retrievable abseil: rope stuck

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 ElvisMax1 13 Apr 2017
Here's a scenario: you're pulling the rope on a retrievable abseil on intermediate grade climb and the knot becomes jammed in rocks about 15 or 20 meters above you. What do you do, besides curse?: (a) climb rope with prussic and clear jam and reset abseil; (b) solo to sight of jam and reset abseil; (c) other.
Any ideas?

 RhysRolfe 13 Apr 2017
In reply to ElvisMax1:

Safest thing to do is to lead up to the jam with the other end of the rope.
OP ElvisMax1 13 Apr 2017
In reply to RhysRolfe:

I was wondering about that (I meant to include it as option (d)). What do you do if you don't have enough slack in rope pulled through to leader climb to sight of jam?
 Toerag 13 Apr 2017
In reply to ElvisMax1:

Has anyone here been in this situation and had something go wrong whilst trying to retrieve the rope i.e. they had to climb up a stuck rope and it came unstuck mid-climb?
3
 jkarran 13 Apr 2017
In reply to ElvisMax1:

Re-lead the easiest line you can that allows you to access the jam using the tail of rope you have pulled down. Other less safe options exist.

Ascending a jammed rope is a *big* risk but sometimes one you have little choice but to take as with bolted multi-belay descents down smooth, off route rock. In that case either scream for help or test and ascend the rope with a back-rope self belay and continually weigh up your chances should the jam fail. There's always the chance you won't get enough gear in on your way up to stay safe should the jam clear and there's always the chance you'll arrive at the jam to find no belay, just a very bendy twig or sharp crystal!
jk
OP ElvisMax1 13 Apr 2017
In reply to Toerag:

Good question. This is the scenario I was most concerned about and the reason for my post.
 jkarran 13 Apr 2017
In reply to Toerag:

> Has anyone here been in this situation and had something go wrong whilst trying to retrieve the rope i.e. they had to climb up a stuck rope and it came unstuck mid-climb?

I've been 40m up a stuck rope, 400+m up, backroped but with no gear on it, shouting into the wind for those above to help me clear the jam. Finally over the buffeting I hear "Ok... we'll cut it free". Oh SHIT! Anyway, I got back to the belay before the ropes were dropped from above.
jk
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 john arran 13 Apr 2017
In reply to ElvisMax1:

> I was wondering about that (I meant to include it as option (d)). What do you do if you don't have enough slack in rope pulled through to leader climb to sight of jam?

You will always have enough rope to lead up to the loose end, after which you could either prusik up the doubled ab ropes or continue climbing but with prusiks as self-belay.
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 13 Apr 2017
MarkJH 13 Apr 2017
In reply to john arran:

> You will always have enough rope to lead up to the loose end, after which you could either prusik up the doubled ab ropes or continue climbing but with prusiks as self-belay.

Almost always....
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 Rob Exile Ward 13 Apr 2017
In reply to ElvisMax1:

Er ... I wouldn't prusik up a jammed rope unless it truly was the last resort and the alternative was literally death.

I would probably lead up to the rope jam using the spare end of the rope, belayed by my mate until that ran ou; , if that wasn't long enough then I would protect myself by attaching to the stuck rope with figure 8s until I reached the jam, then downclimb belayed by my mate again. Something like that.

I've only had to do it a couple of times, thank God!
OP ElvisMax1 13 Apr 2017
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Sounds like a nightmare worth avoiding. I'm fairly new to climbing multipitch routes. Lower grade and intermediate routes, although easier going up, with more and larger hand-holds, etc, strike me as being more likely environments for rope jams. I don't want to sound like a chicken, but, if you were looking down a route that looked potentially troublesome, would it make more sense to abseil down with just a single 50 meter rope and avoid the problem?
 Toerag 13 Apr 2017
In reply to john arran:

> You will always have enough rope to lead up to the loose end, after which you could either prusik up the doubled ab ropes or continue climbing but with prusiks as self-belay.

I'd not thought of that, but yes, you're pretty much right.
 nniff 13 Apr 2017
In reply to ElvisMax1:

You will have enough rope to lead up to the jam - whether that's by climbing the rock or the rope will depend on circumstances. The more gear you place, the better (but see below). You then need to think what you're going to do when you get to the jam. The loose end will not necessarily be in reach - out in space or still some way above you. If you're climbing the rope, you cannot climb above the jam in any case. If there's an alternative belay, you're in luck. If not, you're still in trouble.

If the knot is jammed and there is no alternative belay, you could cut the spare rope above the jam, descend and abandon the rope that you've just climbed and use your salvaged rope to descend the rest, but frankly now your risks are snowballing and you're in the business of identifying and taking the option that gives the best chance of being able to describe your epic over a beer.

In reply to ElvisMax1:

> Sounds like a nightmare worth avoiding. I'm fairly new to climbing multipitch routes. Lower grade and intermediate routes, although easier going up, with more and larger hand-holds, etc, strike me as being more likely environments for rope jams. I don't want to sound like a chicken, but, if you were looking down a route that looked potentially troublesome, would it make more sense to abseil down with just a single 50 meter rope and avoid the problem?

A single 50 meter rope isn't going to get you very far on a big route, and might not be long enough for some abseils. The main thing is to take extreme care in retrieving abseil ropes, making sure the rope doesn't go into any grooves etc. Flicking it as necessary to keep it in the best line, and flicking it over lips of overhangs etc. Make sure the other rope (going upwards as you pull) has not got any kinks in it. Often both climbers will be pulling the down rope, if there is significant friction at the top, to make it come as smoothly as possible.
 jkarran 13 Apr 2017
In reply to ElvisMax1:

> I don't want to sound like a chicken, but, if you were looking down a route that looked potentially troublesome, would it make more sense to abseil down with just a single 50 meter rope and avoid the problem?

They can still whip into cracks and around branches.

Ascending the rope is always worth avoiding even if it's back up to the solid ab belay, it'll almost always be sawing over an edge or bulge somewhere.
jk
 oldie 13 Apr 2017
In reply to john arran:


>"You will always have enough rope to lead up to the loose end, after which you could either prusik up the doubled ab ropes or continue climbing but with prusiks as self-belay."

I've always thought that prusik knots would possibly melt through if fallen on. Personally if choosing to climb up I'd go for Rob Exile Ward's suggestion of clipping into fig 8 knots using 2 krabs on belay loop unclipping and reclipping each alternately and placing runners along way (if necessary could even use fig 8 knots in free part of jammed rope as runners when reached). Probably be able to use an anchor near point of jam to retreat once rope freed.

In reply to ElvisMax1:

Never had to climb a jammed rope but had quite a few near misses solved by leading up on what we had. In my experience when the knot has jammed it has always been right at the top when we still had access to both ends and the ropes were still threaded through the ab point. This is annoying but it is relatively safe to climb the ropes (you just abbed on them). All the worst problems I have had occurred when the falling free end got snagged on something on the way down. This has happened to me much more frequently than knot jams. It happens a lot on easy angled faces covered with flakes or chicken heads and often when the wind blows the falling rope sideways across a line of potential snags. I think the risk of snagging can be reduced in thee circumstances by keeping abseils short (if possible). I have usually managed to free the rope by climbing up and getting to a place where it could be released. Just once I couldn't free one. It happened when preparing a multi-pitch new route. I was on my own, so no belayer, and the snag was above a section of as yet protectionless and ungardened loose rock that was way too dangerous to climb. Fortunately I had just enough rope to get to the ground on a single strand of what I had pulled through but I had to leave the rope in situ and come back later to retrieve it from above. On future solo visits I came with a spare rope just in case.

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