UKH

Hi,

Looking at a trip to the Dolomites and thought about checking out some of the big Via Ferratas. It looks like the kit has changed a bit since I last looked? The leashes used to be a tight stich plate style with a small length or cord that would slip through and arrest a fall, but could be reset be pulling the rope back through. The new style seems to be all based on ripping stitched slings. Can these be reset? If they are single use, how would you safely get off in the event of a fall mid route?

Any help o recommendations appreciated.

Thanks

In reply to Sandstone Stickman:

If you manage to fall hard enough for it to deploy properly I doubt the single use issue will be much of an issue

In reply to Sandstone Stickman:

The old system has largely been discarded as they were found to be defective with wear of the rope lanyard which would fluff providing extra friction and then either dramatically increasing friction, or preventing it from working altogether. You can still get them from Kong and the rope is protected in a pouch. The sewn ones are much of a muchness. But as Cheese monkey correctly points out, if you fully deploy a VF kit. you won't be self evacuating. That indicates you will have had a massive fall and most likely will be critically injured. These are not a fall arrest system, they are a death prevention sysem...

In reply to beardy mike:

Mike (or anyone else), are you aware of anyone taking a sizeable fall on a ferrata? I'm sure there are users out there who think they are 'safe'

In reply to Mike-W-99:

I'm intrigued. I have never actually climbed a via-ferrata but I was under the impression that they are fairly "safe" and that one wears a VF-kit to guard against death in exceptional (i.e. not at all normal) circumstances.

I was under the impression that people typically wore a third sling to attach for resting purposes, at will, and, freed from any obligation to try and "red-point" the thing, falling was not the norm.

In reply to Xharlie:

On routes I've been on in the dolomites there's potential to fall upwards of 6 or 7 metres if you slip just before clipping past the next 'bolt'. Avoid doing this!

In reply to Mike-W-99:

It's not so much the actual impact of the fall that's the problem. If you think about bolts at maximum recommended spacing of 2 metres, a lanyard which is lets say 0.5m long, which extends to 2m when fully deployed (as is the case with some new kits which are desitgned for child use as well - you need more tape to account for a low rip strength), you're looking at a 4m fall down rock which is covered in metal pegs and stakes. Rather you than I... Yes falls are infrequent but they do occur - sorry I can't point you at stats. But know that VF is one of the biggest sectors in the industry and are being done by relatively inexperienced people who unlike most climbers, do not find the whole thing a trivial "restday" affair. I've seen some proper horror shows going on - people using ONLY chest harnesses and people using the Y style of frictional device with both karabiners clipped in (making it a semi-static lanyard), and one old boy pretty much having to hold his granddaughter onto th route from beneath, with his wife directly beneath him, all clippedinto one length of cable. This is not a trivial thing to be doing - you DO NOT want to fall. Add into this the age of some of the equipmnt out there...

In reply to Mike-W-99:

Have a look at this - youtube.com/watch?v=jOzhOs9SAws&

Ignore the fact that some of the systems don't actually break (!) just have a look at what happens to that lump of wood. Inwardly digest and then consider how you might be feeling if it was you

In reply to Cheese Monkey:

Indeed. It's not like falling on a dynamic climbing rope. The following article on the BMC website suggests that a factor 5 fall is not impossible:

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/get-into-via-ferrata-the-gear

You also come to an abrupt halt, if you fall from one anchor to another that could be 5-8m and you'll stop instantly with all the force going through your harness/spine. The ripper sling thingy will help a bit but it really doesn't bear thinking about.

Basically, don't fall off!

In reply to beardy mike:


The upside is that the components are visible. I wouldn't climb on a knackered rope and I'd chuck a similarly knackered VF set.

It is actually the 'new' designs that have been the subject of safety recall for what I can remember.

In reply to Mike-W-99:


Kurt Albert for one.

In reply to maxsmith:


How I wish I could fall upwards....... :0(

In reply to Mike-W-99:
I'm aware of two friends who were on the same VF when it was hit by a thunderstorm. One got off (at the top) just before, but the other was still on the wire lower down with no place to escape to when a lightening strike hit it. He was thrown off and caught by his VF kit. He was not the only one on the route at the time and as such this led to a rescue and he was taken to hospital.

In reply to Andy Say:

There were two seperate issues - I've linked Salewa's and others recall for their frictional devices - petzl issued an inspection instruction. The other recall was to do with elasticated lanyards which were being used intensively by hire shops and the tape was wearing out where it was all bunched together by the elastic. New sets have more redundancy by using heavier tape.

http://www.salewa.com/en/recall/
http://www.mammut.ch/documents/Kletterausruestung/Wichtige%20Hinweise/Vorso...
https://www.petzl.com/security/sport/recall/rope-friction-lanyard?language=...

In reply to Sandstone Stickman:


Sorry. We're all ignoring the question

No. They can't be reset. So you just climb off veeeeery carefully. If you are able (see above) to actually climb off. Bear in mind that a fall of up to four of five meters if goin g to be a bit of a shock no matter what lanyards you are using.

If you are carrying any rope (and that can actually be a very good idea) you may be able to bodge up some dynamic rope cow's tails which will be better than nothing.

Andy

In reply to Sandstone Stickman:

As others have said the potential fall factors involved in VF are scary and you see some terrifying miss-use of equipment, or improvised systems. Think of them like UK scrambling where falling off isn't really an option - yes the kit will stop you from decking, but the distance fallen (and the fact you will hit things on the way down) means you are going to be left in a mess.

IME (Dolomites) the fixed gear is usually good, especially on higher graded routes. The climbing difficulty of a VF grade 1-2 is probably similar to a UK grade 1 scramble. VF grade 3 I wouldn't want to do without protection, but again the chances of falling for someone with a climbing background are relatively low - do make sure you have a helmet, more chance of being brained by a falling rock than of falling off on some routes.

In reply to beardy mike:


Check out these 'Brits Abroad' on the Cima de Mezzo VF - with their home made kit... Mind boggling stupidity:
youtube.com/watch?v=nMBZVaxgJ4E&

In reply to 99ster:

Well it's pretty hard to tell from that. But from what I can see, they are (atleast on the kits I can see) using Kong KISA plates which are fine to use. However, there are a few obvious errors:

wanky old worn rope which will render the plates useless
standard karabiners which are not rated for a side loading like K rated VF biners
lanyards which are far too long, meaning they're likely to trip up
knots half way down the lanyards meaning the kisa plates will stop at the knots thus meaning they won't fully deploy and that's before you get to the sub exemplar belay at the end...

In reply to Sandstone Stickman:

Worst I saw were two lads climbing with a length of rope round their waist instead of a harness, and snapgate krabs on each tail to create lanyards. Not sure what would have failed first in the event of serious fall (rope, krabs, kidneys, spinal cord), but certainly wasn't too happy at having them climbing directly above us.

In reply to Sandstone Stickman:

Thanks for all the useful replies! Much appreciated, all makes sense and I can understand why they have evolved as they have. Certainly have no intention of falling off anyway, especially after seeing that testing video!

Cheers