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If anyone's been recently, can you confirm whether or not a rope was in situ? I know it's warm, but I'd be happy not to swim. Thanks
In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:
There has been a previous thread on this quite recently. There is certainly no permanent Tyrolean in situ, and most parties retrieve their ropes at the end. We certainly left nothing in place. So unless you are fortunate enough to arrive just after another party who will let you use their Tyrolean. I wouldn't bank on there being anything there.
There has been a previous thread on this quite recently. There is certainly no permanent Tyrolean in situ, and most parties retrieve their ropes at the end. We certainly left nothing in place. So unless you are fortunate enough to arrive just after another party who will let you use their Tyrolean. I wouldn't bank on there being anything there.
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In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
Youngest member of the party, isn't that the custom? I'm all for tradition.
Youngest member of the party, isn't that the custom? I'm all for tradition.
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In reply to Dan Bailey
Apparently there was one in situ two weeks ago. It would be a real shame if this became the norm since it would kind of miss half the point/challenge of the whole thing. If it's still there, please remove it!
Apparently there was one in situ two weeks ago. It would be a real shame if this became the norm since it would kind of miss half the point/challenge of the whole thing. If it's still there, please remove it!
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In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:
We swam, well actually my mate Ed swam having picked the short straw, much earlier in the year than this and before a time you could get a wetsuit for 15 quid from Tesco or similar! Get on with it man.
The first 5a traverse pitch from the traditional tyrolean point is horrible as I remember it, many people have said going directly to the left corner of the stack as you look out avoids it. Sounds sensible to me as leading or seconding, that first pitch was unpleasant.
We swam, well actually my mate Ed swam having picked the short straw, much earlier in the year than this and before a time you could get a wetsuit for 15 quid from Tesco or similar! Get on with it man.
The first 5a traverse pitch from the traditional tyrolean point is horrible as I remember it, many people have said going directly to the left corner of the stack as you look out avoids it. Sounds sensible to me as leading or seconding, that first pitch was unpleasant.
In reply to TobyA:
I wouldn't go so far as to say the first pitch was unpleasant but it's considerably harder than the rest of the route. We were really lucky- a party of three Aberdonians had just set up a Tyrolean when we arrived at the foot of the cliff. Then the sun came out...all good : )
I wouldn't go so far as to say the first pitch was unpleasant but it's considerably harder than the rest of the route. We were really lucky- a party of three Aberdonians had just set up a Tyrolean when we arrived at the foot of the cliff. Then the sun came out...all good : )
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In reply to lummox and Dan:
Yup agreed but on our visit a year ago the Old Man had full-on sunshine and that 1st pitch was thankfully bone dry plus not as much of a horrorshow as I was expecting!
youtube.com/watch?v=btBQeb-swTI&
Hope you have a great day Dan as it is a great adventure day out!
> I wouldn't go so far as to say the first pitch was unpleasant but it's considerably harder than the rest of the route.
Yup agreed but on our visit a year ago the Old Man had full-on sunshine and that 1st pitch was thankfully bone dry plus not as much of a horrorshow as I was expecting!
youtube.com/watch?v=btBQeb-swTI&
Hope you have a great day Dan as it is a great adventure day out!
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In reply to lummox:
It was soggy and slippy when we did it and I actually clipped some ancient wooden chock with hawser laid rope through it! Can't imagine it would have held but added some museum like interest to the pitch!
It was soggy and slippy when we did it and I actually clipped some ancient wooden chock with hawser laid rope through it! Can't imagine it would have held but added some museum like interest to the pitch!
In reply to TobyA:
Pretty sure we clipped that as well ! The vis was about 5 metres when we arrived at the top of the cliff and it was quite dramatic when the stack loomed out of the mist. The first pitch was character building and pretty dank.
Pretty sure we clipped that as well ! The vis was about 5 metres when we arrived at the top of the cliff and it was quite dramatic when the stack loomed out of the mist. The first pitch was character building and pretty dank.
