Last chance to oppose Welsh National Park protections!

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If you aren't aware of the issues facing Welsh National Parks, please take a few seconds to read: https://www.thebmc.co.uk/new-proposals-a-threat-to-welsh-national-parks

If you wish to do anything about it you need to act asap!
 Doug 05 Jun 2017
In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

unfortunately https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?t=664902 suggests that most on UKC are uninterested
In reply to Doug:

Oh dear - and I'm sure that wasn't the title I typed in!
 Offwidth 05 Jun 2017
In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

Toad's point in that thread on the comparison with the Aldery issue is very apt.
 Dave Williams 05 Jun 2017
In reply to Offwidth:

> Toad's point in that thread on the comparison with the Aldery issue is very apt.

+1

To me it is proof positive of the shallowness and parochialism of many/ most UKC contributors. Extremely sad and inward-looking IMHO.

Still, I've done what I can - emails sent to both constituency and regional AMs urging them to vote against the FLW report tomorrow.
In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

Thanks for the reminder Stephen, I've just got back from a couple of weeks in Ireland - will get this done now.
 winhill 05 Jun 2017
In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

> Last chance to oppose Welsh National Park protections!

Which protections are we opposing?
In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

I'd hate to walk on by without showing an interest so 2 questions

1. What specifically are we concerned about loosing?

2. Is there any point in lobbying from outside wales
 Dave Williams 05 Jun 2017
In reply to Dave Williams:

A quick and very comprehensive response (pro forma?) from one of the Labour AMs. An interesting take on matters, suggesting that those who oppose have misunderstood and are clearly totally misguided:

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"To Dave Williams Today at 16:51
Dear Mr Williams,
Thank you for contacting me on this important subject.
I very much agree that Wales’ National Parks and Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONBs) are of significant national importance and value. They are integral to Wales’ national identity and are recognised internationally as part of the global family of protected areas. We should all be proud that a quarter of Wales has been recognised for its outstanding natural beauty and is protected in this way.
These assets underpin Wales and Wales’s national wealth, are rightly described as national treasures and help to project Wales on the world stage. The distinctive landscapes, biodiversity and cultural heritage and historic environment they contain, remain vital and vibrant elements of the environmental, economic and social fabric of Wales.
There are tangible benefits from these areas of great natural beauty, and there are important advantages for the economy, health and wellbeing, the environment and the delivery of cultural services. Indeed, National Parks and AONBs have a valuable contribution to make to the green growth and natural resource management agenda.
The Welsh Labour Government is fully committed to the sustainable management of the three Welsh National Parks and five AONBs. Together, they cover around 25% of the land of wales.
The Welsh Government also recognises how important our natural environment is to the Welsh economy and to the wellbeing of the people of Wales. It wants designated areas in Wales to be thriving living landscapes containing vibrant, resilient communities with opportunities for outdoor recreation and rich ecosystems.
With regards to the Sandford principle, relates to the existing two duties of the National Parks to: conserve and enhance natural beauty and promote the enjoyment of the area.
When Lord Sandford undertook a review of the National Parks in 1974, the perceived threat to National Parks was from visitors and that this could lead to erosion and disturbance of nature etc. In this context the two purposes were seen as a set of potentially competing duties. Lord Sandford stated that should there be irreconcilable conflict, the conservation purpose takes primacy over promoting the enjoyment. This principle became enshrined in legislation in the Environment Act 1995. It has often been misrepresented as meaning that National Parks have a primary purpose for conservation and where the principle is a consideration in all decisions. This is not the case. The principle and its form in statute is limited to only a very narrow set of circumstances which rarely arise.
The Independent Review of Designated Landscapes in Wales report suggests exploring further aligning the aim of designation with the new Environment Act duty of sustainable management of natural resources. This would make increasing the resilience of ecosystems the central aim, with consequent benefits for wider social, economic and environmental well-being. The group which produced the report is also interested in refreshing and giving greater force to the special qualities of the existing areas and enabling new areas to come forward with their own proposals.
Inherent in this approach is a continued commitment to the value of these areas. This is why it recommended strengthening the status of special qualities in decision making which would extend any necessary safeguards beyond the limited scope of the current Sandford Principle.
Aligning the purpose of designation with sustainable management of natural resources, as proposed in the report, would remove any competing duties and so there would be no need for the Sandford Principle. The Welsh Government believes that we can move National Parks forward from narrow competing duties to something more integrated.
I will of course continue to do everything that I can to ensure that Wales’ much-loved National Parks and AONBs are in the best position to deliver the maximum benefits to Wales."
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The message would appear to be: Keep calm; all is well here in Wales .... In fact things are simply going to get even better.

So does 'sustainable management of existing resources' = more opportunities for zip lines; downhill MTB developments hand-in-hand with greater restrictions and more charges?

I've read the report in full. I have my opinion.


