This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
"A small rucksack, a well planned itinerary and some good technique gets you into some unbeatable situations and lets you cover a lot of ground," says Paul Lewis. "Scrambling is a brilliant way to explore the mountains and get off the beaten track. But what you take and what you leave behind makes all the difference..."Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3867
In reply to UKC Gear:
Jesus Christ! You don't half pick some expensive gear to go scrambling! That is insane.
Jesus Christ! You don't half pick some expensive gear to go scrambling! That is insane.
In reply to Monk: Never mind the price, look at the quality...
In reply to Monk:
I was thinking something similar.
Scrambling kit:
20L Rucksack
Picnic rug
Lunch
Map (Optional, taking one for the wrong area adds entertainment)
Jacket
Hip Flask
Boots - Whatever you happen to have to hand, although I'm reliably informed that patent leather shoes don't last too well.
30m of rope and a screwgate if you are taking out a nervous person.
I was thinking something similar.
Scrambling kit:
20L Rucksack
Picnic rug
Lunch
Map (Optional, taking one for the wrong area adds entertainment)
Jacket
Hip Flask
Boots - Whatever you happen to have to hand, although I'm reliably informed that patent leather shoes don't last too well.
30m of rope and a screwgate if you are taking out a nervous person.
In reply to UKC Gear:
Is scrambling a bit like rambling? If so, don't you need a tin cup to go on the back of your rucksac beside your ice axe?
Is scrambling a bit like rambling? If so, don't you need a tin cup to go on the back of your rucksac beside your ice axe?
In reply to UKC Gear: Pity that the article contains little on technique or planning and lots of advertising of expensive gear.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Like...
> (In reply to Monk)
>
> Map (Optional, taking one for the wrong area adds entertainment)
>
> Map (Optional, taking one for the wrong area adds entertainment)
Like...
In reply to MJH:
The strangest thing about the article is that it starts out by telling us what a simple activity it is!
To be fair, the main bulk of the article is relatively sane, but the juxtaposition of the reviews of high-end gear make it appear ludicrous.
> (In reply to UKC Gear) Pity that the article contains little on technique or planning and lots of advertising of expensive gear.
The strangest thing about the article is that it starts out by telling us what a simple activity it is!
To be fair, the main bulk of the article is relatively sane, but the juxtaposition of the reviews of high-end gear make it appear ludicrous.
In reply to UKC Gear: Nothing about cams
In reply to andic:
Why would you take cams scrambling? I was already thinking that the recommended rack was quite beefy!
> (In reply to UKC Gear) Nothing about cams
Why would you take cams scrambling? I was already thinking that the recommended rack was quite beefy!
In reply to UKC Gear: I take a smaller bag than that on 3-day scrambling trips!
In reply to Monk: The recommended rack is really beefy. I'm sure I used to take a short rope and a couple of slings and nuts when I went scrambling lots in the 1990s (this was before I did any rock climbing too).
In reply to UKC Gear:
This is ridiculous, the writer states "I try to minimise hardware" then lists more gear than used on an average VS and suggest techniques that are more in keeping with a PD/AD than an easy scramble.
I'm getting sick of these articles targeted at beginners which make British mountain's out to be unassailable unless armed to the teeth with a grands worth of gear, yet don't actually detail anything of practical advice. In truth if you were to wear and carry all this stuff on Bristly ridge recently, you'd have keeled over from heat exhaustion.
This is ridiculous, the writer states "I try to minimise hardware" then lists more gear than used on an average VS and suggest techniques that are more in keeping with a PD/AD than an easy scramble.
I'm getting sick of these articles targeted at beginners which make British mountain's out to be unassailable unless armed to the teeth with a grands worth of gear, yet don't actually detail anything of practical advice. In truth if you were to wear and carry all this stuff on Bristly ridge recently, you'd have keeled over from heat exhaustion.
In reply to UKC Gear:
seems a bit excessive to me. i feel fully covered with the following:
22 litre daysack (sloping bottom to avoid stranding on downclimbs)
30m 8mm rope for retreating
240 sling for harness
hms carabiner for italian hitch
240 sling/120 sling/screwgate carabiner for lowering off
seems a bit excessive to me. i feel fully covered with the following:
22 litre daysack (sloping bottom to avoid stranding on downclimbs)
30m 8mm rope for retreating
240 sling for harness
hms carabiner for italian hitch
240 sling/120 sling/screwgate carabiner for lowering off
In reply to UKC Gear:
This is a subtle parody right?
The introduction starts with the author being inspired by a "Live Simply" T-shirt (Patagonia...naturally) and concludes "That's why I love scrambling so much. A small rucksack, a well planned itinerary and some good technique"
It then proceeds to recommend a pile of gear including, amongst other unnecessarily over-specified items, an Arc'teryx 320 harness costing £120 and a pair of walking poles costing £150!
Live simply? Simply rampant consumerism.
