UKC

NEWS: How Many People Go Mountaineering In England?

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 UKC News 08 Apr 2011
The perfect view, 3 kbThe Sport England Active People Survey calculates that 111,300 adults go mountaineering in England.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=61521
 Milesy 08 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Indoor Climbing is Mountaineering now?
 Tall Clare 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Milesy:

it is if you squint a bit... okay, very hard...?

I was wondering about that too... my personal perception of mountaineering (as opposed to the dictionary one) is that it involves mountains, weather and strenuousness, and that the only way it really comes into play in the UK is in winter climbing. Perhaps that's just me though.
ice.solo 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Milesy:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> Indoor Climbing is Mountaineering now?

beat me to it.
 ericinbristol 08 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Even more amusing that mountaineering includes bouldering...
ccmm 08 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News: There must be some really big boulders in England!
 Monk 08 Apr 2011
In reply to all:

To be fair to SportEngland here (as someone who has done the surveys for the last 3 or 4 years), the actual category is Climbing/Mountaineering.
ice.solo 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Monk:

ok. still, bouldering?
 Tall Clare 08 Apr 2011
In reply to ice.solo:

Do you not need oxygen, a down suit and a thousand-yard stare that's faced fear unimaginable to mere mortals, for bouldering?

<looks blank>
 richprideaux 08 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Well, Plas y Brenin will do well out of this...
In reply to UKC News: If this survey was accurate then half of the climbing walls in England would be shutting next week
 TobyA 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Graeme Alderson: I guess the "weekly" bit brings the numbers down, although as it includes hill walking I was surprised the number wasn't a bit higher.
 Milesy 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Monk:
> (In reply to all)
>
> To be fair to SportEngland here (as someone who has done the surveys for the last 3 or 4 years), the actual category is Climbing/Mountaineering.

Even still, to include Indoor Climbing is going to skew results on actual people going into the hills to walk or climb (as UKC have now printed as De facto)
 newhey 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Craig Mc:
> (In reply to UKC News) There must be some really big boulders in England!

The Douglas Boulder is pretty big. I suppose though it is in Scotland and it is not really a boulder.
 Monk 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Milesy:
> (In reply to Monk)
> [...]
>
> Even still, to include Indoor Climbing is going to skew results on actual people going into the hills to walk or climb (as UKC have now printed as De facto)

But that isn't what Sport England are interested in. They are interested in participation in general, not management of the outdoors. The UKC article basically states clearly and concisely exactly what the survey found. They make no comment as to how many people are 'in the hills' based on this survey.
 Milesy 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Monk:

UKC should have said Climbing & Mountaineering then.

I am uncomfortable with it all being thrown under one big umbrella anyway. How would footballers or rugby players feel if they had to pick an option called "ball sports"? They even let rugby union and league get their own sections.?
ccmm 08 Apr 2011
In reply to newhey:
> (In reply to Craig Mc)

> The Douglas Boulder is pretty big.

Still a boulder though. Jimmy Marshall did the sit start of the FA of Direct Route in '58. He scratched the rock with his tricouni's getting established on it so he gave it a winter grade in order to stop the hill police moaning at him. He would have graded it V2 if he new what the fek that meant.
Chris Ellyatt 08 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News: They should do another survey with more options. I think the number of the population doing 'actual' mountaineering is probably more like 10,000, maybe less.

Chris
 Jim Braid 08 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News:


The Sport England Active People Survey calculates that 111,300 adults go mountaineering in the UK.

Not true. The estimate is only for England. There is no mention in their results of the other parts of the UK.

I would have expected UKC News to be aware of the difference between England and the UK. 0/10.

 Michael Ryan 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Jim Braid:

Corrected Jim. Thank you. Apologies for the mistake.

Mick
 Jim Braid 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC: Heading is corrected, first line isn't. I'm just surprised I was the first to point it out.
 Tomar 08 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News: My wife walks the dog on the hills, does that make her a mountaineer?
 Michael Ryan 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Jim Braid:

I'm more surprised at my mistake!

Defining all the different types of climbing/mountaineering/hill walking under one heading is difficult.
ice.solo 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:

climbing and hillwalking?
 galpinos 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Milesy:

> I am uncomfortable with it all being thrown under one big umbrella anyway.

You're "uncomforatble" with Sport England using an umbrella term for some tinpot survey? Really?
 hamsforlegs 08 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News:

The survey is important in as much as some sports receive funding from Sport England. The contract negotiations and even the detailed terms of the funding arrangements will make various references to participation levels.