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In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:
I paddled past the Old Man in my kayak on a blustery afternoon a month or so ago. There was nobody climbing at the time and given the weather I think it was highly unlikely anyone had been for a day or three beforehand either, but there was a tyrolean rigged. There was a hex and a few other bits of 'crag swag' at the stack end, I couldn't see the other.
I went there thinking I might jump out of the boat and scramble about a bit, but the state of the sea on the southern side of the headland was er.. mildly exciting that day, so I didn't stick around long before I scarpered back round to the sheltered side of the point.
I paddled past the Old Man in my kayak on a blustery afternoon a month or so ago. There was nobody climbing at the time and given the weather I think it was highly unlikely anyone had been for a day or three beforehand either, but there was a tyrolean rigged. There was a hex and a few other bits of 'crag swag' at the stack end, I couldn't see the other.
I went there thinking I might jump out of the boat and scramble about a bit, but the state of the sea on the southern side of the headland was er.. mildly exciting that day, so I didn't stick around long before I scarpered back round to the sheltered side of the point.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
There was a big facebook thread about this the other week. Since I can't swim, I'm all in favour of one in place. Folk talk about removing items when it suits them, but are quite happy for others to be used (like the abseil point on the Inn Pinn). From facebook a couple of days ago, there is one in place. Please don't remove it!
There was a big facebook thread about this the other week. Since I can't swim, I'm all in favour of one in place. Folk talk about removing items when it suits them, but are quite happy for others to be used (like the abseil point on the Inn Pinn). From facebook a couple of days ago, there is one in place. Please don't remove it!
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In reply to Andy Nisbet:
With all due respect, I would be really,really disappointed if consensus emerged that it should be in situ. I would happily remove it if I were to go there in the near future. Swimming is part of the deal - it's a big part of what makes it special and I'm genuinely astonished and disappointed that anyone would disagree, let alone an authority of your stature. A better comparison would be a ladder on the Inn Pinn for Munro baggers who can't climb.
Incidentally, it is possible to do it without swimming with a very low tide and calm sea by boulder hopping across and fixing the Tyrolean for the return (I've done this). Or with a kiddies' dinghy!
> There was a big facebook thread about this the other week. Since I can't swim, I'm all in favour of one in place. Folk talk about removing items when it suits them, but are quite happy for others to be used (like the abseil point on the Inn Pinn). From facebook a couple of days ago, there is one in place. Please don't remove it!
With all due respect, I would be really,really disappointed if consensus emerged that it should be in situ. I would happily remove it if I were to go there in the near future. Swimming is part of the deal - it's a big part of what makes it special and I'm genuinely astonished and disappointed that anyone would disagree, let alone an authority of your stature. A better comparison would be a ladder on the Inn Pinn for Munro baggers who can't climb.
Incidentally, it is possible to do it without swimming with a very low tide and calm sea by boulder hopping across and fixing the Tyrolean for the return (I've done this). Or with a kiddies' dinghy!
Post edited at 16:30
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In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:
Looks like I'll have to defer to someone else on the tyrolean, or lack of it this time. My partner wussed out of the drive, says he has to spend the evening at Dumby or some such rot. Bit epic for a day trip from Fife, or am I just getting soft
Looks like I'll have to defer to someone else on the tyrolean, or lack of it this time. My partner wussed out of the drive, says he has to spend the evening at Dumby or some such rot. Bit epic for a day trip from Fife, or am I just getting soft
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In reply to Andy Nisbet:
I'm very surprised that you should advocate that Andy.
Surely your solution is to go with someone who can swim and is willing to do the swim? So far as you are concerned, just don't fall in!!
As for the 5a first traverse pitch, yes, it was very greasy when we did it and it's as hard for the second as it is for the leader. Either falling off is likely to result in a dunking
> . Since I can't swim, I'm all in favour of one in place.
I'm very surprised that you should advocate that Andy.