This is a subtle parody right?
The introduction starts with the author being inspired by a "Live Simply" T-shirt (Patagonia...naturally) and concludes "That's why I love scrambling so much. A small rucksack, a well planned itinerary and some good technique"
It then proceeds to recommend a pile of gear including, amongst other unnecessarily over-specified items, an Arc'teryx 320 harness costing £120 and a pair of walking poles costing £150!
Live simply? Simply rampant consumerism.
In reply to UKC Gear:
Happily I switched off when I read 'one of those Patag t-shirts...' Written as though I should know about them and if i don't I'm missing out. Also happy about missing out on that too. Merrily scrolled down to the £150 snappable poles.
In my opinion a rotten article, or perhaps more accurately an improperly titled article. As others have pointed out a regrettable by-product of such poor editorial input makes scrambling appear inaccessible to all but the rich.
Happily I switched off when I read 'one of those Patag t-shirts...' Written as though I should know about them and if i don't I'm missing out. Also happy about missing out on that too. Merrily scrolled down to the £150 snappable poles.
In my opinion a rotten article, or perhaps more accurately an improperly titled article. As others have pointed out a regrettable by-product of such poor editorial input makes scrambling appear inaccessible to all but the rich.
Thanks Very much for reporting your very own rack of gear.
Il go out and buy it straight away.
If UKC Decide they want the kit i use for any situation, drop me an email.
Cheers
Il go out and buy it straight away.
If UKC Decide they want the kit i use for any situation, drop me an email.
Cheers
In reply to UKC Gear:
Where on earth did you buy the R320a for 85 quid? A 120 quid harness is a bit overkill for just scrambling...
By the way, the Deuter Guide is a brilliant climbing backpack... but its 1600 grams, not really lightweight. Where is the Osprey Talon 33 from the list?
Where on earth did you buy the R320a for 85 quid? A 120 quid harness is a bit overkill for just scrambling...
By the way, the Deuter Guide is a brilliant climbing backpack... but its 1600 grams, not really lightweight. Where is the Osprey Talon 33 from the list?
In reply to DaveHK:
Scrabling not scrambling perhaps?
Scrabling not scrambling perhaps?
In reply to UKC Gear:
Setting aside that it reads like an advertising feature, I presume this is more of a ukhillwalking.com article than a ukclimbing.com one?
It's still a bit odd, though. My scrambling kit, and that of most people I've scrambled with, is more or less exactly the same as my hillwalking kit - sometimes with the addition of a helmet. If the approach and descent aren't too boggy I may leave my hillwalking boots at home and use trainers instead.
If I'm going with someone nervous or someone I'm nervous about I'll throw in a rope and harness for them and maybe a couple of slings, sure, but that's the exception rather than the rule.
It's generally better just to pick a scramble that's suitable for the people going than to pick one that will have to be treated as a climb.
Setting aside that it reads like an advertising feature, I presume this is more of a ukhillwalking.com article than a ukclimbing.com one?
It's still a bit odd, though. My scrambling kit, and that of most people I've scrambled with, is more or less exactly the same as my hillwalking kit - sometimes with the addition of a helmet. If the approach and descent aren't too boggy I may leave my hillwalking boots at home and use trainers instead.
If I'm going with someone nervous or someone I'm nervous about I'll throw in a rope and harness for them and maybe a couple of slings, sure, but that's the exception rather than the rule.
It's generally better just to pick a scramble that's suitable for the people going than to pick one that will have to be treated as a climb.
In reply to skog:
It was my birthday recently and a friend sent me one of those Patagonia 'Live Simply' T-shirts. It's classic Patagonia: nice cotton, simple picture, brief but powerful message and a good colour. It got me thinking though, as I sat dropping crumbs from my birthday carrot cake down it, how difficult it actually is to live up to that message nowadays.
A brief but powerful message? You need a t shirt slogan to kick your arse into gear and live your life better? Give me a break!
It was my birthday recently and a friend sent me one of those Patagonia 'Live Simply' T-shirts. It's classic Patagonia: nice cotton, simple picture, brief but powerful message and a good colour. It got me thinking though, as I sat dropping crumbs from my birthday carrot cake down it, how difficult it actually is to live up to that message nowadays.
A brief but powerful message? You need a t shirt slogan to kick your arse into gear and live your life better? Give me a break!
In reply to skog:
On further reflection, I probably deserve a public flogging for using the phrase 'more or less exactly'.
On further reflection, I probably deserve a public flogging for using the phrase 'more or less exactly'.
In reply to Denni:
You need a t shirt slogan to kick your arse into gear and live your life better?
Well, some people do... (stuffs another pie into face and waits for t-shirt with brief, powerful message)
You need a t shirt slogan to kick your arse into gear and live your life better?
Well, some people do... (stuffs another pie into face and waits for t-shirt with brief, powerful message)
In reply to skog: <A gentle swish of a cat o' nine tails in the air> ...
