UKH

...or in my case even more slowly.

I'm looking to start upping the distance off road, with a view to doing 20+ mile runs as opposed to my usual half marathonish distances. I'm doing this more for fun and getting out further, rather than competitive running.

To lessen the likelyhood of injury a few people have suggested dropping the pace a bit when increasing the distance. Problem is I have 2 speeds, a 5k speed that hurts a lot and another pace for anything else. Running slower than that just feels odd and uncomfortable, so I tend to speed up to my 'usual' speed.

Any advice on this, plus ways to reduce the hammering on my quads on steep downhills?

In reply to Ridge:

Try nasal breathing. Unless you do it already, this is a great way to ensure your pace drops.

In reply to Ridge:

Wait a few years, you'll be slower. Worked for me just fine...

Run with someone slower is my proper tip and or use a great rate monitor or GPS watch. Set alarms..

In reply to Ridge:

I struggled with this when upping the distance.

The best solution I found was to monitor my heart rate, ensuring it remains within the cardio band. This has really helped me push the distance out quite a lot. I am slow though +20miles I'll probably average 11.5-12min miles on hilly trails.

I think the rule is to run at a pace you could hold down a conversation without labouring your breathing.

In reply to Ridge:

I run off road a lot and am even older than you. My way of keeping going now is to go to nice places, and change routes often, so that a run is frequently an adventure, where I don't know for sure how far it will be or whether I will find the way, and to just stop if I feel like it. I usually do hilly runs too, with about 100 ft / mile. That makes running slowly seem perfectly OK to me!

In reply to Ridge:

I sympathise - sounds like the same challenge I face.

I've not solved this yet, but running with others who are going at a slower pace can be part of the solution.

Also, getting rid of the guilt. What I mean is...

Whenever I go do a long run I tend to find myself trying to do best effort all the time. I kind of feel guilty if I slow down. It's almost as though I struggle to accept a slower time because it feels as though I could have done better. Sometimes you have to ditch that feeling and ease back - then you will find you can go further for longer. Bursting a gut is great for 5k but is unsustainable for long runs - especially trail and fell.

I'm on the brink of some long races Apr-June and my long runs need to build me up and not destroy me. So I'm having to compromise psychologically and it's not easy - but it's the only way I will survive!

Not sure if this helps, but good luck!

In reply to Ridge:
I'm a bit like that - I basically have "flat out" which works for a 5K and my sprint isn't much quicker (I don't do fast) and "anything from a 10k to an ultra pace" which is a lot slower but still not really that slow (if it becomes too much on a long distance I throw in some power walking to recover).

I think having more paces is just a case of working them out and training them in. I'm getting there with doing some more formal instructed running sessions.

Are you quite tall? I find that (as I can power-walk 11-12 minute miles) it is quite a lot of effort to think about reducing near that while still actually running rather than walking, as I have to take unnaturally short strides. But if I do think hard about it it does work.

In reply to Ridge:

I'm slow anyway, but due to injuries over the years I deliberately run slower than I can. I use a mobile app, and use the time tracker to tell me what speed I'm doing. If its faster than I want, I actually slow down further. I find my pace is a fairly steady plod whatever distance I do.
I still do reps at 5Km, but drop the speed for any further

In reply to Ridge:

I have the same trouble, running slowly is quite painful. I have taken to run/walking - running my slower pace for 5 minutes and then walking for 2-3 depending on what I an trying to achieve. This means that I have been able to push my distances out much faster than I ever could just running. I try to keep my HR in zone 3 or below.

I am training for hopefully enjoyable mountain races and so I am not too bothered about having some walking in the mix and I have been working really hard to keep my cadence up and keep good form which is very tricky when running at a bumbling pace!

In reply to Ridge: I would be loathe to drop into a really odd style if my aim was to avoid injury. The real reason would be to make things like 20 milers possible without needing three weeks to recover from.

How fast is your 5k pace, and your other pace? How's it feel 10, 20 secs per mile slower? If you use an HRM do you have min, max, 5k pace HR and other fin HR.

In reply to Ridge:
I'd run your natural pace, running too slow can change your gait and lead to injury problems.
Re downhills, fast feet, don't break too much but also just run more downhills and get stronger.

In reply to Ridge:

Have a look here, seems to work for me. I hated running until I started playing around with his methods.
https://philmaffetone.com/180-formula/

In reply to artif:
That's a different thing really. That's about being more efficient at certain heart rates rather than injury avoidance on long runs.

In reply to artif: well i can see that working for very long and steady runs, or at least worth experimenting with.

More thoughts for the op. I dont think running really slowly is going to actively reduce injuries - but it will hopefully reduce you being so tired that you develop , through fatigue, some bit of horrible biomechanics that will leave you sore injured. Id go with rr5's suggestions and just run a natural pace but consciousøy back off if you're tempted tompush harder at any point.

Re. Steep drops, sore quads - the easiest thing is to change the route to reduce them

The other part of my equation of actually trying to run is Eric Orton's book Cool Impossible. certainly the slant board and technique parts anyway.
Just to put this in to perspective i'm mid 40's and just started running last year as I really hated it that much, cycling has taken most of my time.

In reply to artif:


Yep, I am using this at the moment training for my first ultra (55k) and I am really enjoying the running. Not killing myself because running to heart rate. Time to admire the beautiful countryside I am running through, which of course is one of the main reasons for running off road.

In reply to Ridge:

Sore quads on downhills - had the same problem, due mainly to me overstriding. Try increasing your cadence going downhills, making sure you're driving with your arms properly as well and you can rule that out if it doesn't help...

In reply to All:

Thanks for all the really useful replies, and I've trying them out.

I think Rampikino has hit the nail on the head, it's a psychological thing to some extent, (especially if there are people about!).

I tried setting pace alarms, (don't have a HRM), but an inability to work out that I had to set the low pace and not the high pace had me confused for a while. It worked ok on the flat, but as I do hilly/undulating stuff it's a bit of a distraction. Reading some of the posts on this thread a HRM might be the way to go.

Roadrunners advice about not going over slow downhill works, as I actually seem to use more energy trying to keep artificially slow. Just need to work on my quads and technique, as I can't seem to get a fast enough cadence on the steep stuff.

Just got back from a 9.5 miler with 1900ft of ascent and a lot of boggy stuff, averaged 11:25 min miles by easing off a bit on the downhills and run/walking the steep bit (Crag Fell from Ennerdale). Felt easier than it usually does, and actually went quicker doing run/walk rather than trying to run the uphill.

Many thanks for all the advice, very much appreciated.