's the biggest reasons I've never given in to the temptation to buy one. I'm saving up for an i8 when they depreciate some more... much better way to burn money...)

He'd be on the wrong doing this with any car; but buying an RX-8 and then complaining about maintenance issues just marks you as a whiney little person.

I wouldn't expect an MOT to pre-diagnose many engine faults.

If he can't/won't tell you what is wrong then he can't prove that it's not due to damage that occurred since the sale. So the idea of a return and refund should be right off the cards - and explain why.

Personally I would struggle to regard someone as a friend who did not honour an agreement over a reasonable amount of money in these circumstances, so I'd have no problem going down the small claims court route.

In reply to Del:

I would suspect the tips have gone, or HE has flooded it and ruined the cat... or he's simply revved the nuts off it when it's still cold which is a sure way to shorten the life of a rotary.

You could of course offer to get it inspected yourself to see what's wrong with it.... if he's been to 3 garages for "quotes" he sure as hell knows what's wrong with it, and it sounds like you have the evidence that you checked the car out to a reasonable level if you've got compression test results.

They are lovely cars to drive, but they should never have been aimed at the mass market really as they were always a little bit specialist. I had a 230 Evolve 06 plate from new for 5 years and it was flawless, but then I serviced it twice as often as the schedule, and had the tips redone by Rotechnics in reading at 50K (and a turbo added). With the depreciation and maintenance thrown in it was probably the most expensive car I've owned but it made me smile every time I drove it

In reply to Del:

I have no idea legally but I imagine you're in the stronger position.

Depending on how good mate he is (I assume 'not particularly'!) you could always meet half way and take another £500 from him as a show of good faith. Why would he expect a 'friend' to deliberately rip him off? And what sort of friend is he if he doesn't honour his side of the contract?

In reply to wintertree:

I was upfront and said that it is a thirsty motor and that it takes some TLC to look after it. Until I know exactly what the problem is its difficult to say. worst case - the engine is completely knackered but even if that is the case I had no idea there were any pre-existing engine issues. I am not a mechanic. he took it for a test drive and was driving it for 3 weeks before the issue presented itself.
I haven't been dishonest. I told him everything I knew about the car.

In reply to balmybaldwin:

the compression test was done just before I bought it but was around 7.9/8.0 which was amazing considering the age. It was from a rotary specialist as well.

I gave him some tips to maintain it. don't rev it hard when cold. turn off the ignition while reving at about 2k to avoid flooding, keeping on top of the oil etc etc.

In reply to Del:


Suggestion from a grumpy and distrusting git...

Stop worrying about your actions and any hints he's given off that you did him over.

Start viewing this as his problem, his naivety and his breach of contract.

The fact he won't tell you what is wrong (if anything is) despite having (purportedly) gone to three garages.... Stinks to high hell.

If he ponies up some evidence you could then as another poster suggests offer to meet half way, nominally out of "good will" but in practice as a less effort route than small claims. Not that filing in small claims costs much, and you'd only drop the case if he hired a solicitor (incurring costs) and you thought it likely that you'd loose...

In reply to Del:

Doesn't sound to me like you have anything to worry about legally speaking.

Your issue now is social... is £1100 worth losing this mate over.... is he really a mate if he's trying it on like this?

I guess a lot depends on personal situations.... for some people £1100 isn't a great deal for others it's enough to make them homeless.

From the fact that he asked to pay in instalments I'm guessing he isn't awash with cash, so I think you really have to ask yourself if he's trying to pull a fast one.

In reply to balmybaldwin:

a friend of mine said that as well. maybe I am giving him too much credit.
I do wonder if he would be saying the same things if he had paid in full upfront.
The legal situation is what is confusing me. From what I have seen online he has very few rights. the only one I can see him challenging, is the one that states the car must work - which it obviously did when I sold it and continued to do so for a number of weeks afterwards.

In reply to Del:

How much he owes, or how much you'll accept, will probably depend on the depth of the friendship.

In reply to Del:

I wonder if he's put any oil in it in 3 weeks? or maybe put synthetic in instead of mineral and buggered the seals?