In reply to Monk:
I wouldn't
> (In reply to andic)
> [...]
>
> Why would you take cams scrambling? I was already thinking that the recommended rack was quite beefy!
> [...]
>
> Why would you take cams scrambling? I was already thinking that the recommended rack was quite beefy!
I wouldn't
In reply to UKC Gear:
I don't usually get bothered about articles here, but this one really is a bit rubbish. I'm afraid the alarm bells started ringing with the photo of the boots, and on reading further, the phrase "I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better specialised scrambling boot."
A specialised scrambling boot? For £180 quid? I must be doing something wrong. I always seem to have managed fine with whatever hillwalking footwear I have on at the time - either Scarpa SLs or approach shoes of some kind of another.
And as for the rack...
I don't usually get bothered about articles here, but this one really is a bit rubbish. I'm afraid the alarm bells started ringing with the photo of the boots, and on reading further, the phrase "I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better specialised scrambling boot."
A specialised scrambling boot? For £180 quid? I must be doing something wrong. I always seem to have managed fine with whatever hillwalking footwear I have on at the time - either Scarpa SLs or approach shoes of some kind of another.
And as for the rack...
In reply to tony: Agreed they are massive overkill but they are beautiful boots nonetheless
In reply to UKC Gear:
I just wear my normal hill-going gear and sac. Walking poles get taken fully to pieces so they don't snag too easily but, other than that, what could you need? Maybe a long sling or length of tat to secore one tricky move or lower myself down a few feet. If anything looks harder than that, avoid it. Route finding is one of the skills of big scrambles, not bludgeoning your way up a directissima with special gear.
If you have a nervous person with me, I might put in a short (30 / 40 foot) rope, couple of long slings, crab.
If you need more than that, it is climbing, not scrambling.
I just wear my normal hill-going gear and sac. Walking poles get taken fully to pieces so they don't snag too easily but, other than that, what could you need? Maybe a long sling or length of tat to secore one tricky move or lower myself down a few feet. If anything looks harder than that, avoid it. Route finding is one of the skills of big scrambles, not bludgeoning your way up a directissima with special gear.
If you have a nervous person with me, I might put in a short (30 / 40 foot) rope, couple of long slings, crab.
If you need more than that, it is climbing, not scrambling.
In reply to tony: Did you read the preceding paragraphs? specifically i was thinking of this bit:
"A friend of mine spends all his time in the mountains wandering about in Inov8 trail shoes and it works for him. I'm more in the lightweight boots with supportive ankle support and reasonable waterproofness camp. Any walking boots with a grippy sole, reasonable sole stiffness and edging capability, decent ankle support and comfortable fit will do the job."
Hardly compelling all and sundry to go and blow £180 on a new pair of boots.
"A friend of mine spends all his time in the mountains wandering about in Inov8 trail shoes and it works for him. I'm more in the lightweight boots with supportive ankle support and reasonable waterproofness camp. Any walking boots with a grippy sole, reasonable sole stiffness and edging capability, decent ankle support and comfortable fit will do the job."
Hardly compelling all and sundry to go and blow £180 on a new pair of boots.
In reply to UKC Gear:
Thanks to everyone that’s taken the time to comment on my article. I’ve written quite a few articles and reviews and this is the first one that’s had such a negative response. I’ll certainly take the comments on board. The last time I received a few negative responses was to another article on scrambling and I guess it’s an area of mountain sport that people take an individual approach too.
The idea of the article was to outline the kind of kit that would be suitable for higher end scrambles and combine this with some mini reviews of kit that is either specifically tailored to that activity or particularly suitable. Some of the mini reviews featured products that were quite new to the market too.
Like some readers have commented you can scramble in anything and I tried to make that clear in the various references to footwear and the fact that some scramblers take little or no hardwear. I also started scrambling with my standard hillwalking kit and a few bits of climbing gear and I certainly didn’t want it to come across that anyone needed to spend a lot on top of the range kit. I realise that some readers have commented that this is the message they get - that is down to my failings as a writer and I apologise for that.
The hardware listed was certainly aimed at higher grade scrambles and again maybe this wasn’t clear. A user has mentioned Bristly Ridge but my focus was certainly more along the lines of Chasm Face, Cneifion Arete or South Buttress. It was also focussed on less experienced scramblers who may want to pitch the crux of Cneifion or Chasm. They are also more likely to be participants that would want a bit more flexibility in their hardware selection or to put in the occasional runner between belays on some sections. For these situations the hardware listed would be the sort of kit I’d teach new scramblers to use. As they gained experience they could then be more selective about their choices. An example of the difference in approach was illustrated on Tuesday when I was climbing on Milestone Buttress. As we topped out on Direct Route a scrambler appeared having just completed Milestone Buttress Approach (MBA). He’d happily soloed this grade 3 and then headed up to Milestone Continuation. By the time we’d descended another team were on the traverse of MBA. They had set up a belay by the Pulpit and were pitching across. They had different, but equally valid approaches and I’m sorry again if the focus group for the article wasn’t clear.