Surely your solution is to go with someone who can swim and is willing to do the swim? So far as you are concerned, just don't fall in!!
As for the 5a first traverse pitch, yes, it was very greasy when we did it and it's as hard for the second as it is for the leader. Either falling off is likely to result in a dunking
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In reply to Andy Nisbet:
When I climbed the Old Man in the mid 80s we were pleasantly surprised to find a wire cable in place (having spent the walk-in arguing over who should swim); A few worrying moments before we were sure it was safe, then a quick traverse across. Asking around led to suggestions that PlasyBrenin were responsible but I've no idea if that was true. Evidently it didn't stay in place for long
When I climbed the Old Man in the mid 80s we were pleasantly surprised to find a wire cable in place (having spent the walk-in arguing over who should swim); A few worrying moments before we were sure it was safe, then a quick traverse across. Asking around led to suggestions that PlasyBrenin were responsible but I've no idea if that was true. Evidently it didn't stay in place for long
In reply to Robert Durran:
Good post. I was going to reply to Andy's post on Facebook but thought it would just end up with a long debate.
> With all due respect, I would be really,really disappointed if consensus emerged that it should be in situ. I would happily remove it if I were to go there in the near future. Swimming is part of the deal - it's a big part of what makes it special and I'm genuinely astonished and disappointed that anyone would disagree, let alone an authority of your stature. A better comparison would be a ladder on the Inn Pinn for Munro baggers who can't climb.
Good post. I was going to reply to Andy's post on Facebook but thought it would just end up with a long debate.
In reply to Colin Moody:
I'm bored with the hypocrisy. Lots of folk say they'd rather not have a rope in place. But then when they find the rope which is normally there, they're dead chuffed, it makes their day and they leave it for the next party.
I'm bored with the hypocrisy. Lots of folk say they'd rather not have a rope in place. But then when they find the rope which is normally there, they're dead chuffed, it makes their day and they leave it for the next party.
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In reply to Andy Nisbet:
I should have kept out of this, not because I’m wrong but because I didn’t want a debate.
In my opinion this is crossing a line like bolting an old unbolted route, it shouldn't be done without some sort of agreement.
I should have kept out of this, not because I’m wrong but because I didn’t want a debate.
In my opinion this is crossing a line like bolting an old unbolted route, it shouldn't be done without some sort of agreement.
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In reply to Trangia:
For someone who can't swim, I'd have thought that's much preferable to committing to an in-situ tyrolean rigged who knows when, by who knows whom, using an old rope that's come from who knows where.
Incidentally, if I couldn't swim I'd want to learn asap really. Lots of pools these days have really good classes for adult beginners. It's a massively life-enhancing skill to have, even if you rarely do it.
> Surely your solution is to go with someone who can swim and is willing to do the swim? So far as you are concerned, just don't fall in!!
For someone who can't swim, I'd have thought that's much preferable to committing to an in-situ tyrolean rigged who knows when, by who knows whom, using an old rope that's come from who knows where.
Incidentally, if I couldn't swim I'd want to learn asap really. Lots of pools these days have really good classes for adult beginners. It's a massively life-enhancing skill to have, even if you rarely do it.
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In reply to Andy Nisbet:
It's not as simple as that and I really don't think there is any real hypocrisy. As you say, people would prefer the rope not to be there (and that should mean it is removed - end of story). But not using it would feel contrived, and human nature being what it is they use it. That does not mean it "makes their day"; in fact their day is diminished and they will know that. They don't remove it probably because they fear the wrath of a minority who just don't get what the experience of a unique climb like this is all about. I'm afraid to say that your view is dangerously symptomatic of an attitude which could see a capitulation towards all sorts of unwanted dilution of the challenges of climbing.
> I'm bored with the hypocrisy. Lots of folk say they'd rather not have a rope in place. But then when they find the rope which is normally there, they're dead chuffed, it makes their day and they leave it for the next party.
