Petzl headtorch run times

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 stouffer 24 Jan 2016

I couldn't resist a bit of post-payday gadget buying and have treated myself to the new Black Diamond Spot headtorch to replace my trusty old Tikka XP. I looked at the latest model Tikka XP but the battery life seems to be a bit of a joke - 2 hours on the high setting of 120 lumens. BD claim 50 hours at 200 lumens for the Spot. All Petzl's current torches seem to have similar run time stats. I'm not sure if I'm missing something; even if there's bit of spin in BD's claims the difference seems huge, why would you buy a headtorch with a 2 hour run time?

PS. I'm gonna keep the Tikka as a backup but noticed when I changed the batteries that the indicator light flashes green. Does it always do that? I honestly can't remember, it only gets used a couple of times each winter. It's the original one http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/product-reviews/petzl-tikka-xp---first-look/37...
Post edited at 21:57
 Wil Treasure 24 Jan 2016
In reply to stouffer:

The Black Diamond lamp won't give you 200 lumens for 50 hours. It will burn for 50 hours if you leave it on the highest setting, but that will drop off from 200 lumens after the first half an hour I would guess, and by the end of the 50 hours it will be just enough to read a book. BD used to print a graph on the side of the packaging to illustrate this.
OP stouffer 24 Jan 2016
In reply to drysori:

Both the box and manual make the 50 hours claim, but I just read a review saying BD measure run time in a naughty way... so maybe Petzl are just a bit more honest?
 Wil Treasure 24 Jan 2016
In reply to stouffer:

Petzl's may be more honest, but BD are not claiming it will give you 200 lumens for 50 hours.
 Brass Nipples 24 Jan 2016
In reply to stouffer:

That was a misprint it should be 50 seconds at 200 lumens..

In reply to Orgsm:

Bd Torches for the past few years have been Very Misleading! My new spot clearly claims 200 Lumens for 50 hours it's in Bold on the back of the Box more like 2 hours at best, great torch but that's misleading marketing bullshit at its finest
OP stouffer 25 Jan 2016
In reply to stevieweesaxs107:

Haha so it turns out I answered my own question when I asked who would buy a head torch with a 2 hour battery life?

Imagine if they applied the same principle to Camalots? A #2 will hold 14kn... but only for 10 seconds...
 Simon Caldwell 25 Jan 2016
In reply to stouffer:

> why would you buy a headtorch with a 2 hour run time?

If you only ever use it when you're expecting to be back within 2 hours? eg go climbing, climb until sunset, torch only needed for the walk back.

But in any case, you wouldn't usually need to have it on High all the time, normal mode lasts longer, you switch to High when you need to see a bit further.
 Iain Thow 25 Jan 2016
In reply to stouffer:

It may be 2 hrs with a 50m beam but it's 8hrs with a 30m one. How often do you need to see more than 100 feet?
1
 StuDoig 25 Jan 2016
In reply to stouffer:

Torch timings are a nightmare to interpret - have a search through the articles on here and theres a really good one from Petzl about how their timings work.

Most companies either make it up using their own standard ("useable light" is a common one), or use an ANSI standard which allows them to claim a run time from when they first switch it on, until it reaches 10% of it's max output. That's what black diamond use. So 200lumens will be the start illumination, 20 will be what you get after the stated time. It's normally a steep decay as well, so the bulk of that time will be spent in the lower ranges of light.

Petzl use their constant lighting tag on new torches - this means that you will get 120lumens for 2hrs, at which point it will drop to the emergency / limp home lightness (maybe 10-20 lumens range) - enough to see to walk down a path and you'll get a good few hours at that.

2hrs at full whack is a long time - there will be lower settings where you'll get much better life - you really don't need 120lumens for walking off after a climb.

I'd normally only be close to max settings for route finding (either climbing or nav) and then for very short bursts.

I've used my Tixxa RXP for overnight nav exercises and it was still alive at the end if that helps (in economy mode with occasional "boost" to pick out features).

For what it's worth - comparing my petzl Myo RXP with a BD Icon and Fenix HP11, I definitely prefer the Petzl. You get less battery life that the other 2 (fewer batteries) but not nearly the difference you'd expect looking at the figures.

So the main difference is that petzl are honest about what you'll get.

Also worth looking at regulated vs unregulated - regulated lights maintain a constant brightness for much longer, then drop off suddenly, un-regulated decay more steadily.

Cheers,

Stuart

colin1571 25 Jan 2016
In reply to stouffer:

I`m amazed headtorch manufacturers use such misleading figures as they could easily get people killed.

Good article here;- http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/a/11165/Why-Headlamp-Claims-are-Deceptive

also here:- https://www.petzl.com/INT/en/Professional/Managing-energy--different-approa...

According to Petzl :-

Notes: To obtain 100 lumens of brightness for 50 hours, for example, the equivalent of 75 AAA batteries would be required, translating to 1.1 kg on the head! Therefore, Petzl recommends that the user use caution when interpreting the impressive lighting performance claims made for some headlamps.

Colin
m0unt41n 25 Jan 2016
In reply to stouffer:

It would be far better if Black Diamond, Petzl and others actually designed their head torches for the real world and not for Outdoor Trade shows.