 Doug 05 Jun 2017
In reply to Dave Williams:

reads like an example of what my French colleagues would describe as 'langue de bois - superficially says the right words but no real content
In reply to John Clinch (Ampthill):

Well, it's all there on the BMC website if you click the link, but these paragraph sum it up for me:

Apart from being full of jargon and badly drafted, the final version [of the Future Landscapes Wales report] continues to give a deliberately false account of the important Marsden report which Welsh Government had previously side-lined. The Marsden report said we must keep a key conservation safeguard known as the Sandford Principle, so that National Parks and AONBs continue to be properly protected and managed for their natural beauty, wildlife and cultural heritage. None of these concepts can be found anywhere in the FLW report.

Without a clear restatement of the Sandford Principle, and without a clear commitment to the conservation of landscape, natural beauty, and wildlife, the National Parks in Wales could be relegated to a lower tier of Protected Landscapes as defined internationally by the IUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature). Welsh National Parks could become “hub” areas for the development of intensive tourism, renewable energy, and economic development, at the cost of protected landscapes and the promotion of quiet enjoyment that the national parks were established for.

And yes there is, tourism is estimated to bring £5.1 billion in the Welsh economy pa (their figure) so your voice does count.
In reply to Dave Williams:

Well - I read through all that and hardly understood a word of it I’m afraid! Too many words and hardly a single useful bit of information. What is it proposing? That farmers should be able to charge for access to footpaths, crags, open access land? That’s what it seems to hint at but it doesn’t say. Or that farmers should be able to open up caravan parks left, right and centre? Or put wind turbines all over the place? Or open up solar “parks”? It doesn’t say any of those things either. What is it asking for?! My suspicion is that it is a disguised plea for all these things plus zip wires etc to be plonked down wherever anyone thinks they can make some money out of them and damn the countryside and damn the wildlife.

Sustainable is one of the most overused and misused words in the English language at present I think. Read between the lines and you will see a carte blanche for all sorts of development.
 Dave Williams 05 Jun 2017
In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

> Well - I read through all that and hardly understood a word of it I’m afraid! Too many words and hardly a single useful bit of information.
I thought it was a classic case of 'bullshit baffles brains'. Very much toeing the (Labour) party line here in Wales.

> What is it proposing? That farmers should be able to charge for access to footpaths, crags, open access land? That’s what it seems to hint at but it doesn’t say. Or that farmers should be able to open up caravan parks left, right and centre? Or put wind turbines all over the place? Or open up solar “parks”? It doesn’t say any of those things either.
Many of those things are already stealthily happening, piece-meal fashion, with all local objections being over-ruled by Welsh Government. Funny that a lot of it seems to be happening on land owned by WG. I just wonder how many more wind farms, solar farms and adventure parks there'll be here in 5 years' time ...

> What is it asking for?! My suspicion is that it is a disguised plea for all these things plus zip wires etc to be plonked down wherever anyone thinks they can make some money out of them and damn the countryside and damn the wildlife.Sustainable is one of the most overused and misused words in the English language at present I think. Read between the lines and you will see a carte blanche for all sorts of development.
Again, this is a perfectly reasonable conclusion to make from reading the FLW report.
J1234 06 Jun 2017
In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

Hi Stephen,
I must admit I have not engaged with this, as to be frank I have not understood the issues. However I am sat here reading A H Griffins "A Lakeland Notebook" page 159. Here Griffin gives a succinct understanding of Sanford. Basically if there is a conflict, that natural beauty must tale precedence over human demands. (I think thats what it means. Which I agree with.
However as I am Lakes focused, will the UNESCO bid which I was unsure about, give the ELD the kind of protection Sanford called for.
 nigel n 06 Jun 2017
In reply to Dave Williams:

Try this one then!!

Dear Nigel,

Thank you for your contacting me concerning Welsh Assembly debate NDM6321, The Review of Designated Landscapes in Wales and the Future Landscapes: Delivering for Wales report by the Welsh Government.

I confirm that UKIP supports the Sandford Principle. A variant of the principle is enshrined in the 1995 Environment Act. We believe that it should have been included in both the report and the motion. We shall, therefore, be supporting Amendment 1 to the debate.

We do not believe that Welsh National Parks, whether designated Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty or not, should have their protected landscape and current nature spoiled by renewable energy developments and certain economic and tourist developments. We believe that nature and wildlife in this area should not be impacted. Moreover, we are totally opposed to any proposals to change the status of Welsh National Parks to that of Protected Landscapes.

UKIP Cymru has noticed that page 22 of the report says that, within eighteen months, it will:
“Take action to address perceptions of barriers to renewable energy development in Designated Landscapes and set a path to becoming champions of rural renewable energy development.”

UKIP Cymru will only consider endorsing renewable energy projects that meet the tests of affordability. The only projects which we have, so far, found to meet these tests, are tidal lagoons.

With best wishes and thank you for taking the trouble to contact me about these very important issues.