In reply to balmybaldwin:

I would hope not. I left him with the oil I had left over (about 300ml) that I had been using all year.

In reply to Del:


Wow, some 'mate' you've got there that you have to write a contract for a 2 grand car.
He bought your car, either he pays up or tell him to f*ck off and you take the hit.

In reply to Lusk:

I always right up a contract when selling/buying a car. the money side of things was just added to it. always have done it after a mate sold his car and the buyer went to a petrol station and drove off. the police went to him as the change of ownership hadn't gone through.

In reply to Del:

Smaller money but I once bought an 11-year-old Vectra off a mate (arguably more of an "acquaintance" based only on the amount of times I actually see him, just a nice chap I know through climbing actually) for about £700. It had been well looked after, recently serviced and MOT'd and had just had an injector replaced.

A week later the exhaust pipe fell off. £100 welding. I just laughed at the irony (no pun intended) and joked about it with the seller. Never any question of complaining.

A month later the new injector went, and put the car into limp mode giving me a hair-raising 40 miles down the M1 at 40mph. Again, hardly the seller's fault. That injector was warrantied but at a garage some distance away. I got it sorted locally for £60. Again no question of "blame" on my mate.
I was skint at the time and had paid only half the cost of the car upfront so still owed him £350, which I honoured as per our agreement (I think we did have a "contract", just a handwritten thing we both signed, almost a token gesture but legally binding I think)
I know £160 isn't £1100.
I also know (and I am no petrolhead) that Mazda RX-8s are a high risk purchase. I would expect anyone that actually buys one, to also know this.
All that said, I think that as others have suggested, the ultimate outcome here is that he pays you £550 of the £1100 and hopefully you both put it behind you as a bit of unfortunate timing and bad luck.

In reply to Del:

Time to man up. If this guy is a mate he wouldn't be refusing to pay for something he is 100% responsible for. Think about it, you have done zero wrong.

You have basically funded his credit to purchase the car and he has told you to do one when things have gone wrong. Imagine how a finance company would respond.

Call him up, remind him of the contract, which tbh you don't need but is a bonus. Ask him at what point you refused to let him get his 3 garages to check the vehicle over before purchase and then point out that any private sale, unless you have prior knowledge or work in the trade puts no onus on you to ensure everything works.

Personally, £1100 is enough to end a friendship and I would be starting small claims court asap. Who needs friends like these.

I have 20+ yrs in motor trade and even selling new I have always regretted selling to any friends. Its always a major PITA

In reply to Del:

Get it independently inspected at a mutually acceptable location and get a definitive on what's wrong. Until you know this its all theory and needless stress.

If there is a "Major" fault I'd question how serious it is in view of the fact that the guys driving it from garage to garage.

Aside from all this, the bloke paid his money and signed for "Sold as Seen"......If you dig your heals in and don't give him his money back he's still bought a cheap car providing the fault isn't too catastrophic.

Get it inspected - its all theory up until that point.

In reply to Thelittlesthob:

I am leaning more towards this approach. I am trying to get a definitive answer on the legalities of it all as he seems to think the law changed last year on "sold as seen" although I haven't been able to find anything on it and he hasn't told me exactly what this legislation is exactly. I am on the phone to citizens advice now trying to get it confirmed.

In terms of the contract he paid 1k upfront and was then going to split the remaining payments over 2 months.

In reply to Thelittlesthobo:
Agree. If he was worried about "sold as seen" he should have had the car checked by a mechanic before buying it. You told him it had a new MOT and was serviced a year ago, it's his problem. He's being a dick.

In reply to Del:

I am not a lawyer and I have only dealt with things from a motor trade perspective.

Just had a quick google and Which states in the case of private sales BUYER BEWARE applies unless the seller has prior knowledge.

Tell him to do one and start legals asap

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-...

In reply to Del:
Just for belts & braces I have linked it from his perspective because it sounds like he is reading from this page. Basically if you buy after Oct 2015 you have the right to return. This does not apply for private sales as stated further down the page. Basically all it says is the seller has a responsibility not to misrepresent it which with a fresh MOT and I presume you didn't refuse an inspection I would say you have 100% fulfilled your duties.



accurately describe the second-hand car. For example, an ad must not say 'one owner' when the car has had several
not misrepresent the second-hand car, ie tell you something about it which isn't true. For example, if it’s been in an accident, the owner mustn't tell you it hasn't.