It's not as simple as that and I really don't think there is any real hypocrisy. As you say, people would prefer the rope not to be there (and that should mean it is removed - end of story). But not using it would feel contrived, and human nature being what it is they use it. That does not mean it "makes their day"; in fact their day is diminished and they will know that. They don't remove it probably because they fear the wrath of a minority who just don't get what the experience of a unique climb like this is all about. I'm afraid to say that your view is dangerously symptomatic of an attitude which could see a capitulation towards all sorts of unwanted dilution of the challenges of climbing.
Post edited at 08:34
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Climbing changes with the times. Harold Raeburn disapproved of the use of cars to approach Skye instead of going by boat. I can remember the fuss over cams being cheating, then chalk went thought the same process. You just want things the way you like.
> a capitulation towards all sorts of unwanted dilution of the challenges of climbing.
Climbing changes with the times. Harold Raeburn disapproved of the use of cars to approach Skye instead of going by boat. I can remember the fuss over cams being cheating, then chalk went thought the same process. You just want things the way you like.
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In reply to deepsoup:
In theory I can swim. I did learn it as a kid. But I hate cold water and I like climbing, so don't feel the ethical need to do so. And yes, I could go by boat, and I have climbed several sea-stacks by boat. But when one person swims and the rest go by Tyrolean, what's the difference if everyone goes by Tyrolean.
> Incidentally, if I couldn't swim I'd want to learn asap really. Lots of pools these days have really good classes for adult beginners. It's a massively life-enhancing skill to have, even if you rarely do it.
In theory I can swim. I did learn it as a kid. But I hate cold water and I like climbing, so don't feel the ethical need to do so. And yes, I could go by boat, and I have climbed several sea-stacks by boat. But when one person swims and the rest go by Tyrolean, what's the difference if everyone goes by Tyrolean.
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In reply to deepsoup:
I quite enjoyed crossing the Tyrolean a few years back when the sheaf and about half the inner strands had clearly gone (and the strength of what remained being uncertain). The descent to the crossing, down the mainland cliff was pretty spicy as well. The route if anything was a bit too easy, albeit in an utterly amazing situation. Most excitement on the route was working out if the Fulmars were in vomit range.
I quite enjoyed crossing the Tyrolean a few years back when the sheaf and about half the inner strands had clearly gone (and the strength of what remained being uncertain). The descent to the crossing, down the mainland cliff was pretty spicy as well. The route if anything was a bit too easy, albeit in an utterly amazing situation. Most excitement on the route was working out if the Fulmars were in vomit range.
In reply to Andy Nisbet:
Hi Andy,
Out of interest, what's the facebook page? Does it have useful information for climbing in Scotland? Is it a closed thing that not everyone can look at or would I be ok to check it out?
Thanks,
James.
Hi Andy,
Out of interest, what's the facebook page? Does it have useful information for climbing in Scotland? Is it a closed thing that not everyone can look at or would I be ok to check it out?
Thanks,
James.
In reply to Andy Nisbet:
I wasn't suggesting climbers should go there by boat. I only went by boat because I was kayaking that day, not climbing. A much shorter trip than I'd originally planned because the weather was rough.
I already suggested one difference in the post you were replying to - you know who rigged the tyrolean and when, and what gear they used.
Personally I have no strong opinion whether the tyrolean should be left in situ or not but the other obvious difference is that in the former case the group, as a team, were entirely self-reliant to get themselves over there. It's analogous to the difference between one person in the party leading a pitch for the rest to follow and everyone in the group top-roping it.
> And yes, I could go by boat, and I have climbed several sea-stacks by boat.
I wasn't suggesting climbers should go there by boat. I only went by boat because I was kayaking that day, not climbing. A much shorter trip than I'd originally planned because the weather was rough.
> But when one person swims and the rest go by Tyrolean, what's the difference if everyone goes by Tyrolean.
I already suggested one difference in the post you were replying to - you know who rigged the tyrolean and when, and what gear they used.