We wear gloves so the silly little buttons that BD and Petzl use are useless. We just want OFF / LOW / HIGH. Having a dozen different light levels plus flashing and colours just shows that the manufacturers only experience of cold and dark is between their cars and the pub. They can never have been on the hill in winter at night with their head torches, because if they had done they would never have put up with the nonsense they design.

They do have my sympathy since trying to keep up the standard of creating such bad design for so many years when every now and again, by accident, they are going to end up with something sensible and useful without realising it. I can see the panic that will ensue as they try to withdraw it before the market finds out and their reputation is tarnished forever.

The designers at outdoor equipment manufacturers should be made to repeat "If it is simple it is good, but if it is complicated it is stupid" before they do anything.
 StuDoig 25 Jan 2016
In reply to m0unt41n:

Agreed re: buttons - drives me mad that something as critical as the main interface is normally so badly thought out! Petzl's work range (e.g. Pixa3)have the right idea - big dial that you can work with heavy gloves on, and a mechanical lock so that it can't be accidentally triggered. Would love them to transfer that kind of practicality to their outdoor torches!

All demo videos should involve trying to switch it on, and between modes in dachsteins whilst being hosed down!

Stu.
 deanstonmassif 25 Jan 2016
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

I've been knicking my daughter's Petzl Tikka lately for winter climbing days and found it to be very effective. 2 power outputs mean you can manage on low power when belaying/climbing, then full power to scope out route or navigation spot checks. Yes the button is not huge, and you want to take care putting it in the pack that it won't get turned on in the bag. Plenty of light for the typical benightment climbing and walk off; I'm impressed. Plus, it is very small.

I actually commented to my partner last weekend that Petzl have finally got it right.
 Dark-Cloud 25 Jan 2016
In reply to m0unt41n:
Amen brother !!

I have just got the latest Tikka XP and whilst its a great little light and lasted well into an early morning ski tour the other week the functions and flashes are stupid, having to cycle through Low, Med, High, Boost, Flash is hard work whist on your head and with ski gloves on, although I do like the red light for using the camera at night so not all bad !
Post edited at 13:58
 ablackett 25 Jan 2016
In reply to drysori:

> The Black Diamond lamp won't give you 200 lumens for 50 hours. It will burn for 50 hours if you leave it on the highest setting, but that will drop off from 200 lumens after the first half an hour I would guess, and by the end of the 50 hours it will be just enough to read a book. BD used to print a graph on the side of the packaging to illustrate this.

Thanks, Petzl make the same claim for some of theirs, I was assuming it was a misprint.


Ysgo 26 Jan 2016
In reply to m0unt41n:

The trouble is that they are making the torches for so many different users that they need multiple options to accommodate to the masses. A runner wants a lot of light, but if you're reading a map you don't want it to blind you with the reflection. A walker may not need as much light, but might want it to be bright all night, so better battery life is key. A dog walker may want the battery to survive for 2 weeks of daily use before needing a change/charge of the batteries. A fisher or hunter doesn't want to scare the fish/animals with a white light. Someone leaving it in their car for emergency use wants the batteries to work if it's sat stationary for 2 years.

They produce a lot of different lights for different situations, but each one will be aimed towards several different groups hence the different settings.

Easiest thing is to get a Petzl Tikka RXP with a reactive light. If you really want, you can plug it into your computer, and make sure there's only one reactive setting. Turn it on, and forget about it. Although I admit the button could be bigger
 StuDoig 26 Jan 2016
In reply to Ysgo:

the Tikka RXP is fast becoming my go to torch to be fair, particularly for running and walking. Was skiing in the dark on Saturday with it as well and was really pleased with how well it work as twilight turned to full darkness. Though the tiny button is an utterly crap feature! Still, once you know where it is - it works.

I'd still love to see the big dial control and mechanical lockout from the Pixa added to the Myo or the Tikka!

Cheers,

Stu
m0unt41n 26 Jan 2016
In reply to Ysgo:

But most people want to be able to use it with gloves, whether thin or thick, and other than the Petzl Professional range the switches on all their other torches or tiny and unusable. I have a Petzl Tikka RXP and the 2 switches are stupidly small. The idea that you switch it on and it then reacts to what is needed is great, unfortunately the fool who designed it then made it have 3 modes with different options and two switches.

Put simply, a concept alien to the designers, users generally just want 2 or 3 levels and off. The total amount of light depends on the use so you get different head torches, not one torches that does 10 different levels and costs a fortune because a few users need searchlight mode.

The Petzl Professional range are brilliant, simple knob to switch which is easy to use in gloves. Clever charging cradle, robust. Problem is that it is old technology so heavy, not very bright and very expensive. The RXP and others are hopeless.

Mr Petzl (and Black Diamond and Co) please slowly read the following, sorry if it comes as a shock to you:
Torches are used in the dark.
It is dark at night.
It is also usually cold at night.
Days are shorter in winter so head torches are used more often in winter.
It is cold in winter.
People wear gloves when it is cold.
So most of the time people wear gloves when using head torches outside.
No one wants to have to take off their gloves just because the head torch switch is badly designed.

 Simon Caldwell 26 Jan 2016
In reply to m0unt41n:

The Petzl Nao is easy to use with gloves on, and is also lockable. It main downside for me is that it's big and heavy - but if it weren't then it would be harder to use with gloves on!
m0unt41n 26 Jan 2016
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Yes, that's the design of the switch. No reason why it could not be used on other head torches which do not need the power or separate batteries.


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