Some of the equipment I tested is certainly specialised or top of the range. For example, the Arcteryx harness has prompted some comments. When I was asked to write the article I was asked to suggest some equipment that would be suitable for review and a few other items for inclusion were suggested to me. As I mentioned in the piece I have used a much simpler harness for many years and the Arcteryx is certainly specialised. I’d hoped the fact that this was a general short review of this gear was clear rather than suggesting it would be primarily suited to scrambling. It obviously wasn’t and I take this on board.
I am sorry if the article has annoyed some people. I love scrambling and I love introducing others to it. I would hate to think that I’ve put anyone off.
Thanks to everyone that’s taken the time to comment on my article. I’ve written quite a few articles and reviews and this is the first one that’s had such a negative response. I’ll certainly take the comments on board. The last time I received a few negative responses was to another article on scrambling and I guess it’s an area of mountain sport that people take an individual approach too.
The idea of the article was to outline the kind of kit that would be suitable for higher end scrambles and combine this with some mini reviews of kit that is either specifically tailored to that activity or particularly suitable. Some of the mini reviews featured products that were quite new to the market too.
Like some readers have commented you can scramble in anything and I tried to make that clear in the various references to footwear and the fact that some scramblers take little or no hardwear. I also started scrambling with my standard hillwalking kit and a few bits of climbing gear and I certainly didn’t want it to come across that anyone needed to spend a lot on top of the range kit. I realise that some readers have commented that this is the message they get - that is down to my failings as a writer and I apologise for that.
The hardware listed was certainly aimed at higher grade scrambles and again maybe this wasn’t clear. A user has mentioned Bristly Ridge but my focus was certainly more along the lines of Chasm Face, Cneifion Arete or South Buttress. It was also focussed on less experienced scramblers who may want to pitch the crux of Cneifion or Chasm. They are also more likely to be participants that would want a bit more flexibility in their hardware selection or to put in the occasional runner between belays on some sections. For these situations the hardware listed would be the sort of kit I’d teach new scramblers to use. As they gained experience they could then be more selective about their choices. An example of the difference in approach was illustrated on Tuesday when I was climbing on Milestone Buttress. As we topped out on Direct Route a scrambler appeared having just completed Milestone Buttress Approach (MBA). He’d happily soloed this grade 3 and then headed up to Milestone Continuation. By the time we’d descended another team were on the traverse of MBA. They had set up a belay by the Pulpit and were pitching across. They had different, but equally valid approaches and I’m sorry again if the focus group for the article wasn’t clear.
Some of the equipment I tested is certainly specialised or top of the range. For example, the Arcteryx harness has prompted some comments. When I was asked to write the article I was asked to suggest some equipment that would be suitable for review and a few other items for inclusion were suggested to me. As I mentioned in the piece I have used a much simpler harness for many years and the Arcteryx is certainly specialised. I’d hoped the fact that this was a general short review of this gear was clear rather than suggesting it would be primarily suited to scrambling. It obviously wasn’t and I take this on board.
I am sorry if the article has annoyed some people. I love scrambling and I love introducing others to it. I would hate to think that I’ve put anyone off.
In reply to peakpaul:
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Maybe there is scope for a more 'fast and light' version of the article? Maybe a few hints and tips on making the best of a minimalist kit (how to tie in without a harness etc.)
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Maybe there is scope for a more 'fast and light' version of the article? Maybe a few hints and tips on making the best of a minimalist kit (how to tie in without a harness etc.)
In reply to peakpaul:
Thanks for commenting. I was the first to comment as I was rather surprised by the article, but I wouldn't have been quite as vitriolic as some of the subsequent posters. As I said in the middle of the thread somewhere, the actual article is good (and I quite liked your 'T-shirt slogan' intro). My problem is really with the juxtaposition of the gear reviews and the article - the article basically says to use the gear you would alwaays use, and that scrambling is a simple pleasure, but the gear reviews are for top-end kit that I would consider too expensive even for multi-pitch climbs in the alps, let alone scrambling in the UK. I think that an element of this arises from the fact that you are a professional so can justify the expenditure (and get the gear cheap in the first place). I would be very happy to use any of this gear but the price is just too high (I have trialled the Arcteryx harness, for example, and it is extremely comfortable, just massively over-specced for scrambling where I would rarely take a harness and if I did it would be an old DMM Alpine).
Objectively, I would say that the article was good and the reviews were good, but the juxtaposition of the two was not so good. Don't let the flaming put you off trying again though.