Melanie Hunter-Clarke
On behalf of Neil Hamilton
 Dave Williams 06 Jun 2017
In reply to nigel n:

Hah! You beat me to it as I had one of those this morning too. As a response I have to say it's a paragon of clarity and common sense compared to the truly awful dross received from the Labour AM.

The reference to the comment in the report about renewable energy developments being allowed within designated and protected landscapes is extremely concerning and has, as I understand, been included in the report after lobbying by land owners. Solar farm on the Elan Estate? A revival of the Pumlimon Fawr/ Nant y Moch wind farm (on land already owned by WG)? Even more HEP schemes?

To be fair, Neil Hamilton has a good track record in questioning Welsh Government ministers on matters environmental, often clashing with Lesley Griffiths, the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs, who has an air of superiority about her to say the least. Hamilton nearly always asks the right questions - despite the arrogant put-downs. For an example see 14.32 to 14.37 here: http://www.cynulliad.cymru/cy/bus-home/pages/rop-nolinks.aspx?meetingid=400...

No response from the Conservative AM, nor from Plaid Cymru; just a standard generic automated response from the Liberals. And they call this a democracy?!

Let's hope there's sufficient opposition to get this report amended today, otherwise feck knows what damaging changes will be wrought on Wales' NPs, National Nature Reserves and AONBs.
 MtnGeekUK 06 Jun 2017
In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

Has anyone seen / heard the outcome?
 Elfyn Jones 06 Jun 2017
In reply to MtnGeekUK:

Very quick response as I'm currently at the BMC Cymru area mtg....the outcome was very positive from the BMC and other recreational & conservation bodies perspective . I'll be putting a news update on the BMC website sometime tomorrow but in the meantime thanks to all who responded and got involved with this process...it really did make a difference.

Elfyn Jones
BMC Access & Conservation Officer (Wales)
pasbury 07 Jun 2017
In reply to MtnGeekUK:

Posted this in the news thread:

Debated yesterday and passed with an amendment to the effect that 'any change in the legislation governing National Parks should be taken through the Assembly as primary legislation'.

http://senedd.assembly.wales/ieIssueDetails.aspx?IId=19159&Opt=3

A chance for more scrutiny and exposure I hope - this whole issue came out of the blue.
In reply to pasbury:

Excellent - it's a start!
 Dave Williams 08 Jun 2017
In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

I've just received the following email which I thought I'd share as it puts a slightly different slant on the outcome of Tuesday's debate:

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" Thank you for your email regarding the Future Landscapes for Wales (FLW) Report which was debated in the National Assembly this week.

I have had a large number of emails on this issue, which shows just how important this this issue is to the people of my Montgomeryshire constituency. I hope you don’t mind me replying as one email to you all.

Mid Wales’ natural environment is one of its greatest assets. Such places of natural beauty are of local historic, spiritual and cultural importance, as well as their significance for wildlife and recreation.

I and the Welsh Conservative Party are keen to protect our country’s natural beauty and its incredible reputation around the world. Our designated landscapes play an important role in supporting our economy through tourism, outdoor recreation and supporting local jobs for our communities. As a result, it is paramount that the Welsh Government properly legislates to protect our national parks for years to come.

In recent years, the National Assembly has passed the Well-Being of Future Generations (Wales) Act and the Environment (Wales) Act, enshrining the need to protect and maintain Wales’ natural beauty. Indeed, I lead on and proposed amendments to the Environment (Wales) Bill which sought to ensure that landscapes were recognised as a legitimate element of the Bill’s natural resources management approach, ensuring that their importance and their characteristics are fairly considered and recognised as material considerations in the decision-making process.

In my view, this would have ensured that these natural resources are used in a responsible manner. Regrettably, the Welsh Government did not agree with the inclusion of landscapes on the face of the Bill. Nevertheless, it is vital that Government programmes like the Future Landscapes Wales initiative usher in substantive changes that promote our wider environmental goals. It is also vital that these programmes are held to account and properly scrutinised when they fall short.

On Tuesday, I and all members of the Conservative group supported amendments which 1) regretted that the report did not deal with the Sandford Principle and 2) that any change in the legislation governing National Parks should be taken through the Assembly as primary legislation. Regrettably, amendment 1 did not earn the support of the Welsh Government but amendment 2 was passed unanimously and the amended motion was also passed unanimously. It’s of course important to note, that this was a debate, and the vote was not binding on the government.

For my part, I will continue to stand up for Mid Wales’ rural communities, our national parks, and the protection of Wales’ environmental assets in the Fifth Assembly. The Sandford Principle has been a guiding principle of British environmentalism since it was first formulated in 1974, and I will work to ensure that it remains a cornerstone of environmental policy in Wales.

Kind regards,

Russell

Russell George AM / AC
Assembly Member for Montgomeryshire / Aelod Cynulliad dros Sir Drefaldwyn"
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It seems that continued vigilance is required, particularly re. how Welsh Government now decide to move forwards. The competing pressures on Welsh landscapes from those championing sustainable economic development and how WG will then respond leaves little or no room for complacency.

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