If you're buying from a private seller, the onus is on you as the buyer to ask all the right questions before making the purchase. The seller doesn't have to volunteer extra information so, if you don't ask questions, you may not have the full picture of the car's history or be aware of any potential faults.


Funny how mates don't act like mates when it comes to money and cars.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-...

In reply to Del:
We don't know either you or your mate, so...

Scenario 1. You *did* know there was a bit of an issue (and maybe hence the "contract"), so you agree a fair price for the condition and stop being a c*nt

Scenario 2. You *did* know there was a bit of an issue, but you enforce your contract, and continue to be a c*nt

Scenario 3. You *didn't* know there was an issue but your mate did something stupid (and you thought he might, hence the contract) and hasn't owned up - in which case he's a c*nt

Scenario 4. You didn't know there was an issue; he's done all the right things (in which case no c*nts, but a contract is a bit weird to a mate) in which case you compromise, taking account of:
- how much you value friendships
- how much you can afford
- how much he can afford
- a joint trip to these garages to hear what the issue and how long it is likely to have been there/how caused etc.

Only you can rule out #1 and #2. Having done that, I'd go to #4 with the chance that it points you subsequently at #3.

But County court, contracts, CAB all seems pretty warped for a handshake with a mate.

Edit: spelling

In reply to Deadeye:
Absolute bollox. If you are purchasing something for a couple of grand like a car the onus is on you to get whatever inspection carried out to put your mind at ease. Do you know what a Mazda RX7 is? Its a cheap 2nd hand sports car which has a funny engine which although fun is a PITA and hence it becomes quite cheap as it ages. The mate who comes and kicks the tyres for you or the ex mechanic who looks for oil leaks to the certified check the AA or the RAC will do. Whatever you want to do, you get it checked. If you don't or you don't ask the right questions then you are stupid.

Basically boils down to the fact the OP, unless he is a mechanic or he had known of a fault (He has said he didn't) has sold the car in 100% clear faith. There is no cnuts about it. This is why you never sell to friends, its harder to tell them they are acting like one.

In reply to Thelittlesthobo:

this is what I went back to him with originally, I couldn't find anything else about the "sold as seen" thing anywhere. he is adamant he has had legal counsel about it. I spoke to Citizens advice today and they too have said that as he has signed the contract and is says sold as seen they cant see how he can dispute it. they have suggested I send him a breach of contract letter.

The only grey area is that was the car roadworthy? to my knowledge - yes, to his knowledge - yes, to a mechanic who fully checked out the engine - possibly not. but the buyer had the opportunity to check the car out with whomever he wanted I did not, and would not have, say he couldn't.

In reply to Thelittlesthobo:

Um, respectfully disagree.
I don't know either of them and we have only one version of events presented here.
Furthermore, I'm relaying what I'd do (I wouldn't do 1#1 or #2, but then I'm not a c*nt).

I can't imagine the OP can't find out what actually is wrong and how much the repair is, and then reflect on what's fair.

In reply to Deadeye:

Its black and white. If the 'mate' wanted to have course for complaint he should have checked things out before agreeing to buy. Of course there is the possibility of the OP lying. But then we could question every single post on this forum if we go down that route. In the case of private sales then the phrase Buyer Beware has to be the bottom line. Even with mates

In reply to Deadeye:

as I have said - the car was running fine and had just been MOT'd, I am not a mechanic, the car continued to run fine after the purchaser bought the car. If there was an existing problem there it was certainly not apparent or noticeable when I was still driving it or when the buyer was driving it.