Personally I have no strong opinion whether the tyrolean should be left in situ or not but the other obvious difference is that in the former case the group, as a team, were entirely self-reliant to get themselves over there. It's analogous to the difference between one person in the party leading a pitch for the rest to follow and everyone in the group top-roping it.
In reply to Andy Nisbet:
The real issue here is you cannot inspect a Tyrolean and assess whether it is safe before getting on it. Whatever the rights and wrongs of fixed abseil points, the climber can make an informed choice as to whether or not to use them.
In addition a Tyrolean is one hell of an eyesore even compared to some lurid tat round a block...
The real issue here is you cannot inspect a Tyrolean and assess whether it is safe before getting on it. Whatever the rights and wrongs of fixed abseil points, the climber can make an informed choice as to whether or not to use them.
In addition a Tyrolean is one hell of an eyesore even compared to some lurid tat round a block...
Post edited at 12:55
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In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:
Walked past it on Thursday 20th, there was a Tyrolean in situ then (didn't test it though!).
Walked past it on Thursday 20th, there was a Tyrolean in situ then (didn't test it though!).
In reply to Offwidth:
Ha ha. Well there is that.
You are, of course, a very sick man who should probably seek help.
While I was up that way on my big Scottish road trip, I went to pay a visit to Am Buachaille as well. (On foot that time - the wind and the state of the sea said an emphatic no to paddling that day.) I'm still not sure if I found the right descent, but did scramble down a gully to sea level. Holy cow, what a chossfest! :-O
> I quite enjoyed crossing the Tyrolean a few years back when the sheaf and about half the inner strands had clearly gone (and the strength of what remained being uncertain).
Ha ha. Well there is that.
You are, of course, a very sick man who should probably seek help.
> The descent to the crossing, down the mainland cliff was pretty spicy as well.
While I was up that way on my big Scottish road trip, I went to pay a visit to Am Buachaille as well. (On foot that time - the wind and the state of the sea said an emphatic no to paddling that day.) I'm still not sure if I found the right descent, but did scramble down a gully to sea level. Holy cow, what a chossfest! :-O
In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:
Have to say I really enjoyed having to swim to establish the Tyrolean when I did the route way back; it certainly added to the adventure and memories of doing the Old Man that I have.
Of course, had it been in situ I would have used that just as I would probably clip a bolt on a crack line that could be traditionally protect. I prefer not having the option!
Have to say I really enjoyed having to swim to establish the Tyrolean when I did the route way back; it certainly added to the adventure and memories of doing the Old Man that I have.
Of course, had it been in situ I would have used that just as I would probably clip a bolt on a crack line that could be traditionally protect. I prefer not having the option!
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In reply to Andy Nisbet:
Do you, or anyone else, know what the top of the stack is like currently? When I climbed it back in the 90s there was so much tat around the top that it was easily visible from the mainland. If we have an insitu tyrolean, would not a safe, strong and visibly non-intrusive ab station on the top not also make sense?
> I'm bored with the hypocrisy. Lots of folk say they'd rather not have a rope in place. But then when they find the rope which is normally there, they're dead chuffed,
Do you, or anyone else, know what the top of the stack is like currently? When I climbed it back in the 90s there was so much tat around the top that it was easily visible from the mainland. If we have an insitu tyrolean, would not a safe, strong and visibly non-intrusive ab station on the top not also make sense?
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In reply to TobyA:
There is a load of tat and a maillon. It just allows you to get down with 50m ropes, but you'd be in big trouble if they were 49m. Then again, our ropes might have been 51m, and then you'd be in trouble with a bare 50m. I agree with you for the fixed gear.
> Do you, or anyone else, know what the top of the stack is like currently? When I climbed it back in the 90s there was so much tat around the top that it was easily visible from the mainland. If we have an insitu tyrolean, would not a safe, strong and visibly non-intrusive ab station on the top not also make sense?
