UKC

The BMC Access Team of Cath Flitcroft, Rob Dyer and Elfyn Jones are LIVE NOW on UKC to answer your questions.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=58631

In reply to UKC News: Morning all!

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

Just to start off.... What do you see as the main threat to access to crags in the future... review of CroW, Forest areas sold off?

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

Morning Rob.

There was a short thread a few weeks ago about access at Dover being rescinded by the National Trust. There seemed to be very little interest in the situation there, not the most popular climbing locations granted, but historically important and quality nonetheless.

I know you said that you were on the case with this, just wondering if any progress has been made?

Cheers,
Tom

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC): Something that seems to frequently crop up is the issue of landowner liability following a climbing accident. This is really just a percieved issue as climbers are very unlikely to sue following an accident so Cath is currently working on an Occupiers Liability information leaflet which we can give to landowners that have raised concerns.

In reply to UKC News:

Bore Da everyone,

Survived the M56, and now ready for your Welsh access questions!

Elfyn

In reply to Southern Man: Hi Tom. Yes I had a meeting with the National Trust Property Manager where we walked the cliffs looking at the areas he was concerned with. From this he suggested some restictions which I posted up in a separate thread to the one you replied to, asking for comments (http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=429872&v=1#x6085846). There wasn't a huge amount of feedback - I guess mainly due to very few people climbing there these days, but what I did get back was positive with people seeming to take the view that some access is better than none. I've been out of the office for most of the last two weeks at various meetings but will be cracking on with progressing things this week - I'll update the previous thread when anything has been confirmed.

In reply to UKC News: Beyond the probable forestry sell off, the government is making no secret that it would like to see most publicly owned land of conservation importance in private hands/ management. After some dithering, from what I can see, a lot of the well known conservation bodies (notably RSPB) seem to have decided that this could be all their christmas and birthdays coming at once. Should we be worried about the access implications?

In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales:

What was the score with the rather intrusive and ugly re-fencing at the top of Bwlch y Moch? It was neatened up last time I was there, thankfully, but the BMC seemd to have "lost" a metre or so of land in some places making it a bit awkward not to snag clothing and stuff on the new fence.

In reply to toad: I think we can expect some changes in the coming months but I don’t think we should be overly concerned at the moment. A lot of publicly owned land is covered by pieces of legislation like the Countryside and Rights of Way Act so access won’t be affected and we have good working relations with the large conservation / land owning bodies (whose own objectives include public access). In Wales, the Minster for Rural Affairs has said that the decisions re: selling public land will be made by the Assembly and so far, it appears that this is not what they want to pursue.

In reply to JonC:
The "new" fence on top of Bwlch y Moch is a replacement of the original fence (which was very similar to the new one, but had become covered in vegetation over the years). The BMC does not own the top of the cliff at all, only to the very top of the clif edge, and the farmer could have put the fence along the exact top of the cliff (and in places the projected line of the fence was literally at the very top of the cliff, but we managed to negotiate to get the fence moved back where this was about to happen. It's still closer to the top of the cliff in places than the old one, but there were practical problems with getting post holes drilled and excavated for the new fence, but there still pleanty of space for us to walk along the top of the cliff to the descent paths.
I'm quite optimisitic that, as with the old fence this new one will soon get covered in brambles and be less visible than it now.

Elfyn

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC): I think the biggest threat at the moment is ensuring that access / recreation is on the new coalition Government's agenda. The recent White Paper on the Natural Environment is very thin on including key messages like people engagement / access to the natural environment / enjoyment of the natural environment. The BMC response has clearly highlighted this issue and the BMC will raise this issue further with the Minister Richard Benyon, other MPs and are likely to form a coalition with other outdoor / conservation organisations to raise the profile of this. We will also be pushing for Government to continue implementing better coastal access (under the new Marine and Coastal Access Act).

In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales:


I didn't realise this; thanks for explaining. I have been going to Trem for years and was a bit sad when the new fence started to be put in place as it was a bit of a mess but it is now better.


I'm sure it will.

Thanks for the response.

Incidentally, whilst I support the annual pruning at Trem to clear routes of ivy etc, I am not sure that some of the tree felling hasn't gone a tad far. Though I am aware this was all allowed activity. Again, perhaps it just looks a bit raw now and will blend in over the coming year or two.

In reply to UKC News:

Could I also ask, what is the current state of place at Alderly Cliff? I recall the car park had been closed off due to people messing the place up I am aware but this was to be reviewed I think?