Having a contract when selling a car is a sensible thing to do whether it is a mate or a stranger. A contract is even more applicable when lending money (or in this case allowing payments in instalments) Have you never seen Judge Rinder .
The buyer is a mate but certainly not a close one.
The car was running absolutely fine until this "problem" (which I am still yet to have an explanation of)

In reply to Del:
Sold as seen has no place in the motor sales. We used to write that on sales 20yrs ago when the vehicle was too old to put a warranty on or not enough money in it to suffice. It ended up that the motor trade couldn't hide behind the statement Sold as see. If you are in the motor trade you have to put a minimum 3mths warranty on any vehicle you sell unless it is within the motor trade, hence why motor dealers laugh when joe public comes in and asks if there are any 'trade motors' to buy. Yeah, and when it breaks down 500yd up the road they are the very people who would be acting like your mate.

You sold a car. You get a recipt for the sale. Regardless of sold as seen, you have no obligation other than to answer his questions truthfully, describe the car truthfully and let him inspect it if he so wishes. Wether it had bald tyres, a warped head, no brakes etc etc. Joe public is not mechanically minded. It is the buyers responsibility to get it checked out if they have any doubts.

My last input. I am not getting into a conversation about how to treat mates and if someone is acting like a cutn. Never sell to friends or family.

In reply to Thelittlesthobo:

He has said this morning that he is not prepared to pay another £1100 for a car that has a significant fault whether I knew about it or not and that i should see it from his point of view.

I have specifically asked him again what is wrong with the car, still no answer on that, and that he also needs to see it from my point of view that I sold a car that as far as we both knew, was in full working order, was road legal and for an agreed price.

I really do feel bad for him that the car has gone wrong but he had every opportunity to get the car checked out before he bought it and agreed to pay the asking price.

I honestly don't think this is going to be resolved outside of court.

In reply to Del:

Ask yourself, if he'd paid in full at the time, would he now be asking for a refund of £1100? And would he be confident in getting a small claims court to uphold that if he took action?

Sounds like he has a lesson to learn in taking responsibility for his own actions and decisions.

In reply to Del:

My tuppence

The fact he paid in instalments and therefore still owes money has no bearing on anything... bar making it harder for you to resolve.

In a normal transaction he would have paid and taken his car away. He would have had 3 happy weeks and then something would have gone wrong. He would have gone to garage and been told the car had a fault, or he's destroyed it in some way. Assuming the car had a pre-existing fault he would only have a very faint chance of recourse if you can be proved to have misrepresented the cars condition or deliberately covered something up. Which you state is not the case.

Even knowing there is a fault or potential for a fault would not be an issue legally (morally yes) if you didn't misrepresent things and if he didn't directly ask (simple example), you know there is bulge on a tyre that would require it to be replaced but you say nothing in the advert about tyre condition and he does not ask anything about tyre condition - if he fails to spot the issue and/or doesn't directly ask 'do the tyres all meet minimum legal standard' or 'is the car safe and is everything working and legal to the best of your knowledge' it would still be his problem. He would only have recourse if he could prove that you knew about something and lied.

The guy is being a dick. The lack of clarity on what the issue actually is seems a big red flag to me for starters but even if he tells you what the problem is, if you had no knowledge of it, it is entirely his responsibility and he is very much in breach of an agreement to pay you the agreed value of the car. And that value does price in the fact that it is an old sports car, of dubious reliability that requires lots of TLC and is prone to expensive work requirements.

Slightly different but a few years back I had a decent sum to spend on a fun car - choice was pretty much 2 or 3 year old Alfas, Audis, SAAB convertible etc - or similar spend on a ~12 year old Maserati - a friend with a one year old Masser advised me that he wouldn't touch the old one with a bargepole as it was a binary outcome... spend 10 to 15 grand and probably have it blow up in a year and be worthless, or at best have a multi thousand pound bill to get the car back to being worth similar to what it was when bought, with a strong chance of another huge bill just round the corner for whatever fails next. I went sensible as I couldn't bear to blow that much on one or two years 'fun'. Your car is not quite in that league but it's similar - older, performance vehicle of dubious reliability. It either goes well for a while or it goes horribly wrong... chances of getting a quiet few years out of it and a gently reducing value with minimal costs - pretty much nil. Buyer beware on second hand cars, even more so in the category described, even more so on private sale with virtually zero recourse on seller if anything goes wrong.

