UKH

Why would you go on a hill in winter conditions, on your own, if you thought it wasn't safe for you to be on a hill on your own in winter conditions?!
We were more than half way up the hill when this guy told us he'd like join us to the top of the hill, then proceeded to walk so unbelieveably slowly that we got quite cold. He also didn't trust our navigation as it wasn't what his GPS said (we went up the ridge, his GPS was directing him off the side of the ridge :-s not sure if he just didn't know how to use it or it wasn't very accurate). Every time we stopped to wait for him ( we felt obliged as we now had no visibility) he kept telling us how many fractions of a mile his GPS told him it was to the top. We didn't care how far it was to the top!! It has convinced me even more that I don't like GPS, and I might avoid randomers on the hill in future!

In reply to girlymonkey: Would have just left him. He has his GPS which he obviously has absolute faith in so he'd be fine wouldn't he?? Sounds like a complete p**t. If it was so good why did he ask to join you?
I once had a chap ask me where I was headed - we were in cloud at time. Told him and then he followed me about 100 yds back all the way down until we came out of the cloud - then had the cheek to complain I had brought him down in the wrong place. Words beginning with F and O followed!

In reply to girlymonkey:
Just put up with him until you can send him on his way. Flip side is you can also meet folk you click with as friends.

In reply to girlymonkey: Once met an Italian guy who was lost somewhere on the N side of the East face of the Matterhorn. Looked like Mr Bean, didn't have a headtorch, only spoke Italian (no French, English or Dutch). We felt obliged to light his descent.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

That really is bad ;0)

In reply to mypyrex: Almost as bad as only speaking English and seemingly just as common.

In reply to girlymonkey: You now hate GPS devices because one numpty ruined your walk?

I don't get it?

In reply to lpretro1:

I'm trying to figure out what a p**t is...

To the OP, its a hard call when someone isn't safe but is also a feckless idiot. I suppose you have to think, if you had left him and he'd fallen off a cliff and died, how would you have felt? Certainly shouldn't stop you from offering a few choice words though!

It probably shouldn't put you off a GPS though. I'm thinking about getting one for those lovely whiteouts on featureless hills, but as an in-the-pack last resort. The good ones seem reliable.

In reply to Bob_the_Builder:

I was trying to suss that one out too. I think it's either pfft (the sound of the fart), or prat.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

No, I don't like GPS, never have. But, his insistance on it being right when it wasn't and his constant updates on how many fractions of a mile it was to the top bugged me a lot. It just turned me off them even more.
I'm over it now though, still enjoyed the walk despite him, just needed to vent a bit when I got back!!

In reply to girlymonkey: You cant blame the GPS for the owner being a prat. Its akin to the people who drive in to the sea and say the satnav told them to. GPS is a great navigational aid but it is just an aid.

In reply to girlymonkey:

I hate this 'I don't like GPS attitude'

A GPS is a tool and a very useful one at that. It's the users you don't like not the device.

In reply to geordiepie:

Well, this. I've met similar map and compass bores that have been equally incorrect in their self location.

You ultimately take responsibility for your own actions. GPS, map and compass, goat entrails are all just tools to help you, but ultimately it's your call which way you go. I've gone from using a gps as back up to it being my preferred navigation tool.

In reply to geordiepie:

No, it's the device that I don't like, but yes, that user did wind me up a lot. (I'm a complete ludite and don't like anything that relies on batteries.) I avoid technology as much as possible. I have to have email contact and mobile phone as I'm self employed, but that is the limit of my technology. Even at that my computer can only do the basics, and my phone isn't any of this touch screen nonsense, it can only really do calls and texts. I don't even have a TV, or DVD. So it is the device that I don't like.

In reply to girlymonkey:

Sounds like a similar experience we had. We were going up Ben Nevis a few years back on a horrible winter day. We were aiming for CMD arête but due to shit visibility, stupidly high winds and general vile weather, dived to the tourist track. Except there pretty much was no track, it was completely obligated by a few Ft of snow. Anyway, most people we passed were those turning back due to conditions. We carried on, and then realised someone was following us. We stopped to "look at the map" to let him catch up, and realised he was in thin summer trousers and trainers, and was using the footsteps from our trail breaking to make progress. We chatted and he said he had tried to go up the previous day, but had to turn back since he got lost and hadnt got a map or compass. He still had neither, and was now shivering. We didn't advise him, but after about another half hour, he did turn back of his own accord. Yes, you will always get numpties on a popular hill, but you'd think that plenty f well equipped and clothed people turning back would give him a hint.

In reply to girlymonkey:

Clearly some people start with good intentions then get into a mess. I would imagine there are many that take the sensible option and come back down safely - we just don't talk about them because its a non story.