In reply to Cath Flitcroft, BMC: The RSPB aren't as hot on access as other bodies, particularly where it conflicts with their members interests (ie that there is a chance of visitor disturbance moving birds from locations where they can be easily observed) and they seem to be the main body mobilising for a land grab - perhaps I'm seeing shadows where none exist, but neither should a relatively small body like the BMC underestimate quite how quick they can move. I think the Eastern Moors arrangement will be an interesting case study, but then this is in an area where access is pretty much set in concrete.

In reply to JonC:
It's not intended to fell any more trees at Bwlch y Moch - the only trees that were felled were sycamores, and on the advice of a qualified tree surgeon and a Forestry Commission adviser (the work was all paid for with a Woodland grant scheme from the Forestry Commission.
I agree it did look a bit "raw" at first but should now encourage re-growth of native trees, and the new paths will encourage climbers to stick to defined approach paths (and be able to locate the routes!), allowing the land between the paths to "re-wild" and re-vegetate.

Elfyn

In reply to JonC: Hi Jon, there was a history of flytipping here which led to a lock being put on the gate some time ago. However the lock has since been removed and no further flytipping has occurred (touch wood!) - the gate is now secured with a loop of rope to stop it swinging open. Your options for parking are either in the quarry through the gate or on the road as long as you dont block access to gates or the road.

In reply to toad: The BMC had a strategic and very positive meeting with the RSPB a few weeks ago. They have said they are happy to ‘trial’ climbing in some areas where Schedule 1 species are nesting on popular crags – which is good news for us (no blanket bans). We have a really good relationship with the RSPB and are working effectively with them across the country so to date, there are few issues of concern. In the past few months, we have also had good on site meetings with the RSPB and with some significant gains (e.g. better access on the Lleyn Peninsula).

In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales:

Great; I'm all for active management of the land. Again, good to hear some facts, thanks.

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC: As an aside, Alderly has recently had a spruce up with a contractor mowing the grass and nettle/bramble patches and Buxton MC spending a day pruning trees and restoring the crag, so it's well worth a visit!

A new question:

I was really horrified at a visit to Kilnsey earlier this year to see how climbers had used the nearest stream (as it was in the trees) as a toilet. I hadn't seen anything so disgusting since being in Kalymnos at the end of the season.

Malham doesn't seem to get this problem, despite a similar concentration of climbers, I guess because most places are in full view of tourists and peregrine watchers with telescopes, but mainly because of public toilets in the village.

At Chateauvert in Provence, the local council have put composting toilets near where climbers park. How about something similar at Kilnsey and other crags where this is an issue?

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

I was at Aldery not all that long ago, and there is a fair bit of work that need doing in my opinion, there as a lot of trees starting to grow on the crag itself, which will soon pull the crag apart (in the same way we discussed the other day). Also, there are some very good routes which are not in the Rockfax guidebook, they are currently unclimbable due to vegiatation, i think this needs sorting out ASAP before the routes are ost forever.

However, Buxton MC may have done this work since i was there.

In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales:

Are negotiations still on going with the farmer over Craig y Forwyn or are we back to a stalemate? (for the central section)

In reply to Cath Flitcroft, BMC: that's really good to hear. I'll be more than happy to be proved paranoid

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

It's a very nice crag. Not sure I should mention this but I seem to recall there was a bat in Mitre Crack a couple of years ago. Is there any potential issue with that? Though I don't think it was there last time we did it.

In reply to Dan Lane: Hi Dan, I'm not sure when you were at Aldery last, but the work I've mentioned has taken place in the last two weeks so the crag should be looking good now.

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

Rob.

Sorry I obviously missed that thread. Thanks for outlining all the proposals there - it certainly seems that should it come to fruition, then that would be an pretty fair arrangement all around.
The initial outright ban seemed pretty draconian and to my mind the only concern that they had that held any water with relation to the area as a whole was that of nesting birds. Nice to see that these are the concerns that have been mooted and addressed, thanks in no small part to you no doubt.

I'd echo the general points about bans being lifted early on the basis of early fledges.

Thanks for all your work.

Tom.

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

I was there just over a month ago so my comments may well no longer be true.

In reply to Abi Chard: At Kilnsey it's just as easy to walk 100 yards down the road, go into the pub, buy a small lemonade then use the facilities on offer as a paying customer.

Malham has toilets in the village.