Thanks for commenting. I was the first to comment as I was rather surprised by the article, but I wouldn't have been quite as vitriolic as some of the subsequent posters. As I said in the middle of the thread somewhere, the actual article is good (and I quite liked your 'T-shirt slogan' intro). My problem is really with the juxtaposition of the gear reviews and the article - the article basically says to use the gear you would alwaays use, and that scrambling is a simple pleasure, but the gear reviews are for top-end kit that I would consider too expensive even for multi-pitch climbs in the alps, let alone scrambling in the UK. I think that an element of this arises from the fact that you are a professional so can justify the expenditure (and get the gear cheap in the first place). I would be very happy to use any of this gear but the price is just too high (I have trialled the Arcteryx harness, for example, and it is extremely comfortable, just massively over-specced for scrambling where I would rarely take a harness and if I did it would be an old DMM Alpine).
Objectively, I would say that the article was good and the reviews were good, but the juxtaposition of the two was not so good. Don't let the flaming put you off trying again though.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Thanks for the reply. A fast and light version is certainly an idea I'll look into.
Thanks for the reply. A fast and light version is certainly an idea I'll look into.
In reply to Monk:
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your comments. A lot of the gear mentioned is certainly top end in terms of quality and cost. We have a lot of very technical kit available nowadays and reviews often end up focussing on the latest products.
They do need to be reviewed as people buy them - but the comments made me worried that people would think this was a recommended kit list rather than what it was - a look at what I have been using recently and what scramblers might find appropriate...........but certainly not the only options.
My Arcteryx harness only goes out on dry days and on routes where I know it isn't going to be scraped up some lichen covered slime fest on the East Face of Tryfan! On days like that I use my DMM Alpine!
Cheers,
Paul
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your comments. A lot of the gear mentioned is certainly top end in terms of quality and cost. We have a lot of very technical kit available nowadays and reviews often end up focussing on the latest products.
They do need to be reviewed as people buy them - but the comments made me worried that people would think this was a recommended kit list rather than what it was - a look at what I have been using recently and what scramblers might find appropriate...........but certainly not the only options.
My Arcteryx harness only goes out on dry days and on routes where I know it isn't going to be scraped up some lichen covered slime fest on the East Face of Tryfan! On days like that I use my DMM Alpine!
Cheers,
Paul
In reply to peakpaul:
Hi, I can see where Monk is coming from in that it does look a little like an exercise in selling the most expensive gear possible to those with "all the gear but no idea", but to be fair, I think you've chosen good (if pricey) gear and gear which is relevant to scrambling. I too would take my La Sporetiova Evos and a lightweight harness if I had one and I don't think your suggested rack is *that* big - after all you suggest taking superlights which are an excellent suggestion.
It's UKC being UKC innit.
Some good stuff in your article and I do think it's clearly aimed at the harder end of the scrambling spectrum.
Hi, I can see where Monk is coming from in that it does look a little like an exercise in selling the most expensive gear possible to those with "all the gear but no idea", but to be fair, I think you've chosen good (if pricey) gear and gear which is relevant to scrambling. I too would take my La Sporetiova Evos and a lightweight harness if I had one and I don't think your suggested rack is *that* big - after all you suggest taking superlights which are an excellent suggestion.
It's UKC being UKC innit.
Some good stuff in your article and I do think it's clearly aimed at the harder end of the scrambling spectrum.
In reply to UKC Gear: I think some people who have commented think that this article has somehow gotten confused as to what it is. it's fairly obvious that it's a review of the gear and not an instructional article on what to take scrambling. While I agree that some of the gear highlighted is a little OTT for the subject, if someone doesn't highlight these items I wouldn't have known that Arcteryx have a new harness that I want!
In reply to peakpaul:
I wouldn't worry about it too much Paul, although the response has been surprisingly negative, much of this has to do with the history of UKC articles rather than yours in particular.
I don't think there is much (any) criticism here that you could take away and do anything with, so keep calm and carry on.
> (In reply to UKC Gear)
>
> I am sorry if the article has annoyed some people.
>
> I am sorry if the article has annoyed some people.
I wouldn't worry about it too much Paul, although the response has been surprisingly negative, much of this has to do with the history of UKC articles rather than yours in particular.
I don't think there is much (any) criticism here that you could take away and do anything with, so keep calm and carry on.
In reply to peakpaul: did you get to keep the kit you reviewed....?
In reply to chiz: Don't know if that was Paul's own kit or not he was reviewing, but if a company sends something out to be reviewed you get to keep it, but on the other hand there is no payment for your copy or photos.
In reply to TobyA: That's what I expected. I just have visions of a big pile of shiny new kit in the middle of a room in UKC Towers, and a reviewer desperately trying to think of an angle can get him the nicest, most expensive kit.
In reply to chiz:
I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Mick and Sarah work in mysterious ways in deciding who reviews what. I think I'm the resident punter who gets sensible, comfy rock shoes to review because I'm not actually good enough to need anything flash!
I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Mick and Sarah work in mysterious ways in deciding who reviews what. I think I'm the resident punter who gets sensible, comfy rock shoes to review because I'm not actually good enough to need anything flash!
