UKH

Looking at this:

https://zipline.systems/index.php/lanyards-zip-tethers/kong-k-k-r-via-ferra...

The loose brake cable after the friction plate (which is often contained in a sheath on some kits)... what is the best thing to do with this? Do i just leave it hanging, clip it to my gear loop with the plastic karabiner or neatly tidy it with some elastic bands and then clip to gear loop?

Any advice would be most appreciated!

Cheers,

JP

In reply to yr99jparkin:

God, that doesn't look comfy to fall on! I'd be looking more at the offerings from Edelrid etc...

In reply to MischaHY:

Fall? Via ferrata? *shudders*

Clip it to your gear loop with some velcro or similar. Just make sure it comes off as in the event of a fall you want that break cable to extend. To that end make sure you don't pass it around your waist.

It's an older design but the one I've been using for many years.

P.S - Don't fall off...

In reply to thommi:

This is a real reaction!

In reply to yr99jparkin:

Those Kong plates are available separately and much cheaper. Just thread with dynamic rope.

In reply to yr99jparkin:

Thanks all. Much appreciated. Kit come with a cheap flimsy plastic karabiner on the end of the brake rope which presumably would snap off if it came to it...

Any idea of there is a need for a knot at the bottom of the brake rope for stopper purposes? Or does the manufacturers stitched loop suffice for this? I gather that sliding off the end of the rope is HIGHLY unlikely and if you did, the forces involved would mean you would be in bits anyway!

In reply to yr99jparkin:

sticthing is fine/better - strong and not bulky

In reply to yr99jparkin:

The best thing is not to use one of those old style kits (didn't know anyone was still selling them!) and to buy a modern one with a stitched shock absorber.

And DON'T fall off. A VF kit is there to give you a hope of being plucked off by a helicopter rather than being splatted on the valley floor. If you think you are likely to, time to get the rope out and pitch the hard section.

In reply to yr99jparkin:

Read lots of different arguments about the pros and cons of the two different Y type lanyards, i.e friction plate and ripstop. Seems a little unfair to classify the friction plates as redundant or superseded by ripstop designs? Both have pros and cons right? I actually own a pair of Petzl ripstop lanyards but they are far away from my current location so have had to borrow this Kong kit for the weekend ahead!

Friction plate
Brake rope annoyance - C
Re-use after fall (ish) - P
Less gentle energy absorption - C

Rip stop
One time use - C
More compact - P
More gentl energy absorption - P (but from what I read... a serious fall on either type is real bad news)

In reply to yr99jparkin:

Not really, because they *have* been superceded in Europe. The "screamer" design allows a much more precise calculation of force, the rope design is a very crude thing.

FWIW, ALL VF kits are single-use. Have you seen the state of the brake-plate ones after deployment? The sheath gets shredded.

Falling on VF is mainly bad news because you'll get smashed up as you hit things on the way down, by the way, it's less about the type of kit used (provided you are not stupid enough to use a setup without a shock absorber, in which case you might as well just solo).

In reply to Neil Williams:

I can imagine. When I picked them up last night its clear as day that the sheath isnt going to hold up under any sort of significant stress!

Time to focus my thinking on the weather now! Thanks for all the help and advice guys.

In reply to yr99jparkin:

The reason people no longer use the friction plate design is because the rope slipped well when it was new but after use the rope inevitably became fuzzy and stiff and was creating dangerously high impact forces. The new ones are better in that sense, but yeah the old ones will still do an ok job if well maintained.

In reply to Deadeye:

Yes they are. But they must be set up correctly, using K rated via ferrata karabiners which are designed to withstand a side loading. Standard karabiners, especially light climbing biners will snap like carrots. Don't do it kids!

In reply to James Rushforth:


Oh come on...if you don't fall off your not trying hard enough

In reply to Neil Williams:

They haven't been superceded, quite a number of manufacturers including Kong still make them. Also Mammut and Salewa off the top of my head. As stated otherwisethe issue is the rope getting fluffy and then providing too much friction. However if they are protected by a fabric covering, this prevents wear and they will work just as well. Or regular replacement of the rope and it'll be fine.

In reply to beardy mike:

They are neither on sale on Mammut's nor Salewa's website. Kong appear to sell the braking device alone but not pre-made kits.

I think that says to me they have been superceded.

In reply to Neil Williams:

Heres two from Kong.
https://www.kong.it/en/2-products/items/c2-sport/f8-ferrata-kit/p319-kke-ko...
https://www.kong.it/en/2-products/items/c2-sport/f8-ferrata-kit/p320-kkr-ko...

I can't find reference to it but I'm sure I saw one from Mammut based on slings to meet the new UIAA standard which only came out in January, so perhaps not released yet? Yes there are fewer but there are some...

In reply to beardy mike:


I guess all of this looks at worst case - a free fall with no friction and then abrupt stop.
In reality on VF that would be rare - a slither is much less energetic than a free fall, and there are several energy absorbing elements if the worst happens - harness, wire flexing, clothing?

I understand the side-loading; presumably mitigated with steel krabs?

In reply to Deadeye:

I have no idea whether they would be mitigated by steel krabs and neither do the manufacturers of steel crabs. But seeing as most people don't own steel crabs the most likely scenario is that someone will use aluminium climbing crabs instead. Minimum falls on via ferreta are severe, whether sliding or not. Why take the risk of you don't need to? It's only a few quid to buy the right biners loose.

In reply to beardy mike:

Well superceded might not be the right word but they sure have disappeared from the market at a fair rate. There´ s a list of all the ones that were recalled in 2013;- https://www.bergfreunde.de/basislager/ruckruf-klettersteigsets-mit-seilbrem... and mostly they have been replaced with the screamer type.

In reply to beardy mike:
Or just buy a set. They are not expensive and you know they are set up correctly to work safely (or as safely as is possible on VF, bearing in mind the significant risk of injury in any fall).

I can't see any significant advantage in a DIY job.

In reply to beardy mike:

(snipped as UKC messed the URLs up)

Cheers for those, I think I missed them because the rope is packaged like the slings are, I've not seen one like that before.

I sort of stand corrected, but they are still not a mainstream option.

In reply to jimtitt:

Well OK - that's a different thing though isn't it, superceding implies that as a method its obselete, which it's not. Most likely the screamer method is cheaper to produce than a forged hardware item plus a bunch of rope slings which are awkward to sew. As I say, I am sure I saw a Mammut product that used a sling in conjuction with a friction plate rather than rope which was due for release as they had worked out a way to make the impact force progressive. May not have been released or may have been dropped, I don't know.

In reply to Neil Williams:

I would tend to agree about DIY jobs - it's just that certain sectors of the market seem insistant that they can do a better job by themselves. The might as well do the right job if they are going to do it at all

As for standing corrected - I do too. I'd not looked at Salewa for a year or so and it looks like its been dropped, mainly for the Ergotec. So they are rather numbered!

In reply to beardy mike:

I was talking to the Climbing Technology guys a few years back when the standard was being hastly revised due to the elastic sling issues and the advantage of the rope system is if you take a fall and it deploys you can re-thread and continue with a certain amount of safety whereas the screamer type you have no more protection to continue the klettersteig (there was a guy killed last year due to this). The downside is the major market is hire/commercial trips and if they have been deployed the operators may well re-thread and continue to issue it to customers which is a definate no-no for PSA. A two-stage system is about the only realistic solution but then price and bulk becomes an issue .

In reply to jimtitt:
Yeah, I guess if you're using a modern set it's best to carry a rope so you could ab off or pitch some sections in the event of it deploying.

Probably sensible anyway.