UKH

For me it would be;

- Exposue and position
- Variety of moves
- Solid enough gear to prevent decking out
- Continous clean rock
- The line it takes
- Being the right level of difficulty (which for me means that I know I'll be capable of climbing it, but hard enough that I might also fall off)

Would be interested to find out what others look for when selecting a trad climb?

In reply to JackM92:

and situation. seacliff, mountain crag or natural outcrop overlooking a sweeping valley scores points over grotty quarry or semi urban craglet

In reply to JackM92:

A feeling of adventure - real or perceived

In reply to JackM92:

No queues of punters, making you feel that you have to rush the experience

In reply to JackM92:

To the existing list I'd add a memorable crux.

In reply to JackM92:
The crux at what ever the grade looks improbable, but when you do it, it all comes together and feels "right"

In reply to JackM92:

The weather, the partner, the banter.

In reply to JackM92:
Personally I enjoy the excitement of a bit of a run-out, but this is not everyone's cup of tea.

I'd also add, a lack of polish, and a quiet peaceful setting.

It's good when a route has a nice flow to the moves.

In reply to JackM92:

To line (very important!), quality of rock/moves etc., I'd have to add history. Nothing wrong with routes I just like the look of, but no doubt I'm drawn to classics for their history as well as their lines.

In reply to JackM92:

Bolts.

In reply to JackM92:

The proximity of a good post climb drinking venue.

In reply to JackM92:
My favourite routes always have bilberries on them. Make a move, eat bilberries, chalk up, make a move.
Without bilberries it'll never be a 3 star route.

In reply to The Ivanator:

I half agree with having "a memorable crux", yet some of the best pitches are sustained to the point that a crux move can't be clearly defined.

In reply to John Stainforth:


Maybe this is the point: a trad route is different (sometimes completely different) to the last trad route you did.

In reply to JackM92:

It's got to be covered in mud and falling down. Being totally misgraded (sandbag, not soft-touch), 2h walk up a hill, and in a location where it's always cold and wet no matter what the forecast also help.

This is why I moved to the Lakes!

[Joking, Lakes climbing is amazing - you just have to be prepared to get your hands dirty].

In reply to GrahamD:


Or often completely different to the last time you did the very same route!

In reply to JackM92:

More seriously, for me the best routes have:

- Good rock. Really important. Climbing good rock is a tactile pleasure: Pavey rhyolite, Diabaig gneiss, Slipstones grit etc. Climbing polished limestone on the other hand makes me feel depressed.

- Exciting moves. It doesn't need to be too technical (I'll get confused and it'll take me hours) but I want to be doing something challenging in a position of exposure. Safe or bold, both are good.

- Spectacular setting. Mountains or seacliffs. Not quarries.

In reply to JackM92:

For me solid gear is more like a pre-requisite to be on it, but that's because I'm very new at it.

But I have the most fun when I'm in a scenic location, and the route has a variety of styles. I did Lyneggen (n5-) a few weeks ago, and in 5 pitches it had everything from slab to offwidth to arête climbing, and very different difficulties. Also pretty exposed at one point, but I was too afraid to focus on anything but "UP" at that point.

In reply to deacondeacon:


Try Fairy Cave Quarry at the right time of year - wild strawberries !!

In reply to pebbles:


Yes, when you're sat at the belay its nice to have a pleasant view but you're not looking at the scenery while you're negotiating the crux. That's why for me Complete Streaker (VS 4c) at Denham Quarry is one of the most enjoyable routes I've had the pleasure to lead. Despite being in a "grotty quarry" the line and terrain were astonishing for the grade.

Maybe that's what makes a classic; impressive terrain for the grade, thinking DOWH and The Sloth as good examples.

In reply to Greenbanks:


We're all punters with the same passion

In reply to JackM92:

Good anchors for a top-rope

In reply to JackM92:

Difficulty that escalates so subtley you get into hard moves without having the time the think about and back off them. I hate climbs with committing moves. +1 for no polish too.

In reply to radddogg:

nah, it still affects the whole ambience. sprayed graffitti on the rock, dogshit in the grass and crushed tin cans stuffed into cracks, or nowt but the sound of curlews and grouse? I know which I prefer. But each to their own

In reply to JackM92:

for me-

free parking
a decent walk in - 1 to 2 miles through nice natural landscape
some exposure
ability to walk out at the end
variety of grades nearby to add optional challenge/ easier climb if its an 'off day'

In reply to JackM92:

I've also remembered...having a bit of an epic, for one reason or another, so that a range of mountain skills have been drawn on to secure the route

In reply to JackM92:

What makes a trad route good? The same things as what makes any route good - line, quality of rock, interesting moves, impressive situations etc. I wouldn't say gear or lack thereof is a key factor (hard to compare a stunning crackline with a great slab climb), but in addition to "the same things as what makes any route good", not having bolts definitely helps.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Run-out or laced when you have a gear placement it is a proper one, not to be thinking about the 5m fall + maybe the cam won't bite the flared groove, then it will be 10m and the gear below that was alright... better to just be thinking about the 5m fall

Having said that I love grit and granite slabs!

In reply to trouserburp:

I'd tend to agree. Generally prefer runouts above good gear to plenty protection but of the dubious variety!

In reply to JackM92:

To your list I would also add

Fun

In reply to JackM92:

There really is only one thing. The LINE.

