UKH

Hi,

So I've been doing a lot more camping on my own recently. Well, still with people, but sleeping on my own. But I'm finding it redonculously cold at night!

I know people will say 'Well get yourself a better sleeping bag boy!', but I genuinely don't think it's that.

The tent I use is an MSR Hubba Hubba. It's a great tent that so quick to put up and take down, and it's never let me down yet! But the way the outer flysheet pitches away from the inner, there just a massive air space for a breeze to flow through.

Have people found this with any other tents? Or is it just me?

Do you have any recommendations for a tent that might be better, in our warm old sunny British climate?

Thanks

In reply to martinturner:

Does it have a partially mesh inner? Also, it's a trade off between air circulation for condensation reduction and draft exclusion. If the fly comes down to the ground you'll get less drafts but more condensation.

In reply to martinturner:

I think you may have something there. The old fabric Force 10 tents were much warmer than modern lightweight tents made from man made materials. I've not yet found a tent of manmade materials that's anything like as warm, and I've solved the problem with a better sleeping bag (PHD) and better ground insulation.

Another tip is to add some boiling water to a Sig bottle and use it like a hot water bottle inside your sleeping bag when you turn in. In fact it's so hot you have to wrap it in a T shirt so that it doesn't scorch your skin, but it's really snug

In reply to martinturner:
I could be what you're sleeping on rather than your tent or bag. I always slept cold in my TN Voyager, even with a Rab 600 Quantum Endurance. Changed to an Exped downmat from a Alpkit self inflating mat and it made a massive difference.

In reply to martinturner:

Looking at this Hubba Hubba tent online it does look to have a huge amount of mesh making up the inner. Mesh isn't very warm and I'd always be inclined to use a tent with a solid inner tent in the UK save in very warm conditions. It will cut down on cold wind and provide some level of extra insulation, but bear in mind tents are supposed to have a gap and a flow through of air between inner and outer to provide ventilation/ reduce condensation.

Tent size is also a factor- tents with a large interior volume won't warm up into a cosy fug as readily as a small tent.

But I'd say the mesh inner is the principal problem.

In reply to martinturner:

I've got an MSR tent (elixir)and find it colder due to the mesh, one particular night of wet windy weather I found it really miserably cold as it also felt really damp with water being blown through the mesh, really good tents in the summer or the continent but not really designed for a British climate

In reply to martinturner:

I have a Luxe Outdoor "copy" of the Hubba Hubba, and it is a very breezy tent inside. The inner is mostly mesh, doesn't retain warm air, and lets breezes through. Great for what I bought it for, summer canoe camping where there are mozzies or midges, and free standing for camping where pegs are difficult to use, but in winter I have to up-spec what sleeping bag I use. Its also a bugger to get out of the sleeping bag in the morning as the tent feels so cold! The slightly curved ends to the flysheet don't help.

On the other hand, in summer its a delight to use, when others are sweltering. Its also great that can be pitched inner or outer only, and weighs very little for a free standing 2 (friendly) person tent.

The other factor will be that the smaller the tent, the warmer it will keep you as there's less trapped air for your body heat to warm. The Hubba Hubba's generous porches and the fact its a two-person tent won't be helping.

In reply to martinturner:

I'm another MSR Elixir user. its a similar design to the Hubba Hubba (but cheaper and heavier) with loads of mesh on the inner. The first time I used it was about +4C but blowing a gale. The tent felt really drafty and I was surprised that I felt cold in a Bag rated at -5C ! I got the tent for summer wild camping trips and for that its great but if its cold and windy id likely leave it at home and use something with less mesh.

Lee

In reply to martinturner:

It's all about the air flow. My TN Voyager and Big Agnes Seedhouse tents are both similar sizes but the Big Agnes is much lighter, thanks to a full-mesh walls on the inner tent. This makes it MUCH colder to sleep in so it's purely a summer (and mountain marathon) tent.

In reply to martinturner:

Not sure it's really the tent. I solo wildcamp about 7 times each winter, and rarely feel cold now. Top tips....