Sorry but only way I see this going is you write off the debt/come to a part arrangement and ultimately decide whether you want the guy as a mate or not or you file a small claims action (no expert but I understand this is relatively cheap and easy and I can not see any way you would not win) and definitely write the guy off. And make sure your circle of friends know the precise circumstances.

I suspect the guy is a chancer trying a fast one or one of lifes whingers who looks for an out/somebody to blame whenever something doesn't work out his way.... he shouldn't be leaning on a friend for sympathy or compensation. The legal bluster coming from him is nonsense and one hopes he will back down quick enough if you stand firm and if necessary raise a small claims action. Can't see somebody who needs to pay in lumps for a £2k car having much of a tolerance for legal fees to defend himself properly and even if he defends himself the facts seem pretty clearly staked in your favour whether the problem was pre-existing ort not. As stated, car just MOT'd (no guarantee of longevity but proof it was road legal when sold) and he test drove it and then ran it for 3 weeks without issue.

In reply to john arran:




This. x100.

He bought a second hand car on the information that he was given which was accurate to the sellers knowledge (i.e. no purposeful duplicity), after that it is caveat emptor.

He owes you the money as per the contract. He is trying to weasel out of it.

In reply to john arran and Ferret:

I am kicking myself that I I didn't get all the money upfront. John, I agree I think it is a harsh lesson for him. I really do feel gutted for him as like me he was very passionate about the car but I don't think he did as much research as he should have.

In terms of the money/finance/side of things I am going to give him until the 1st September to pay the balance. This is what was agreed in the contract (2 instalments on 1st Aug and 1st Sept)

In reply to Del:

I don't think he did as much research as he should have.

30 seconds gave me information about very high running (servicing and repairs) costs and huge issues of buying one second hand.
5 seconds to google and 25 seconds to skim read. Literally, that was it.

In reply to ClimberEd:

He loved the car (maybe not so much now) but more the look of it I think. I got it for the drive more than anything. I researched for about 2 weeks before I bought it as I knew it was a "high risk" motor, hence why I got it from a specialist. I voluntarily offered info on the MPG, maintenance to perform etc.

In reply to Del:

The fact he will not tell you what the 'major issue' is rings alarm bells.
I back up what has been said above, he owes you the money and the fault lies with him in not doing the proper research into the vehicle.

I have a feeling if you stand firm then you will get your money.
He is hoping that you will give in. When he knows you won't and is facing fees and court then he will surely pay up.

Ben

In reply to Del:

Send him a letter registered post along the lines of:

you are now in breach of contract having failed to bay 1st August instalment on time. If this entire balance is not paid by 1st September as per agreed contract you will have no option but to file a claim in the small claims court, and you will be seeking costs in this regard

This will give you what you need to proceed in terms of notice of action.

Follow through with the threat if he doesn't pay.

In reply to Del:

If I had a cheap old car I was selling and a friend asked after it, you can be sure they'd ask "is it okay" and you'd eithe reply "it's a load of old shit I'm trying to get what I can for it" (I had a Rover like that which I was glad to get £500 part ex at the garage) or "yes, it's an absolute dream, runs fine" (which I also had selling an MG on here which I'd been given and was well looked after).

I can't imagine selling a car to a friend without some tacit agreement over the quality of what they're buying - either it'll get you buy until the next MOT or here have this bargain that no garage will give me the value of.

Given this, I'm inclined to think you should be helping your friend to resolve this. Possibly flogging it on autrotrader as needs fixing and splitting the different.

In reply to Philip:

I can see what you are saying however there was no knowledge of any underlying issues. If there was then I would have obviously stated that. As far as anyone knew everything was absolutely fine.

In reply to Ferret:

(Not really - more aimed at the OP)


A lot of folk responding have talked about small claims court as if winning a case would sort you out, all done and dusted, nice and clean. If you're thinking of going down this road, I'd suggest that you don't want to get too so focussed on how you win a case that you neglect to think about what happens afterwards.

I don't know from first hand experience (thank goodness), but I suspect you may find that winning a case in small claims court and actually getting your hands on the money may be two different things. Especially if you're talking about someone who doesn't actually have any money.