There is a load of tat and a maillon. It just allows you to get down with 50m ropes, but you'd be in big trouble if they were 49m. Then again, our ropes might have been 51m, and then you'd be in trouble with a bare 50m. I agree with you for the fixed gear.
Practical issues with a fixed Tyrolean:
Degradation in situ is likely a bigger safety issue than for abseil tat. An in-situ Tyrolean would encourage visits by climbers who might have been put off by their lack of confidence to rig their own and are by definition less equipped to appraise the safety of the in-situ. It's a potentially serious place. People should be managing their own risk.
What happens if you get there, decide the fixed rope is shredded or the anchors unsafe? Do you donate your own gear to replace it and carry all the old rubbish out? Or leave it all until the rope disintegrates, adding to all the microplastic in the sea, and all the gear placements are full of corroded crud?
I don't recall that there were so many anchors that you could rig another rope if there was one already in place. Though we only got as far as putting the rope across (long-suffering wife doing the swim) before the rain started. So the scariest part of our day was the descent path.
Degradation in situ is likely a bigger safety issue than for abseil tat. An in-situ Tyrolean would encourage visits by climbers who might have been put off by their lack of confidence to rig their own and are by definition less equipped to appraise the safety of the in-situ. It's a potentially serious place. People should be managing their own risk.
What happens if you get there, decide the fixed rope is shredded or the anchors unsafe? Do you donate your own gear to replace it and carry all the old rubbish out? Or leave it all until the rope disintegrates, adding to all the microplastic in the sea, and all the gear placements are full of corroded crud?
I don't recall that there were so many anchors that you could rig another rope if there was one already in place. Though we only got as far as putting the rope across (long-suffering wife doing the swim) before the rain started. So the scariest part of our day was the descent path.
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In reply to Andy Nisbet:
I did the swim a few years back. I can't say I enjoyed the swim itself very much. I'd have used the rope if there'd been one in place. But I learned a new skill, rigging the Tyrolean, and going across a fixed rope would have diminished the big sense of adventure I had that day. It is one of my best climbing memories. I would prefer that no rope is fixed.
I did the swim a few years back. I can't say I enjoyed the swim itself very much. I'd have used the rope if there'd been one in place. But I learned a new skill, rigging the Tyrolean, and going across a fixed rope would have diminished the big sense of adventure I had that day. It is one of my best climbing memories. I would prefer that no rope is fixed.
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In reply to Andy Nisbet:
Oh dear, can't you do better than that? I want the sea stack experience preserved for the next climbers to come along. If the likes/dislikes are anything to go by, I am happily reassured that so do most other people. I shall remove any in situ tyrolean with a clear conscience if or when I next go to Stoer, though that's unlikely to be this year, so hopefully someone else will.
I am genuinely saddened by your opinion on this matter. You have lost a little bit of the great respect I have for you
> Climbing changes with the times. Harold Raeburn disapproved of the use of cars to approach Skye instead of going by boat. I can remember the fuss over cams being cheating, then chalk went thought the same process. You just want things the way you like.
Oh dear, can't you do better than that? I want the sea stack experience preserved for the next climbers to come along. If the likes/dislikes are anything to go by, I am happily reassured that so do most other people. I shall remove any in situ tyrolean with a clear conscience if or when I next go to Stoer, though that's unlikely to be this year, so hopefully someone else will.
I am genuinely saddened by your opinion on this matter. You have lost a little bit of the great respect I have for you
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In reply to James B:
Fixing the Tyrolean is easy (for you). All you have to do is swim. Tensioning (releasable), then pulling people across it is the hard bit, and you still get to do that. Or you can swim both ways, since swimming is such an adventure!
Fixing the Tyrolean is easy (for you). All you have to do is swim. Tensioning (releasable), then pulling people across it is the hard bit, and you still get to do that. Or you can swim both ways, since swimming is such an adventure!
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In reply to Andy Nisbet:
And how would you feel about a situ ladder or via ferrata on the Inn Pinn for Munro baggers who can't climb. Would you just shrug your shoulders, say 'oh well, things change and it's there now and it's convenient, so it might as well stay'?