Andy F

In reply to Abi Chard: Hi Abi, I think this is more an issue of education rather than providing facilities - the BMC has advice on 'crag toileting' in our Green Guide to the Uplands (http://www.thebmc.co.uk/greenguides). Kilnsey is on private land so we would need to get the landowner's permission to build a toilet on the site, along with planning permission and potentially water quality or waste permits from the Environment Agency. Added to the maintenance required (even composting toilets need some maintenance) and it becomes quite a task. Educating climbers as to appropriate behaviour has further reaching benefits, not only to Kilnsey but all other crags which are gradually experiencing similar problems more and more. We would also encourage climbers to use local facilities such as pubs and cafes and use the toilets while they’re there – that way we’re giving something back to the local economy.

In reply to JonC: Hi Jon, thanks for that - it's not something I'm aware of being fairly new in post but I'll look into it, see if there is a bat roosting and get back to you.

In reply to Dan Lane:

Hi Dan

We did alot of work there just last weekend and have made a good start on the saplings at the base of the crag and many on routes. We already have plans for opening up some overgrown routes at the start of next year (mostly a moss problem now as we hacked alot of overhanging trees and vegetation on routes...)

Think if you went down now you would see a big difference on routes that have traffic and hopefully a the start of next summer some old routes re-opened.

Ross
Buxton MC

In reply to Tyler:

I wondered how long it would take for this venue to be raised!

Craig y Forwyn is complex, but the owner of the central section (who owns the caravan park below the cliff) has made it very clear that he will not be giving permission to climbers to climb on his part of the cliff. Despite previous assumptions to the contrary, it appears that he does own the central section of the cliff, up to the edge of the cliff top (and so owns the actual cliff face) and has registered his ownership of the cliff with the land registry.
The right hand side is owned by yet another private owner, who has unfortunately also stated that she does not wish to see climbers on her land. The cliff is also an SSSI and we have an agreement with CCW regarding cleaning of routes only on the left hand side of the crag.
While access arrangements to this cliff are unsatisfactory we continue to try to negotiate with the owner and will not be giving up on this one!
The owner of the left hand side is very agreeable to access and please follow the access and approach instructions on the RAD and the North Wales Limestone wikki to preserve the limited access that we have.

Elfyn

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

Hi Rob,

I agree it's about education and that's the only long term solution - and as Andy says, it's very easy to go down the road to the pub at Kilnsey. But maybe as part of that education - the BMC could put a sign on the path at the edge of the trees, asking people to stop and think about other options before they foul up the stream?

It's behaviour like this by climbers that risks access - they've probably only got away with it for so long because no non-climbers use that path.

I rarely post to these forums, but I was prompted too because I've never seen anything as bad as the situation at Kilnsey anywhere else in the UK. It really was awful!

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

Sounds like you have done exactly what needed doing, i'm sure it wont be long until i'm down there again, good work.

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

Good morning,

Is there any update to the well documented access problems at Vixen Tor? Is this now an archives issue or there still an ongoing campaign and if so what co-operation is there with the Ramblers Association and other groups who have sought to regain access?

In reply to UKC News:

Hey guys.

Another quick question.

Take it there's no movement, or anything to report on Vixen Tor?

Cheers,
Tom

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:
If you log an access issue via the option on the RAD crag pages, the report seems to disappear into a black hole. I know everyone's busy so don't expect an fast reply, but could it send an automated email just to confirm receipt of the report? I logged an issue a few weeks ago and have no idea if it's on someone's "to do" list, or has fallen victim to a computer glitch!

In reply to Abi Chard: Hi Abi, it's certainly a good idea but as it is private land we will have to get permission from the landowner before putting signs up. I'll add this to the 'to do' list and get in contact with the landowner to see if they're happy for us put up an advisory sign.

In reply to Dan Lane:

Thanks, it was a good group effort by the club, 3 massive mounds of cuttings to be dealth with over the next few weeks. Also tidied up the overhanging branches etc from the walk off

.... just needs some dry weather a the start of next year to help us tackle the mossed up routes

In reply to TMM: There will be a public inquiry into the proposal (made by the Ramblers, BMC and the Vixen tor Action Group in 2008) to modify the definitive map. A definitive map modification order was submitted in 2008 by the above organisations outlining the addition of four new Rights of Way at Vixen Tor. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the landowner has objected to these proposals and an inquiry will be held in Princetown on 23rd November this year. The Ramblers have submitted a statement of case on behalf of the original applicants (i.e. the BMC, the RA and the VTAG) and will be giving evidence on the day. Dave Turnbull from the BMC will also be present. We will have to wait and see the outcome but the statement of case is very strong thanks to everyone submitting evidence of visiting the site over the past 40 or so years. The campaign is ongoing....