In reply to chiz:
Hi chiz,
For this article I reviewed some kit that was my own and some that was provided. From the kit provided some manufacturers asked for it to be returned but others didn't.
The kit I provided myself was agreed with UKC/UKH beforehand. It was kit I've been using that is very new on the market and I thought would fit the scrambling focus and be of interest to readers.
Hope that explains.
Regards,
Paul
Hi chiz,
For this article I reviewed some kit that was my own and some that was provided. From the kit provided some manufacturers asked for it to be returned but others didn't.
The kit I provided myself was agreed with UKC/UKH beforehand. It was kit I've been using that is very new on the market and I thought would fit the scrambling focus and be of interest to readers.
Hope that explains.
Regards,
Paul
In reply to TobyA:
You can never have too many sensible, comfy rock shoes though can you Toby!
You can never have too many sensible, comfy rock shoes though can you Toby!
In reply to peakpaul: It's more that taking my reviewing very seriously (of course!) I feel I have to find their limits. This normally involves lobbing off some route when finding that "Agggghhhhh!!!!! ...So, no, actually they aren't tight enough to let me stand on that hold."
More seriously to Chiz's question, UKC know what type of outdoor activities and interests and reviewers do and have, so divide the reviews up accordingly. I live in country with no real scrambling, so I'd be a very bad person to write a scrambling equipment article. But I do live somewhere where it regularly gets to below the ratings of most sleeping bags so can test how warm they are without needing an industrial freezer!
More seriously to Chiz's question, UKC know what type of outdoor activities and interests and reviewers do and have, so divide the reviews up accordingly. I live in country with no real scrambling, so I'd be a very bad person to write a scrambling equipment article. But I do live somewhere where it regularly gets to below the ratings of most sleeping bags so can test how warm they are without needing an industrial freezer!
In reply to peakpaul:
Well, I enjoyed reading your article Paul, and thought it contained some good advice on scrambling-specific kit for anyone who was planning a significant amount of harder scrambling (e.g. a trip to the Cuillins...).
I can't believe that you got such a flaming!
But I guess I'm speaking as someone who likes buying and using good kit for the job where my main hobbies are concerned (so own 4 pairs of boots, 6 rucksacks, etc, etc, etc...). Isn't it all part of the enjoyment of the sport?
I'm a big fan of La Sportiva Trango S Evos too. Bought some for a trip to Skye a couple of years ago, and have not looked back since. Really comfy, light, grippy and agile. Used them instead of approach shoes for the approach to climb on Tryfan last week too, as they are light enough to carry on a route - with the benefit that they provided good ankle support on the scree descent, great friction on the polished wet rock and feet still dry at the end of the day.
Well, I enjoyed reading your article Paul, and thought it contained some good advice on scrambling-specific kit for anyone who was planning a significant amount of harder scrambling (e.g. a trip to the Cuillins...).
I can't believe that you got such a flaming!
But I guess I'm speaking as someone who likes buying and using good kit for the job where my main hobbies are concerned (so own 4 pairs of boots, 6 rucksacks, etc, etc, etc...). Isn't it all part of the enjoyment of the sport?
I'm a big fan of La Sportiva Trango S Evos too. Bought some for a trip to Skye a couple of years ago, and have not looked back since. Really comfy, light, grippy and agile. Used them instead of approach shoes for the approach to climb on Tryfan last week too, as they are light enough to carry on a route - with the benefit that they provided good ankle support on the scree descent, great friction on the polished wet rock and feet still dry at the end of the day.
In reply to CathS:
Many thanks for your comment Cath. Glad you enjoyed it.
I have used the Evos on Skye many times and it amazes me that, for a pair of boots that are so light, they stand up to the rough rock remarkably well. A top quality product.
Thanks also to the other responses to the article. All valued
Many thanks for your comment Cath. Glad you enjoyed it.
I have used the Evos on Skye many times and it amazes me that, for a pair of boots that are so light, they stand up to the rough rock remarkably well. A top quality product.
Thanks also to the other responses to the article. All valued
In reply to peakpaul: Despite the comments above I found this an interesting article. We have done a few scrambles now and the review was useful in highlighting additional equipment we consider getting in the future. The reviewer obviously has a good grasp of what works and what doesn't. I have seen the Black Diamond poles and I did wonder how durable they would be in the long term. ??
In reply to peakpaul:
Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply. Glad you did get some free kit for your work! My comment was partially to raise a wider point about how potentially biased such reviews are: both this type of review, those that directly compare several different brands/types, and the 'advertising feature' with its 'associated forum thread'. Overall I am pretty happy with the reviews on here and read and refer to them, I just feel we need to be honest about what is provided, and what the terms of the review are.