Clearly this bloke won't be your mate any more, and from this thread that doesn't sound like a great loss tbh. Will there be fallout elsewhere though? Are you and he part of a larger group? Do you run the risk of nuking your social life to be grudgingly paid the money at the rate of a fiver a week?

Not trying to be the voice of doom here, just something to think about that I don't think has been mentioned in the thread so far.

In reply to deepsoup:

in terms of our relationship, we both did a charity event about 2.5 years ago and stayed friends from that however we don't have the same circle of friends or even live in the same town.

What you're saying about actually getting the money though is correct. I know he is self employed so could well only offer to payback at a fiver a week.

In reply to Philip:

See that T5 for sale further up. I am going to offer him 50% of what he is after. Then I want him to sign a contract guaranteeing that if the vehicle has any issues in next 12mths I don't have to pay him the further 50%.

Lets see how he reacts to this. Its ok, I will act like his mate until I have to pay him the other 50%.

In reply to Del:

Aye but you see how he manages to get credit for anything being self employed with a ccj against his name. Don't be put off. £1000 is a lot of money

In reply to Del:

I've had a scan on the thread but can't see - what's the "Major fault" ? Rotor tips ?

In reply to Del:

I recently bought a Mondeo for 400 quid. I gave it a good look over and bought it.
burns loads of oil which I didn't spot as I didn't let it warm up properly while checking it.
that's my fault for not checking it.

I suspect your friend has ragged it and damaged it, and now is trying to not have to pay for the rest of it.

if it's an option for yourself then perhaps offer to spread the payments over a larger period (though you don't have to).
I'd also suggest keeping all your communications in an easily provable format, ie email. His ducking the 'what's wrong with it' question is very telling I think.

Filing a small claims court claim (~£16 where I am) might have the desired effect.

In reply to dunc56:

He sent me some pictures of rotten spark plugs but that is it. If its as major as he is saying the rotor tips were my first thought but I've still not had an answer.

In reply to Del:


What is a rotten spark plug ? Just out of interest, how many were in the picture ?

In reply to dunc56:

No idea! The plug had been removed but as far as I can tell only one

In reply to Del:

Forget niceties, he's pulling a fast one on you and robbing £1100 off you because he doesn't think you will chase hard.

If you are comfortable with it then go round to his house and to collect the first payment, I would be too chicken to do this though. It could be that you turn up and find that he has pranged it or his missus didn't want him to spend money on it something similar.

Second option is that he will pay up fast enough once he gets a letter from a lawyer threatening court.

Private car sales are guaranteed until the brake lights disappear round the first corner. If you don't want trouble then don't buy an RX-8.

In reply to Del:

Just read this and the fact that you're not actually that close only strengthens my opinion. The guys trying it on. Dig your heals in. He's signed a contract, it was sold as seen, and he owes you £1100.

Give him a time limit in writing to pay the remainder and make it clear that if the money isn't forthcoming then you want the car back without any kind of refund - maybe a hundred quids worth of solicitors letter will add gravitas ?.

Don't stress mate - you've handled the transaction professionally and courteously and he appears to be a chancer.

In reply to Del:

Rotten spark plugs aren't a "Major Fault". I am to engineering what Colonel Sanders is to chickens and even I can change a spark plug.

In reply to mattlee:
Colonel Sanders was involved in a shoot out with his main competitor over traffic signs. He was also a lawyer and his last court case ended with a brawl between him and his client in Court.
I think he would know how to deal with this problem, chicken or not.

In reply to mattlee:

Plugs and leads are a routine bit of the maintenance on any motor , costs a few hundred to replace them for a decent set on a RX-8.

He's gone very quiet which makes me think 1 of 2 things:
1. He's hoping I wont take it any further and just forget about it (bollocks to that!)
2. He is doing his own legal thing, although I'm not convinced there is much he can do short of accusing me of lying about the car.

I'm fortunate my best mate is a solicitor so as soon as he is back from his holiday ill be taping him up for a letter or two. Least he can do after all the IT support I've given him over the years lol