In reply to Toreador:
Thanks for pointing this out to us - it's a problem with the RAD we were not aware of. I've had a word with our Web expert at the office and hopefully this should be fixed in the next day or so.

In the meantime if you (or anyone else for that matter) has a specific site based issue, then please contact either myself or Rob directly.

Elfyn

In reply to Abi Chard:

I agree, I don't understand why people need to go in those bushes below Mandela which get precious little rain, or under the easy routes on the left hand end of the crag, it's not much effort to walk a bit further on. I've mentioned before that it would be good if the BMC could get involved to provide some parking and toilet facilities here as the place is getting busier each year and real problems can't be far away.......

In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales:

Thanks Elfyn, it's a shame but it seems there is nothing more that can be done.

We're just heading out for lunch for 20-30 mins. Keep posting up questions and we'll answer them when we get back

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

What is the BMC policy on acquiring ownership rights over crags (where thsi becomes possible) and how is it funded?

In reply to UKC News: Hi guys, I don't know if you'll be able to answer this but I'll ask anyway.
We've developed a bolted dry tooling crag in North Wales. Above the crag is a golf course and they dump all their tree cutting over the edge therefore building up into a huge pile and restricting access to our routes. They don't own the land below the crag and we believe it is owned by the council.
We have no agreement to climb there and if we were to ask permission I would be very surprised if we'd get it as the crag would be considered high risk by most people.
My question is; how do we go about getting the rubbish removed without jeopardising our access?
My personal view is, we are probably better keeping a low profile as we are in a no win situation.

In reply to Cath Flitcroft, BMC:

Thanks for the update Cath.

I am glad that evidence of usage which was filled in by a LOT of people will hopefully prove useful.

In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales: Barmouth Quarry.
I was wondering if there has been a reapplication for access since this area was closed to climber back in the 80's.

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

Hi Rob, Jon Leighton here.

I was climbing at Symonds Yat over the weekend with two of the recent CC guidebook authors. They commented that there were actually masses of crags in the area on which climbing is prohibited - some of the crags are at least as extensive as the Yat itself.

Some of these crags are on Forestry Commission land who's reason for a year round ban is Peregrine nesting. Now obviously many crags have seasonal bans for the same reasons, so is the FC reason valid or perhaps a bit of a cop out? I mean what happens to Peregrines once the chicks have flown the nest?

Are the BMC aware of these crags (I'm not the local expert so I don't know details, but could prob get them)?
Would the BMC be potentially interested in taking the issue further or is there history that I am unaware of?

JL

In reply to frost:
It's an interesting one - do you know if the golf club owners are deliberately throwing the cuttings over the edge to dissuade climbing, or are they oblivious to the fact that climbing is taking place?

Either way they shouldn't be dumping rubbish onto other people's land!

If you contact me direct by e-mail (I think I know this site, and we have good contacts in the local authority) then I'll dicreetly look into it, and do some searches to find out who the owners are, etc.

Elfyn

In reply to airbournegrapefruit:
Someone else raised this with me a few weeks ago, and it's one that I need to look into. I'm not sure if the quarry is owned by the county council (Gwynedd) or the local Barmouth Town Council, but I think that one of the reasons for the ban was a fear of loose rock falling onto the public. The established routes are traditional routes that "topped out" on the loose tops, and it's possible that a similar agreement to Upper Pen Trwyn could be tried, with lower offs placed below the tops, avoiding the need to climb over the loose finishes, but the ethics of this would also need to be agreed by the local area!

Watch this space on this one - but it will probably be early in the new year by the time I get round to this!

Elfyn

In reply to JonC: Hi Jon, the BMC’s policy is essentially crag purchase will only be considered as a last resort . In taking on a new crag/piece of land the BMC will have to invest considerable staff time in managing the site as well as financial resources so it’s a decision that can’t be taken lightly. In addition, we don’t want to create a market for crags with owners of otherwise useless areas of land attempting to sell it off for climbing and denying access otherwise.

However, if all other options have been exhausted and the crag is felt to be a worthwhile venue, the possibility of purchase can be raised through a BMC Area meeting. If the meeting is in agreement that it is worth taking forward the proposal would be looked at by the BMC’s Land Management Group and their recommendations then scrutinised by various BMC committees. If the crag was indeed purchased, a management group would then be set up comprising of local climbers who could then steer us as BMC Officers as to any tasks that need to be carried out at the site.