GPS is just one tool we have available to us. My preference is to understand how to use everything available and choose whatever is appropriate at the time. Being dismissive of someone's choice is unhelpful.

In reply to girlymonkey: what i hate about a GPS is that a lot of people use them and have no idea how to use a map and compass and rely totaly on the GPS. did your guy have a map and compass? bet not. just comfort yourself with the fact that because of you he didnt need to be rescued! i remember once going along striding edge and a guy telling me catstye cam was helvellyn as that was the way his GPS was pointing

In reply to lpretro1:

Gosh - it is good that you look out for others. I presume you would have said all that to his relatives if he had been found dead on the hillside after you left him for dust?

In reply to EeeByGum:

(Puts on sombrero and stick on Viva Zapata moustache to quote from The MAgnificent Seven - probably - in phoney Mexican accent) "The good theeng about stoopid people. They die young"

In reply to EeeByGum:

stupid has a price.

i wouldn't blame the OP at all, its not the OP's problem that some people are suicidally f*ck-witted.

the bloke didn't for help, infact he appears to have gone out of his way to reject help, so i think the OP would have no more blame for the half-wits death than you would have if the driver of the car next to you on the M6 decided to try driving with his eyes closed and piled into a bridge pillar at 90 mph.

dumb people do dumb things. meh.

In reply to lpretro1: Had a similar experience a couple of years ago on top of Bowfell. The top was shrouded in mist and sitting by the summit was a fella on his own eating his sandwiches. I was looking at my map and he suddenly said something very similar to " Does your map show you which way Esk Pike is ?". I asked him if he had a map/compass/Gps and he told me he hadn't. I then lost interest in him - my mate chatted to him and he apparently stated that he knew the area (PRICK).
As we set off he followed a distance behind, and when we stopped he did. This went on until he got over Esk Pike and we started our decent towards the main path. As soon as we came out of the mist (and into glorious sunny weather) he was off like a long dog !
What pissed me off was that he didn't fess up or ask for help - and that he was up there on his own with no means of navigation at all - it's idiots like him that place a burden on the good peeps who have to rescue them ! Rant over.

You've got to help people even if they are muppets. I gave directions to a couple in "walking trainers"* in the Lakes above Jake's Rake this winter when they discovered that google maps didn't work on their ipad once they left the hotel.

* Sort of things you see advertised in the back of Sunday papers

In reply to duchessofmalfi:

no, you don't 'have' to help people, even if they are muppets.

you may choose to, but you've no obligation to.

i have helped people - and been helped - in the past: but the defining charactoristic of all of these experiences was that either the recipient of aid asked for help, or, when asked by the prospective giver 'are you ok?', they said 'no, i'm in trouble'.

fcuknuggets who know they are in trouble, but who refuse to admit it, are a fundamental part of evolution.

In reply to Rampikino:


Well said.

However, everyone's allowed an occasional brainfart: I met a very well kitted out couple on the Aran ridge last weekend (big packs, serious boots, planning to camp out) who'd forgotten that North isn't at the top of the map if you've turned it upside down...

My own cockup yesterday involved carefully navigating to a ring contour on mostly featureless moorland by pacing/bearings, then putting the compass away and marching directly up the WRONG hill. The lack of two 20ft cairns when I got there was bit of a giveaway.

In reply to ballsac:
>>

I stumbled across a large group on Dartmoor one night a few years back. I was doing some night nav practice with my son and it was about 4hrs after dark, Feb, pouring with rain thick mist etc etc.

There was about 8 of them and they only had 2 head torches between them. I asked if they were OK (as they seriously didnt look OK), the chap at the front with the headtorch said they were fine and refused our offers of guidance...spare headtorches etc so we walked on slowly. After 5 mins I could see the headtorch bobing towards us as the guy was chasing us with the obvious question..."excuse me...but where are we?""

Long story short but once again they insisted they didnt need our help after locating them, but ignoring this we made sure we kept their lights in our sight all the way off the moor.

Back in civilisation there were 2 police cars and 3 MRT landrovers parked on the roadside...and we could guess who they were looking for and could tell them exactly where they were!! Blokes just wont ask for help....

In reply to girlymonkey:

GPS is fine but it needs to be set up correctly (not much use if you're using Namibian chart datum) and used as a back up to the mark 1 eyeball and map.

What a map does give, that even the most advanced colour GPS does not, is a feeling for the terrain around you. It is tricky to get your sense of place from GPS, whereas after practice you can interprete the contour lines on a map almost as a 3d model in your mind.

That said, maps get wet and blow away......

In reply to John Rushby:

The other issue, which I admit to doing, is making what I can see fit the bit of the map I think I'm in...