UKH

My new(ish) paramo got a good test on a route in sneachda yesterday. I hiked in with nothing underneath it and then layered up with a merino t shirt and a fleece jumper underneath. It worked brilliantly and despite being totally hooded / zipped up all day I was bone dry when I got back to the car. I'm realising now that I sound like a Paramo employee troll type person. I'm a recent convert to Paramo. If only the enduro jacket was 3 inches longer and had the Velcro tabs on the cuff the right way round; however, can't recommend it enough.

In reply to nomor esugar:

Oh, heck!... Here we go again

Like God, terrorism, and the grade of TPS, the merits - or otherwise - of Paramo is something of a recurring theme on UKC.

For what it's worth, I'm a fan.

In reply to Clauso:

I'm not surprised other people are feeling the love!

My long johns were wet after being being sealed in gore tex all day!

In reply to nomor esugar:


Was it raining? I'm quite often comfortable on dry days no matter what I wear.

In reply to BnB:


I'm reviewing the Paramo Enduro Tour Jacket and Trousers for UKC currently.

On Friday, for research purposes, I slogged up and down Snowdon in driving rain.

Back in Llanberis I was pretty dry and comfortable, not the clammy, sweaty mess I would have been in a conventional waterproof. My Goretex lined boots however were soaked through.

In reply to nomor esugar:

Yes, I always put mine on with a lot of confidence.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Even better than, say, a Crux Flak Jacket?

In reply to galpinos:


My Crux Torq Smock was out at the weekend and did a grand job in the cloud in the Langdales.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I thought I spotted you in Paramo on Instagram! Thought it seemed unlike your normal get up. But sounds successful? Interesting as it seems to split opinions so much.

In reply to TobyA:


I think if you run cold it's a really effective system. The number of fans can't be ignored. But for those of us who run hot Paramo feels like a heavy, sweaty, baggy encumbrance. There seems to be no middle ground.

In reply to BnB:

I'd agree that it's probably best suited to cooler/colder conditions. Personally, I find that it breathes better than some of the other usual suspects. I like it, and don't find the need to spend my day swapping layers about when I'm wearing it...

My only major concern is in regard to it's reliability. It hasn't happened to me - touch wood - but I've heard of some fairly spectacular tales of failure, that saw the wearer soaked through to the skin and essentially left wearing a sopping wet towel.

In reply to Clauso:

Could the slopping wet towel (ugh!) be due to the jacket needing a wash with the Nikwax stuff?
I agree that the enduro is best on cold days. Wearing it next to the skin for the trudge in was an ace move - I'll be sticking to that from now on!

In reply to nomor esugar:
Love my paramo enduro trousers in cold dry winter where they keep me warm, vent well even in windy conditions and let out any sweat or claminess after a brief stop.
Hate my paramo enduro trousers in non freezing wet conditions where I end up soaked after about 90 unpleasant minutes of gradually getting less and less comfortable...ending up cold and wet.

In conditions below freezing tho they're absolutely fantastic....just don't wear them in the rain...waterproof I'd say is creative marketing!

Ps I've been wet after reproofing, tried washing just with tech wash no proofer etc...90min moderate rain and it's sodden!

In reply to Pipecleaner:


This is my experience too even when freshly proofed.

In reply to nomor esugar:

I wore Paramo when it first came out, we got a half price deal at the outdoor centre I worked at in return for giving performance feedback. Essentially, it hasn't really changed much, and the clothing had some major advantages, but some disadvantages too. In summary:

Good: Robust and easy to repair, great for the dirty, messy outdoor centre environment. I'd wear it for almost any activity. Comfy, warm and kept you dry (up till a point). Compared to the rigid Gore jackets of the time, it was very wearable.

Bad: too warm sometimes even with full venting. Lets water in under pressure, so sitting down would get you a wet arse. 2nd gen salopettes added foam padding to counter this, always seemed a bit of a cumbersome bodge to me. Once the rain really pelts down, the water transport mechanism gets overpowered and you get soaked. I often ended up wearing my Paramo as a softshell (before such a thing was invented) and carried a light waterproof for back up.