In reply to jonny2vests: Hi Jon, as a recently ex-Cardiff bod I spent a fair bit of time climbing in the Wye Valley prior to moving north for this job, however I'm not aware of any of these banned crags (unless it's some of the very nearby Forest of Dean crags you're thinking of?) Either way, I'm more than happy to see if we can improve the situation if either you or the guidebook authors get in touch with some more details. Peregrines can stay in the area of crags year round after chicks fledge so this may be why they are currently banned but without any further info it's hard to give a proper answer.

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

Regarding the Wye Valley/Forest of Dean crags:

It was me who Jonny was talking to and am currently researching the area. I will contact the BMC once i have all relevant information.

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

Ok, thanks Rob. I've emailed one of the guys, I'll get back to you.

In reply to Dark Mavis:

Beat me to it.

In reply to Dark Mavis: Good stuff - I'd be more than happy to help wherever possible so let me know once you do.

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC: Any more questions guys?

In reply to UKC News: Elfyn, I see access to Minchin Hole on Gower has recent opened up [good work!]. Just out of interest, are there any other crags in the area that are likely to have restrictions lifted in the forseeable future?

Also, given the amount of development ongoing of late on Gower, have there been any concerns raised with the BMC?

Ta

In reply to irish paul:

Thanks for this question - and very timely since this very matter will be discussed at the BMC South Wales Area meeting on Wednesday evening on Nov 3rd at the Beufort Arms at Kittle, Bishopston, just outside Swansea.

A number of new sports climbing areas have been developed along the South Gower coast in recent years, and many in areas or on buttresses that were not included in the original bolt agreement that was drawn up in the nineties.

While its up to local and other climbers with an interest to agree on the ethics and where bolts are acceptable, some of the south Gower sites are especially sensitive from a conservation perspective. Many are SSSI's and some have considerable archaelogical interests. There are also known bat roosts on some of the cliffs, as well as nesting choughs, so lots to consider.

The land owners (National Trust)are generally very supportive of climbing on their land, but some detailed agreements are needed here to protect the site, but also allow climbing.

The local BMC rep Sturat Llewellyn has worked hard to produce detailed notes and photos of this coast whcih will help with the discussions on Wednesday night.

Elfyn

In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales:

Link to the meeting here:-

http://community.thebmc.co.uk/Event.aspx?id=402

Also apologies, getting tired now, it's Stuart Llewellyn not Sturat!

Elfyn

In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales:

did any good suggestions come up at the pyp meeting back in September about parking problems in the pass ? (not strictly an access issue i realise)

In reply to Jim Hamilton:
It was discussed at the last meeting, but as is often and usual with this topic, opinions were divided, and there is no obvious or simple solution.
The simple matter is that the demand for parking in the Pass at peak times and on most weekends far outstrips the spaces that are available.
The option of creating more parking spaces that would satisfy demand is simply not an option -who would want to see acres of new hard standing and levelled ground in this area?
We are working with the authorities to try to get a sensible and useable path from Nant Peris along the roadside, which would provide a safe and uesable path that climbers, boulderers and walkers could use, but this is likely to be some way off due to funding and highway issues.

On a more positive note, work has now started on the path leading from Pen y Gwryd to Pen y Pass, which should be completed by next spring.

Elfyn

In reply to Cath Flitcroft, BMC:

The best sandstone crag in the country, Lazonby, has been closed to climbers for several years now. Are access negotiations still ongoing or has it been dismissed as a lost cause?

In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales: The golf club have been dumping for years by the look of it, and are oblivious to the climbing.
The risk as I see it, is any level of awareness that is raised about the climbing with any landowner could loose the discreet access we currently have, but I'll email you anyway.
thanks

In reply to tim carruthers: Hi Old Skool, I actually had a meeting with Ron Kenyon who is our Eden Valley Access Rep last week and we went through a number of contentious crags in the area but Lazonby wasn't mentioned. I'll discuss it with him though and see if there is any scope to improve the situation there in future.

In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales: Bore Da Elfyn.

Just thought I'd say hi. Hope all is good in the homeland. Looking forward to getting back there in the new year.

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:
Any news on recent developments at The Hoff?

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

Cheers. Agreed access would certainly beat sneaking up from the river in stealth mode to grab Cobweb Wall before the gamekeeper grabs you!