Funnily enough, Patagucci seems to agree as their sponsored athletes are writing to a blog called The Cleanest Line.

In reply to JackM92:

For me its got to present me with a puzzle.
If its a puzzle above spaced gear it focuses the mind even more.

An example would be Bramcrag Quarry of all places. I really enjoyed Eastern Promise (Trad) (E2 5b) which is probably one of the few trad routes still possible there now as the rest has been bolted. Its a great slab route relying on good but spaced microwires for protection. Probably only 6a+ if it were bolted but a much better experience as an E2 5b and one that I remember now 3 years after I first climbed it. I certainly can't say that for the rest of the bolted routes there.

Overcoming the fear and training your head is whats its all about.
Situation helps, if its a steep puzzle above the sea and you have to make snap decisions to either get on with it or back off then that too is very rewarding. I've had some of my best trad experiences on sea cliffs where all your skills as a trad climber are bought into play.

Quality of rock, line etc really don't have that much to do with it for me.

In reply to JackM92:

One word "Cloggy"

In reply to JackM92:
The unexpected! Great when you manage to lace up a pitch that has a reputation of being bold. Or finding the climbing much harder than described, or finding the route description is rubbish and you have to work it out for yourself.
Finding a top quality route that has no stars in the guidebook.
Long live the poor description.

Agree with lots of things already mentioned.

In reply to Dave Ferguson:


That's pretty left-field! I'm guessing you've done some classic actual Lakes E2s like Astra (talk about puzzle!), Saxon, Tumbleweed, Samba, Bloodhound, Equus, Fastburn, Central Pillar, Ichabod, Aphasia...

And yet the stand-out route is at Bram? I'm struggling!

In reply to Jon Stewart:

No Its not "the" stand out route, as you say Saxon would be that. and yes Bloodhound, Tumbleweed, Central Pillar Aphasia etc are much better routes and experiences.

I guess I was trying to make the point (not very well) that a trad route experience that is challenging and provides a puzzle above stacked RP's is so much better as an experience than a sport route above a bolt.

I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't agree, but thats why I like climbing.

I agree Bloodhound is a great route of its type with "just" enough gear to keep you progressing forward. This actually may be the secret. Weighing up whether or not to continue upwards onto ground you know you will find challenging on spaced or marginal gear. That feeling of getting it right really can't be beaten.

In reply to JackM92:

A subtle one from me - but the belay at the top has to be good. I actually really enjoy belaying after I've just done a great lead. It's one of the few times I feel truly relaxed and content, and can smile and enjoy the view. If I'm squatting in a patch of nettles, sitting in a puddle, attached mostly via imagination to some loose blocks or don't have a good view - it's just not as good.

In reply to JackM92:

Jamming. Obviously.

In reply to Dave Ferguson:

Totally agree. But I thought you may as well solo Bloodhound, it's just an uncomfortable experience for the belayer. The few bits that have meaningful gear just aren't difficult!

In reply to BC:

That's what made me think of the post - Shrike had everything apart from the technicality of Tremadog, was wondering what it was about it that made it so enjoyable.

In reply to JackM92:

I agree with these:
(with the proviso that many sea cliff lines can have a fair amount of lichen between the holds and still be fantastic)

But disagree with these:
I know plenty of fantastic lines that you would never want to fall off of.
I can climb a route well below my grade and still think it is a fantastic line and really enjoy doing it. Infact, while in the moment, I probably enjoy a route that is fairly easy more than one that is at my limit (the payoff for one at my limit more comes after I've done it).

I would add:
- That a line is historically famous or even that it is presently very talked about/famous in my peer group.
- Dries out. It doesn't need to be quick to dry, it can be very slow to dry but for me personally I disagree with routes getting a full 4 star rating when they are literally NEVER dry and if you want to climb them, you have to be prepared to wrestle with the gop.
- Of a rock type and climbing style that doesn't turn me off. This is a very personal thing and will vary for everyone but for me, for example, anything on quarried dolorite or glacier-polished granite or with splitter hand/fist jamming is going to struggle to get a thumbs up from me while a crimpfest on gneiss or hard sandstone is going to turn me on even if "objectively" it lacks other things that would make it great.

In reply to JackM92:

Generally I would look for:

- Good clean rock
- Long enough to be worth climbing it (I prefer 20m+)
- At the level I find interesting but not super scary, meaning harder (for me) moves are all well protected, runout on easier sections is fine as long as you won't deck.
- Great views/position
- Interesting holds, rock formations etc
- Multipitch is always a bonus

I climbed Sinew (HVS 5a) last night, I think it scores fairly high except for the chossy top

In reply to JackM92:

Situation, purity of line, quality of climbing

In reply to JackM92:

1. a strong line.
2. at any grade, a sequence of moves that keeps you searching but is appropriate for said grade.
3. adequate (as used per guidebook) gear as a minimum.
4. not chossy rock.
5. situation
6. history

is waht I look for in a trad route.

In reply to JackM92:

Sounds like you described Centurion and Vulcan Wall (for me - an HVS leader) to a tee!

M

In reply to deacondeacon:

If there are that many bilberries they must have been pre placed, and so i doubt it was climbed very ethically, even if someone abbed it for you to preplace them.
Unless pre placing them off route like on an arcade game, which would make it harder, so that would count as a truly astounding type of clean ascent, reserved for only the elite billberry climbers club.