Most of TobyA's reviews that I have read have compared several different products that do the same thing, or reviewed a new product in relation to existing, widely used, gear. This 'traditional' approach appears more transparent to the reader as its clear that the reviewer almost certainly got given the shiny new gear, and it is being compared against the alternatives in a qualitative way and the pros and cons are set out.
I do have an issue with reviews that can appear to have a default position of highlighting expensive options. There is no reason why expensive items can't be mentioned, and I've spent a lot of money on some bits of kit, but there is a trend to 'place' such products in seemingly incongruous places -like the top end harness in a scrambling review- if it were in for example a sport climbing harness review there would be no eyebrows raised. It seems more and more common that where only one product is highlighted, it will be the most expensive one. Your review does repeatedly mention cheaper alternatives, plus you rightly say that your normal hill clothes will be fine, but the 'featured kit' is all pricey, perhaps highlighting a 'budget option' alongside the 'executive option' would be a way forward?
Reading your article I thought it covered the main areas of gear for a novice scrambler thinking about taking on harder routes, and there were some good tips in there. I guess it seemed to be a gear guide for non-climbers who had just done a guided scrambling weekend and wanted to know what kit they might need to continue on ther own. Which is totally fine. I think that given that a lot of seasoned scramblers, myself included, got into scrambling specifically because you can leave all the gear behind and get a lot of mileage done with minimal faff there is an engrained culture of only needing 'whatever you happen to be wearing, plus a bit of tat, a crab and a sling'. Perhaps we scramblers are more snooty and elitist than we previously thought, perhaps even as elitist as 'rock climbers'??
BTW I do write book and equipment reviews (not climbing related unfortunately), and yes, part of the appeal is sometimes getting a freebie, however I'd like to feel that it never affects my analysis of the books!
Chiz
Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply. Glad you did get some free kit for your work! My comment was partially to raise a wider point about how potentially biased such reviews are: both this type of review, those that directly compare several different brands/types, and the 'advertising feature' with its 'associated forum thread'. Overall I am pretty happy with the reviews on here and read and refer to them, I just feel we need to be honest about what is provided, and what the terms of the review are.
Most of TobyA's reviews that I have read have compared several different products that do the same thing, or reviewed a new product in relation to existing, widely used, gear. This 'traditional' approach appears more transparent to the reader as its clear that the reviewer almost certainly got given the shiny new gear, and it is being compared against the alternatives in a qualitative way and the pros and cons are set out.
I do have an issue with reviews that can appear to have a default position of highlighting expensive options. There is no reason why expensive items can't be mentioned, and I've spent a lot of money on some bits of kit, but there is a trend to 'place' such products in seemingly incongruous places -like the top end harness in a scrambling review- if it were in for example a sport climbing harness review there would be no eyebrows raised. It seems more and more common that where only one product is highlighted, it will be the most expensive one. Your review does repeatedly mention cheaper alternatives, plus you rightly say that your normal hill clothes will be fine, but the 'featured kit' is all pricey, perhaps highlighting a 'budget option' alongside the 'executive option' would be a way forward?
Reading your article I thought it covered the main areas of gear for a novice scrambler thinking about taking on harder routes, and there were some good tips in there. I guess it seemed to be a gear guide for non-climbers who had just done a guided scrambling weekend and wanted to know what kit they might need to continue on ther own. Which is totally fine. I think that given that a lot of seasoned scramblers, myself included, got into scrambling specifically because you can leave all the gear behind and get a lot of mileage done with minimal faff there is an engrained culture of only needing 'whatever you happen to be wearing, plus a bit of tat, a crab and a sling'. Perhaps we scramblers are more snooty and elitist than we previously thought, perhaps even as elitist as 'rock climbers'??
BTW I do write book and equipment reviews (not climbing related unfortunately), and yes, part of the appeal is sometimes getting a freebie, however I'd like to feel that it never affects my analysis of the books!
Chiz
In reply to Neily:
Thanks for your message Neil. I'm glad the article was of interest to you.
The Black Diamond poles are fantastic - but they are also suited to specific usage. Ultralight carbon fibre construction is not going to be as durable as something like full alloy models. These are suited to users who can assess their suitability for the task in hand.
I would say they are best suited for users carrying reasonably light loads who have good balance and are good at placing them well on uneven terrain. If you get them repeatedly stuck between rocks, lose balance onto them a lot or put too much pressure on them in descent and they won't last too long. They are also classed by BD as 3 season and they certainly aren't the models to choose for crossing soft or deep snow. But, if all this is taken into account they are great and should last well.
If you decide to get some I'd love to hear how you get on with them.
Cheers
Thanks for your message Neil. I'm glad the article was of interest to you.
The Black Diamond poles are fantastic - but they are also suited to specific usage. Ultralight carbon fibre construction is not going to be as durable as something like full alloy models. These are suited to users who can assess their suitability for the task in hand.