And how would you feel about a situ ladder or via ferrata on the Inn Pinn for Munro baggers who can't climb. Would you just shrug your shoulders, say 'oh well, things change and it's there now and it's convenient, so it might as well stay'?
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In reply to Andy Nisbet:
Well I did Am Buachaille a couple of weeks ago. The swimming part was definitely the intimidating part of the adventure for me as a not very confident swimmer. But the whole package was a fantastic and memorable day out - definitely the most rewarding of the three classic Stacks for me - the most committing and the best climbing on Atlantic Wall.
> Or you can swim both ways, since swimming is such an adventure!
Well I did Am Buachaille a couple of weeks ago. The swimming part was definitely the intimidating part of the adventure for me as a not very confident swimmer. But the whole package was a fantastic and memorable day out - definitely the most rewarding of the three classic Stacks for me - the most committing and the best climbing on Atlantic Wall.
In reply to Robert Durran:
There's no clear answer of course, but the choppers have the final say, as it's much easier to chop than to place. Obviously I wouldn't want an in-situ ladder, as we are climbers, so it isn't relevant.
> And how would you feel about a situ ladder or via ferrata on the Inn Pinn for Munro baggers who can't climb. Would you just shrug your shoulders, say 'oh well, things change and it's there now and it's convenient, so it might as well stay'?
There's no clear answer of course, but the choppers have the final say, as it's much easier to chop than to place. Obviously I wouldn't want an in-situ ladder, as we are climbers, so it isn't relevant.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
I've never done it (obviously).
> Well I did Am Buachaille a couple of weeks ago. The swimming part was definitely the intimidating part of the adventure for me as a not very confident swimmer.
I've never done it (obviously).
In reply to Andy Nisbet:
When we got there the traverse was just a mess. I swam and then we removed the 3 ropes useless ropes that were in situ. And then someone sorted out the anchor on the seaward side. Seems sensible to me to take your rope home.
When we got there the traverse was just a mess. I swam and then we removed the 3 ropes useless ropes that were in situ. And then someone sorted out the anchor on the seaward side. Seems sensible to me to take your rope home.
Post edited at 11:20
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In reply to doz:
That made me remember a story by someone I have climbed with a fair bit. Back in the day he was kayaking with a school group and happened to pass the Old Man of Stoer. He'd packed his rock boots for bouldering on the beaches in the evening. He managed to leave the group for long enough to solo to the top of the stack and then downclimb without it being noticed by the group....I was fairly impressed when I heard the story...
> definitely getting soft Dan - who needs a partner?!
That made me remember a story by someone I have climbed with a fair bit. Back in the day he was kayaking with a school group and happened to pass the Old Man of Stoer. He'd packed his rock boots for bouldering on the beaches in the evening. He managed to leave the group for long enough to solo to the top of the stack and then downclimb without it being noticed by the group....I was fairly impressed when I heard the story...
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In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:
It has been removed. No need for it to be there. Tried to remove the rotting gear too but it needs a chisel! If it keeps going like this there will be no space for gear.
A sea stack is supposed to be an adventure. Try to leave no trace.
It has been removed. No need for it to be there. Tried to remove the rotting gear too but it needs a chisel! If it keeps going like this there will be no space for gear.
A sea stack is supposed to be an adventure. Try to leave no trace.
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In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:
Ive filled the sea with oil and diesel and set it on fire for those who are really after the adventure. Also trying to attract more sharks to the area.
Ive filled the sea with oil and diesel and set it on fire for those who are really after the adventure. Also trying to attract more sharks to the area.
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In reply to Dangerous Dave:
Well said.
This works.
Swim in.
Fix tyrolean for gear, clothes and another climber.
Ab down, cleaning stack side anchor.
Use abseil and spare rope to tension to shore.
> It has been removed. No need for it to be there. Tried to remove the rotting gear too but it needs a chisel! If it keeps going like this there will be no space for gear.