In reply to Mark Reeves:
Hi Mark

I'm sure the weather where you are is a bit sunnier than 'Beris at the moment!
Hope it's going well for you - any access problems in Chile/Patagonia that needs a BMC Access officer to carry out a site visit to resolve?
Needs to be bi-lingual Welsh/Spanish of course (Hablo (un poco)Espannol ac siarad Cymraeg!)

cheers
Elfyn

In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales: Hi Elfyn

Loads of access issues, as all the crags are on private land, so you need to spend a lot of time, I should hassen to say with a local spainish climber, talking to the owner, drink mate, and generally taking the time to let them get to know you. Typically we are having to pay to access the land, although in the most part we are only paying for camping on there land.

Make me realise just how lucky we are in the to have the BMC to fight for free access.

I am not in the welsh speaking area of patatgonia


Mark

In reply to Mark Reeves: Might be sunnier, but the wind is relentless, I need to buy goggles to climb with during the windiest days

In reply to Toreador: Hi Toreador, that was one of the crags we had a chat about - it seems that the 'no climbing' signs that have been put up are down to liability worries from the landowner. We're trying to organise a meeting to see if we can address any of those concerns and get access approved again.

In reply to UKC News:

Thanks to all the questions recieved so far - I've now got to get back to Wales. If there are any outstanding issues, then I'll have look tomorrow and respond then.
In the meantime Rob and Cath will still be answering questions until about 5.30 pm.

hwyl

Elfyn

In reply to UKC News: At the risk of sounding like a big swot, I think it's worth highlighting what a big vote of thanks we owe you three. The fact that climbing has such a positive name with the majority of landowners and conservation bodies is down in no small part to your hard work and a big dollop of professionalism in the face of a disparate band of armchair experts and no small number of self interested parties on both sides of the fence (crag?).

Ta very much!

In reply to toad: Thanks Toad and thanks to everyone for all your questions, we're signing off now but if anyone thinks of anything else they want to ask, post up and we'll check the thread again tomorrow morning. Cheers, Rob & Cath

In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales:
Hi Elfyn. The Diamond - the bird restriction for this cliff covers some areas where the sea-birds don't nest - many of the best parts where it's too steep and where there's no ledges for birds to nest.
The SSSI citation for the Little Orme's Head (link here: http://www.ccw.gov.uk/idoc.ashx?docid=278013d7-610c-4d90-9974-7655c0ef28ac&... lists Cormorants as the main biological 'feature', as well as Razorbills, Guillimots and Shags. All of these birds nest on the grass terraces high above and a long way away from the actual Diamond cliff, and they don't get disturbed at all by climbers on most parts of The Diamond. It's mostly just Fulmars nesting on small parts of The Diamond.
The SSSI management plan (link here!: http://www.ccw.gov.uk/idoc.ashx?docid=9e874ede-80d5-4f47-afe0-27cb61bcd3be&... makes it clear that the March 1st - August 15th climbing restriction is in place to protect the breeding Cormorants from disturbance.
It seems to me that the bird restriction for The Diamond should be much shorter and should be based on the breeding Fulmars, and not the Cormorants.
Would it be possible to do something similar to what was done on the Lleyn - ie a boat trip at peak breeding time with yourself, the RSPB wardens/North Wales Wildlife Trust people and a couple of local climbers to see if it's possible to make any adjustments to the restrictions? Even a couple of weeks less at the start or end of the restriction period would make a big difference to the enjoyment of this remarkable venue - one of the best sportclimbing cliffs in the country.
P.S. cheers for all your hard work!

In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:

Hi Rob, has any progress been made regards Wilton 4 and the moving of the soil up to the wall, I have also been asked if Wilton 2 is subject to Crow

In reply to petejh:

Hi Pete
There are apparently issues with birds nesting on the approach scramble?
The Little Orme is privately owned and is not part of the Gt Orme country Park set up, so we'd need to involve CCW and RSPB staff, rather than the Country Park wardens.
I think a boat trip in late spring/early summer (when the birds are nesting) would be ideal to identify exactly where the birds are nesting would be great.

I'll catch up with you in the next few weeks to discuss further.

cheers
Elfyn

In reply to GeoffM: Hi Geoff, I've spoken to Bolton Rifle & Pistol Club who own Wilton 4 and discussed the earth berm with them. They never intened it being as close to the crag as it is (i.e right up against it) but the top of the berm has toppled over filling in the gap they left. The contractor who is constructing the new air rifle range for them has been off site for a few weeks but will be back in November with machinery to move the berm back and leave space at the base of the crag.

Regarding Wilton 2, it is mapped as Open Access Land, however the shooting club can legally restrict access for reasons of public safety (ie when they are shooting). This is not a blanket restriction however, which is why the red flags are used to show when shooting is taking place and access is restricted.