I would say they are best suited for users carrying reasonably light loads who have good balance and are good at placing them well on uneven terrain. If you get them repeatedly stuck between rocks, lose balance onto them a lot or put too much pressure on them in descent and they won't last too long. They are also classed by BD as 3 season and they certainly aren't the models to choose for crossing soft or deep snow. But, if all this is taken into account they are great and should last well.
If you decide to get some I'd love to hear how you get on with them.
Cheers
In reply to chiz:
Thanks for taking the time to comment in detail.
I have been writing articles and reviews for a number of years and for a variety of publications and websites. I started writing for my own website and the early pieces were mainly information articles. I added a few other pieces about experiences or destinations I'd visited then, more recntly, started doing a number of reviews for a variety of products.
The main reason for continuing to write is that I enjoy it and enjoy sharing information with other outdoor people. It wouldn't be worth it for the financial benefits - I rarely get paid to write although I sometimes get some advertising space or a mention for my business. For equipment reviews I sometimes get some equipment.
Equipment reviews are probably, for me, the hardest things to write. I want to ensure the equipment is thoroughly tested, to try and be spot on with the technical details but also, most importantly, be accurate about how the equipment performs.
If I find a problem with a product I want to make sure I share that. I tested the items thoroughly in a variety of mountain areas and asked for an extension to the submission date to give a bit more time to use a few items in another location. I also used some of the 'crossover' items like the helmet and harness for both climbing and mountaineering as well as scrambling. Finally, when there was a couple of technical points I wanted to clarify I chatted to BD distributors First Ascent and La Sportiva distributer Lyon Equipment in some depth (thanks to both for their time). If I read a review I want to believe what I read and that's the model I use when writing mine.
This article seems to have crossed a boundary because it was a brief look at several items which, in some cases, crossed between scrambling and climbing. I am very happy that I have judged their pros and cons accurately and hope that I pointed out any potential problems (such as pointing out how some people feel the sole unit on the Evos wears fairly quickly). I fully appreciate, however, that some of the kit would be a very top end choice for scrambling. The Arcteryx harness was mentioned by several people and it is an expensive bit of kit - but that doesn't mean it in't suited for scramblers (I actually now see it as a great all rounder for mountaineering, climbing, winter....and scrambling).
It is also a difficult balance when discussing higher end equipment. For years my scrambling rope was a length of retired climbing rope that I'd cut down and trekking poles can be bought for £15 a pair. Your idea of suggesting cheaper alternatives is a good one. I was talking to someone today about writing an article on budget kit and hope to get around to doing that. But this other gear is out there and, as a few of the relpies have shown, some readers want to know about them and their relative pros and cons.
I've learnt a lot from the responses to this article and really appreciate the points you've made too.
Who do you write reviews for?
Thanks for taking the time to comment in detail.
I have been writing articles and reviews for a number of years and for a variety of publications and websites. I started writing for my own website and the early pieces were mainly information articles. I added a few other pieces about experiences or destinations I'd visited then, more recntly, started doing a number of reviews for a variety of products.
The main reason for continuing to write is that I enjoy it and enjoy sharing information with other outdoor people. It wouldn't be worth it for the financial benefits - I rarely get paid to write although I sometimes get some advertising space or a mention for my business. For equipment reviews I sometimes get some equipment.
Equipment reviews are probably, for me, the hardest things to write. I want to ensure the equipment is thoroughly tested, to try and be spot on with the technical details but also, most importantly, be accurate about how the equipment performs.
If I find a problem with a product I want to make sure I share that. I tested the items thoroughly in a variety of mountain areas and asked for an extension to the submission date to give a bit more time to use a few items in another location. I also used some of the 'crossover' items like the helmet and harness for both climbing and mountaineering as well as scrambling. Finally, when there was a couple of technical points I wanted to clarify I chatted to BD distributors First Ascent and La Sportiva distributer Lyon Equipment in some depth (thanks to both for their time). If I read a review I want to believe what I read and that's the model I use when writing mine.
This article seems to have crossed a boundary because it was a brief look at several items which, in some cases, crossed between scrambling and climbing. I am very happy that I have judged their pros and cons accurately and hope that I pointed out any potential problems (such as pointing out how some people feel the sole unit on the Evos wears fairly quickly). I fully appreciate, however, that some of the kit would be a very top end choice for scrambling. The Arcteryx harness was mentioned by several people and it is an expensive bit of kit - but that doesn't mean it in't suited for scramblers (I actually now see it as a great all rounder for mountaineering, climbing, winter....and scrambling).
It is also a difficult balance when discussing higher end equipment. For years my scrambling rope was a length of retired climbing rope that I'd cut down and trekking poles can be bought for £15 a pair. Your idea of suggesting cheaper alternatives is a good one. I was talking to someone today about writing an article on budget kit and hope to get around to doing that. But this other gear is out there and, as a few of the relpies have shown, some readers want to know about them and their relative pros and cons.
I've learnt a lot from the responses to this article and really appreciate the points you've made too.
Who do you write reviews for?
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...