UKH

This is following on from the low wages in the outdoor industry thread.

I've seen ads on this site for outdoor-related-business managers. Wages from £18,000.

Now forgive my arithmetic, it may not be correct, but £18k for a manager seems like a pretty poor wage. Take a 52 week year, £18k = £346 per week. Lets assume that a manager works longer hours than non management, say 50 hours per week. That equals £6.92 per hour. Less than the living wage, for management?

Is this a route to 'proper management' jobs or something else?

£346 feels more like a day rate than a managers weekly pay.

Is this normal?

In reply to estivoautumnal:

I'm sure it's not too different in large parts of the retail sector, I've no doubt the salary is based on working week of less than 50 hours.

In reply to estivoautumnal:

Sounds normal for retail, where most of the non-management staff will be minimum wage or near it.

In reply to estivoautumnal:

I think the problem sometimes is that firms use the word manager when in the old fashioned sense of the word, it really isn't a management job, it's an enticement and with so many "managers" about, wages ain't what they used to be.

In reply to Denni:

It sits nicely on the cv next to the degree that isn't really needed for the job.

Years ago people would have had specialist titles relating to that job field, or been a team leader, senior, supervisor... now everyone is either a manager or consultant .

In reply to estivoautumnal:

That seems pretty standard in the service industry, there's certainly managerial roles out there that pay less. It's a competitve profession, more responsibility, harder work, longer hours and less pay? What's not to like?

The living wage is £8.45 btw (i think), minimum wage is £7.20 (£7.50 in april)

To be fair most small business owners aren't sunning themselves in the bahamas and topping up their swiss bank account while they exploit their staff. They pay what they can afford based on big overheads and the stingy amount of money people will complain about paying for their services. There are similarly skilled managerial roles in bigger companies within the service industry that will pay £25-40k pa and offer training and career progression. I'm talking about the likes of macdonalds, tesco etc. that everyone loves to hate but have a high enough turnover to pay decent wages and have big HR departments and legal beagals to make sure they comply with the most recent batch of half baked unrealistic employment legislation and at least on paper offer a career.

I remember seeing a job advert on here for a climbing wall manager, iirc they wanted a degree, minimum of SPA but preferably MIA, previous experience managing a busy climbing wall, evening and weekend work, "hands on role", no training offered along with the usual requirement of being able to pretend you're customer centric, a good comunicator and dynamic (whatever that means in an employment context). Oh and a salary less than £20k per year. In other words "must be incredibly amazing and willing to give the best years of their lives whoring themselves every evening and weekend for very little money". I imagine someone was sat behind a desk somewhere talking about skills shortages and wondering why they've only got applications from disgruntled unemployed twenty year olds with a 3rd in media studies and a genuine passion for customer service.

In reply to Sharp:

A few years after the crash of 2008 I was looking for work again. It was really noticable that what was once a Graduate role paying 22-30k with the prospect of decent on the job CPD was now a Graduate, preferrably Post Grad role, necessitating additional professional qualifications and 2 - 3 years experience, all for the princely sum of 18 - 25k

AKA pisstake

In reply to estivoautumnal:

Similar to many management jobs in the NHS. People complain and say 'stop paying managers and pay more to nurses'.
I worked as a contractor in the NHS (on a much better wage than the managers were on) and the NHS "managers" were managing beds, organising engineers to repair theatre equipment, ordering dressing, sutures, sheets etc - essential jobs that the medical staff didn't have time to do and shouldn't have been doing.
They often had a degree plus a compulsory level 4 professional qualification. Add on supervising and training junior staff, too, and all for about 17k, while a qualified nurse was earning way, way more.
There were *some* senior types on silly salaries but they were way in the minority.

In reply to Crispy haddock:

You surprise me. Grade 3 staff being described as managers? No shortage of poorly paid staff in the NHS, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone described as a manager who is less than Grade 5.