Eat plenty

Last thing go for a nice brisk jog up the hill for a wee. Good 10 min walk will warm you up (even a good sleep bag doesn't make you warm if you go to bed cold)

Boil a pan of water, pour it into sigg bottle, put sigg in walking sock and place as hot water bottle in sleeping bag for tootsies

Only wear base layers in the bag, plus a hat or on a real cold one a balaclava

For many years I camped as above down to about minus 10 in a tent with a fully mesh sided inner. I now have a more suitable one but it doesn't make that much difference. Your body isn't really sufficient to warm the whole of the inside of the tent, no matter how draft proof it is!

In reply to martinturner:

The MSR Access 2 is OK - it's warmer than other tents I use regularly. I'm using it tonight on the side of the Glyders again and I'm expecting a warm night.

Mesh percentage in the inner does make a difference, and also how closely the flysheet comes to the ground. The trend now seems to be to leave a gap under all edges, allowing wind to get up between the two.

Some idiot with a beard reviewed it here:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=9385

Cheers for all the replies everyone!

The common theme seems to be about the large mesh inner, and I think your right. Also having the two large spaces either side doesn't help too much either.

As mentioned about what I sleep on, I have a wild mixture of sleeping beds/mats, and I've mixed them up on various occasions. But to no avail.

Looks like I'm just going to HAVE to invest in another tent, what a shame!
(Don't you just love justifying things to yourself!)

Anybody got any reccomendations?
Ideally just for myself, but with a little moving room? Maybe enough room for a pack and the Spaniel! She comes now and again.
Ideally a 'flysheet first' or an 'all in one' erection, and lightweight enough to strap to the pack.

Thanks again guys! Great response!

In reply to london_huddy:

Mesh is actually heavier than lightweight fabric.

In reply to martinturner:

I have an MSR Hubba from about 8 or 10 years ago. If your Hubba Hubba is a similar design, I reckon there is very good chance you are noticing how breezy those tents are. The fly sheet doesn't come down very low and the inner is all mesh. Fine in summer but windy in winter. I've had both rain in the UK and powder snow in Finland blown under the fly and through the mesh inner - not a huge amount but enough to notice it. I find it more an issue before getting into my sleeping bag and zipping up to sleep, ultimately if you have a warm bag, once in it with the hood up etc. you'll probably be warm enough, but before sleeping and when getting up, its more like a bivvying/tarping experience!

MSR did an upgraded version of the Hubba range with mesh only at the top of the inner and I think slightly lower cut flys. I'm sure these are more suited for windy wet UK winter.

In reply to Andy Say:

But mesh is cheaper! Super light fabrics get properly pricy very quickly!
And the ventilation is often great! Camping in humid America last summer meant that every bit of ventilation which kept out mozzies was needed!

In reply to martinturner:

American backpacking tents generally have lots of mesh for lightness and ventilation, and are not very good for UK windy conditions. Their 4 season tents may be better. We use a Vango (not light) for UK and Big Agnes (very light) for Europe and NA. Big Agnes is an ideal fly and camp tent and has stood up to 10 hour thunderstorm.

In reply to IainL:


I've been using a couple of cheapish North Face tents with lots of mesh for years and never seen warmth as a problem. Where American tents do seem to suffer, however, is in not having the flysheet pegged as far down and out as is necessary to stop driving rain getting under it onto the inner. That and the lack of privacy when I just stick the freestanding inner up in hot weather or on rocky ground or in car parks!

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm in no doubt that in the correct conditions, it's great at what it does! I mean other than being a breezy tent, I've had nothing but good times with it. Putting it up and taking it down is a dream too.

But I just think I need something that's aimed more at the British weather.

In reply to martinturner:

Putting the hot Sigg bottle in between your thighs when you get into bed apparently helps to warm the blood as it flows around your body. You can't really sleep like that, but it helps with warmth/continued warmth on getting into the sleeping bag.

In reply to martinturner:

I'd rather assumed that the move towards a higher percentage of mesh was a response to condensation issues with man-made fabrics, a bit of a British weather thing?

In reply to Bob Kemp: possibly... however, high flysheet/ground gaps and large empty spaces eitherside, might not be?

In reply to martinturner:

Yeah, think you're right. I guess tent designers are thinking about a global market, not poor benighted drizzle-ridden Brits.