I don't know how much funding the BMC or other climbing organisations receive from SE, whether this is ringfenced for specific projects, or how contingent this funding is on participation data.

The survey is not 'tinpot' - it is a pretty major piece of work that determines how tens of millions of pounds are spent.

It does, however, have some serious methodological flaws, which were shown up recently when some sports found inexplicably huge swings in the apparent participation rates among some sectors.

i don't think we should fret over the 'name' of the category. Basically it's 'stuff that the BMC has an interest in'. The categorisation probably seems perfectly natural to most of the population, and unless Sport England want to begin ringfence their investments for spend on bouldering, hillwalking etc, it really doesn't matter. I'm sure the BMC and other contracting partners will raise the right questions if this issue comes around.

Mark
 squicky 08 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News:

There are mountains in the UK?!

I was a bit disappointed when I did my ML training last summer that it had nothing to do with mountains (or much to do with leading either AFAICT). Scrambling Co-ordinator might have been a better description, though it doesn't sound as sexy
 Ewan Russell 08 Apr 2011
In reply to squick:
really???
Im guessing your a troll
In reply to UKC News:

Absolutely absurd to call Indoor Climbing 'mountaineering' because by definition it isn't. An indoor climbing wall is not a mountain or part of a mountain. One might just as well call trampolining mountaineering.
 graeme jackson 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Tall Clare:
> my personal perception of mountaineering (as opposed to the dictionary one) is that it involves mountains, weather and strenuousness, and that the only way it really comes into play in the UK is in winter climbing.

Could equally apply to a summer walk in the lake district where you will have mountains, weather and the possibilty of some strenuousness.
 Simon4 08 Apr 2011
In reply to amanonaspeedingbike:

> The survey is not 'tinpot' - it is a pretty major piece of work that determines how tens of millions of pounds are spent.

Non sequitur. Why would the one preclude the other?

> .... Sport England want to begin ringfence their investments for spend on bouldering, hillwalking etc,

What is the rate of return on these "investments"? Should anyone with a nest egg put it all in the footpath futures market?
 Stone Muppet 08 Apr 2011
Yeah I do half an hour of high altitude mountaineering every week, usually on a Tuesday night.
 winhill 08 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News:

I wonder how shooting still qualifies as a sport.

If lying very still and slightly moving one finger is a sport then bird watching, which involves lying very still and slightly moving a thermos should be the marathon event.
 flaneur 08 Apr 2011
In reply to the pedants:

Mountaineering is any activity covered by the British Mountaineering Council!

I'd be interested to know how 110,000 a week compares with so-called "country sports".
 hamsforlegs 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Simon4:

Fair point re 'tinpot'. Guess it depends on what you mean by that word. My point was that it is quite an expensively commissioned piece of research that purports to be authoritative, and really should be of quality. 'Tinpot' normally implies that something is done cheaply or without adequate resources (and hence is normally of poor quality). This is well resourced. Whether it is of quality is a different question.

The rate of return on these 'investments' would have to be measured in public policy outcomes. You'd have to ask SE how it measures them at a macro level. I appreciate you were being facetious, but these literally are large investments of funds from the public purse, usually linked to specific outcomes, so my terminology wasn't misplaced.

Mark
 Simon4 08 Apr 2011
In reply to amanonaspeedingbike: Given the politeness of your response, it seems unkind to continue to tease (unfortunately).

However this is a pretty off-putting and jargonistic way of expressing oneself.
 hamsforlegs 08 Apr 2011
In reply to Simon4:

Fair!

We were debating a SportEngland participation survey. I didn't want to risk too much plain English creeping in.

 bryn 08 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News:

I like the fact that the pic used in this article is in Wales
 Howard J 09 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News: This could actually underestimate the number of mountaineers. The criteria (1 day a week, or 4 days in 28) are slanted against mountaineering, which for many people is a weekend-only activity. Someone who gets away once a month for a weekend of hard hill-bashing won't be counted, whereas someone who toddles along to their local wall once a week for 30 minutes moderate bouldering will be.
 simondgee 10 Apr 2011
In reply to Howard J:
> (In reply to UKC News) Someone who gets away once a month for a weekend of hard hill-bashing won't be counted, whereas someone who toddles along to their local wall once a week for 30 minutes moderate bouldering will be.

260,000 at once a month participation level in essence 42% take part at the 1 week 3.
If you want a real chuckle delve into the segmentation groups...
 chris wyatt 12 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News: Well her's an intersting factoid :

According to the servey 0.7% of people in westminster participate in mountaineering whereas in sheffield it's 0.4%. Up in the north lakes its also 0.4%

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