I think if I ever went back to a job where I stood around in crap weather a lot I'd consider getting some Paramo, but these days I prefer the combo of R1 fleece hoody, windproof and lightweight Gore shell as I'm usually moving around.

In reply to DaveHK and Pipecleaner:

The friend who put me on to Paramo during a - for me - sodden walk across Dartmoor in ca. 1997 bought some new Cascada trousers recently and found that they "leaked" when they were straight out of the shop. He took them back and they were replaced, so I infer from that that faulty Paramo garments are known to get past their quality control.

Only time I've had problems is when I've not reproofed. And I use as light as possible Goretex in the Alps - Paramo is too hot and heavy.

In reply to Solaris:

There are plenty of stories of people sending hem back and being told there's nowt wrong with them. Plus, what could the QC issue be? It's not like there's a membrane. I think the difference of opinion on paramo is down to how people use it and their expectations.

In reply to BnB:

Though you say "us" my OH is a hot sweaty monster and has been loving paramo for 10-15 years.
I'm a chilly icicle and wear it too.

In reply to DaveHK:

So no harm in a story putting a different perspective then. I am not disputing anyone else's story.

No idea, I don't design or make the product - fabric? The trousers were bought from Taunton Leisure who have a good reputation, so maybe my inference is mistaken.

In reply to Clauso:


If it needs re-proofing you can get water coming through. Usually this doesn't happen all over the garment though. I've found it's the areas which get the most abrasion that leak first, e.g. around the knees, the bit your rucksack sits on over your shoulders. If you rewash/reproof at this point you shouldn't suffer from a catastrophic failure.

Paramo does rely on you generating some heat for the system to work thus I don't wear mine in the pissing rain if I know I'm going to be stood still for long periods. I learned this lesson the hard way when winter climbing in the rain where the water went through my trousers down my legs and I could pour it out of my boots at the end of the day

These days I don't winter climb in the rain but if I am going to be stood still in torrential rain I'll wear Goretex or a similar shell instead.

Personally, I think Paramo is great if used in the right conditions. The "right" conditions seems to vary from one individual to another though hence it's marmite like reputation.

In reply to nomor esugar:

I love my aspira smock and it's never leaked. The cascada trousers have though, even after reproofING.

In reply to nomor esugar:

I have a Paramo Enduro and I find pools of water in the pockets...
I put it down to condensation!!!

Other than that I love it, especially the fit.

Cheers
Euge

In reply to danm:


This ^ ,if you're walking in proper wet for a long time.

In reply to nomor esugar:

I have been wearing Paramo regularly for years. It works well although I sometimes get far too hot in it. There is a some Goretex in the cupboard but I get the Paramo free!

The Paramo concept is really the just the same as a Ventile smock over a woollen jumper. There's a wicking and warm-when-wet layer with a microfibre outer layer. Take a fleece shirt and add a proofed polyester or nylon microfibre smock on top and you have the same effect.

I have a Ventile single layer smock and also a Paramo Fuera which has replaced my trusty Berghaus Inverno (?) ('Airfoil') that lasted for years and years and saw many a bad winter hill day.

In reply to Jim Fraser:


'Nuff said.

In reply to nomor esugar:

As a sweaty git, I got fed up with the washing routine (needs doing after each trip because I sweat). Cleaning detergent out of the machine then running a Nikwax wash just for the Paramo then frequent reproofing.

Easier to wear a fleece and windproof or Buffalo or similar, get a bit wet, wash with normal detergent. No reproofing. Was only really useful when gently ambling about supervising D of E expeditions.

Sold my Paramo, except the Fuero windproof. May have a jacket still to sell somewhere in a box.

In reply to Ross McGibbon:

Always wash my Paramo in the bath...