> A sea stack is supposed to be an adventure. Try to leave no trace.
Well said.
This works.
Swim in.
Fix tyrolean for gear, clothes and another climber.
Ab down, cleaning stack side anchor.
Use abseil and spare rope to tension to shore.
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In reply to Rick Graham:
Agree with most of this, but that still leaves the problem of abandoned abseil tat at the top.
Is there a case here for a fixed abseil bolt so that there is no need for anyone to leave tat on top?
Also, unless parties descend in one ab (longer rope required) there is still the problem of intermediate tat if they do it in two abs.
> Well said.
> This works.
> Swim in.
> Fix tyrolean for gear, clothes and another climber.
> Ab down, cleaning stack side anchor.
> Use abseil and spare rope to tension to shore.
Agree with most of this, but that still leaves the problem of abandoned abseil tat at the top.
Is there a case here for a fixed abseil bolt so that there is no need for anyone to leave tat on top?
Also, unless parties descend in one ab (longer rope required) there is still the problem of intermediate tat if they do it in two abs.
Post edited at 20:05
In reply to Trangia:
Nothings perfect.
IIRC 2 abs (was using 50's) both off good blocks.
2 rope slings and SS ring or maillon on each would be ideal.
Not that intrusive really.
Nothings perfect.
IIRC 2 abs (was using 50's) both off good blocks.
2 rope slings and SS ring or maillon on each would be ideal.
Not that intrusive really.
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In reply to Rick Graham:
Yes we did it in two abs, but there was a lot of old, and very old, tat at both abs. We cut all that away and left two newish rope slings, taking the decaying old tat down with us. Couldn't help thinking at the time that a couple of in situ bolts would have been preferable.
Yes we did it in two abs, but there was a lot of old, and very old, tat at both abs. We cut all that away and left two newish rope slings, taking the decaying old tat down with us. Couldn't help thinking at the time that a couple of in situ bolts would have been preferable.
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In reply to Rick Graham:
I brought a rope to replace all the tat on the top but unfortunately left it in the car so couldn't swap it out. In my opinion the stack needs a good clean up and if I am back across I will do it but this seems unlikely in the near future.
I brought a rope to replace all the tat on the top but unfortunately left it in the car so couldn't swap it out. In my opinion the stack needs a good clean up and if I am back across I will do it but this seems unlikely in the near future.
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In reply to Dangerous Dave:
Good work. If, as a result of this thread, just a few people take on the responsibility of stripping and replacing the tat in such places, the problem will have been solved - and hopefully the misguided suggestions of bolts will end. I now wish I had tidied up the top of Am Buachaille a few weeks ago. Next time I climb a stack I shall take a good knife and a length of 11mm rope.
> I brought a rope to replace all the tat on the top but unfortunately left it in the car so couldn't swap it out. In my opinion the stack needs a good clean up and if I am back across I will do it but this seems unlikely in the near future.
Good work. If, as a result of this thread, just a few people take on the responsibility of stripping and replacing the tat in such places, the problem will have been solved - and hopefully the misguided suggestions of bolts will end. I now wish I had tidied up the top of Am Buachaille a few weeks ago. Next time I climb a stack I shall take a good knife and a length of 11mm rope.
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In reply to Trangia:
At least with 'tat' you can see the state of it. And it's easier to replace. Not so with the hidden parts of bolts, or pegs. I also agree with RD's earlier posts . Part of the whole climbing experience was swimming the channel.
> Yes we did it in two abs, but there was a lot of old, and very old, tat at both abs. We cut all that away and left two newish rope slings, taking the decaying old tat down with us. Couldn't help thinking at the time that a couple of in situ bolts would have been preferable.
At least with 'tat' you can see the state of it. And it's easier to replace. Not so with the hidden parts of bolts, or pegs. I also agree with RD's earlier posts . Part of the whole climbing experience was swimming the channel.
Post edited at 12:56
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