UKC

As winter approaches news of some important developments and initiatives in the Cairngorm. A new head for the SportScotland Avalanche Information Service, and some courses to increase avalanche awareness plus new of the Poo Project - what to do when you need to go in the mountains.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=49686

In reply to UKC News: I could have done with one of these poo pots recently on the Idwal slabs......I wasn't well at all so maybe 2 or 3 would have been sufficient

In reply to UKC News: Surely its biodegradable anyway? im sure its not like people do it in the middle of a path!

In reply to Stuart_Burbidge:

The problem is when it's frozen - it stays frozen for quite some time.

In reply to bouldery bits: but still...when thawed, it will degrade. surely other animals have been doing this for many a year?

In reply to Stuart_Burbidge:

Have a read here - http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1363

Alan

In reply to Stuart_Burbidge:

Yes, and if there's the odd jobbie dotted around the cairngorms nobody would mind. The problem is that there are hotspots - around the snow holing areas and the bothies, for example, where there is a turd under virtually every rock (or not even under them) and in the spring you'd be forgiven for thinking a farmer had been spraying muck over the area...

In reply to johnSD: fair point, but on the other hand, that is just a large advertisement. is there not a possiblity that they are using statistics from other sources to highlight a possibly exagerrated need for a product? “Eighty percent of the world's illness is caused by fecal matter." ...now im sure the majority of those illnesses are not from your local crag?! and how many have actually caught an illness from being down a crag, let alone poo induced??

In reply to johnSD: in that case, you make a good point...id not noticed

In reply to bouldery bits:

I don't do frozen poos!

In reply to Stuart_Burbidge:

Yup, but the problem is carnivore waste. Herbivores deposit veg matter back into the ground- however many 'chocolate raisins', they decompose relatively quickly and are innocuous. Conversely, in any ecosystem, numbers of large carnivores are restricted by prey availability and territory- in any given area there will not normally be the amount of foul smelling, offensive waste to encounter on the hill... Enter the human, suddenly (in ecological terms), there is a huge influx of large mammals leaving a corresponding quantity of unpleasant material.

Now, it would be fantastic to be able to drop one off mid step as our four legged friends can (wouldn't that save a lot of messing about?!), but we have the mental capacity to realize the consequences of our actions and remove it from the equation.

Classic human reaction to the problem- what difference will my little poo make?

In reply to UKC News: If any shits need removing from the cairngorms, it's the giant ski lift and funicular shape shits.

In reply to Grim:
Well pointed out. Also most disease transfer happens between a species and its own feces, rather than that of others (which for many animals is a tasty treat). So basically, shitting where you and others play/sleep is not a good idea.

on a side note - the poop-tube idea seems to be catching on in Yosemite for big wall ascents, but there's still a fine scattering of humanure wrapped in brown paper below el cap, having been dropped from a great height. Made me wish I was wearing me helmet!

In reply to Pete Graham:

Not going to happend dude. I support the chairlift company and look forward to more good days skiing!

In reply to Donald M: Just trying to point out the difference in scale between the vairous intrusions humans have in the wilderness. My poo doesn't make money like the ski lifts unfortunately, so it's unacceptable...

p.s. there's also a big hut shape shit below the north face of the ben that could do with removing as well.

In reply to UKC News:

For me, toilet roll is as big an issue as the shite itself. If you're going to use toilet roll, then you should either burn it after (if safe to do so) or take it with you. But what's wrong with 'natural' toilet roll such as moss & bracken?

Are you really going to die if you have to cut about with a slightly shitty arse? No. It's a 'clean' product when it comes out, it gets dangerous later. But social conditioning has made us think it's unacceptable to wipe using anything except tissue; I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that this is more true of Women.

Then once you've done the biz, and you decide you're going to leave it in situ (cos you haven't got one of these fancy bags), bury it. Better still, pre-dig a small hole. In the army we called it cat sanitation.

In reply to jonny2vests: Moss is great stuff, it's super absorbant and tends to peel off in handy strips....only down side is you do end up with the odd mossy bits here and there but thats a very small price to pay

In reply to SGD: Rounded pebbles are the best.

In reply to MG:

Unless they're pre-used...

In reply to Toreador: how about shells.....like in demolition man?

In reply to SGD: Or just man up and use the snow.

In reply to Sean_J: Do you mean dog style where they pull themselves along with their back legs in the air?

In reply to Grim:

>Yup, but the problem is carnivore waste. Herbivores deposit veg matter back into the ground.

So should vegetarian hill-users shit all over the place in an effort to nourish the ground with veg matter?

In reply to Toreador:

or pre-placed ...

In reply to Pete Graham:

CairnGorm isn't a wilderness and hasn't been for at least hundreds of years. The victorians might have developed the impression it was and many have subscribed to that.

In reply to Stev1e:

It should be the case, but have you ever been into the small room after a veggie? Whoa!

In reply to Pete Graham: Very well said - couldn't agree more. I'd happily volunteer to demolish it!

In reply to Mr Powly:

Who are you volunteering your services to?

In reply to SGD:

Yes, but the moss has taken years to grow into a 'handy strip', and will end up paying a higher price than you will.....

Lex

In reply to UKC News:

This thread has got ridiculous. Who seriously wants to go climbing amongst other peoples shit? I have no problems sticking my face in cow or horse (or any vegetarian animal) shit but don't want to go anywhere near human shit. It's rank. It's dangerous (ask any medical practitioner). And in popular places like the northern corries in winter, it's everywhere. Look at New Zealand to see what happens when too many tourists shit in popular hiking places (Gardia problems in most of their rivers).

And if you really insist on shitting, dig a hole (and not just in the snow, but in the ground) and make sure its nowhere near running water (or a footpath). And burn your toilet paper. Don't use moss, the flora of the corries is rich in rare moss species.

In reply to Julie Black:

Great to hear about the Poo Project.

Similar things occur in many mountain areas in the world with great response from people.

Here's a success story:

Pack It Out!
Managing Your Human Waste While Visiting Mt. Whitney

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/packitout.shtml

Frequently Asked Questions

Why should I pack out my poop?

You'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you helped keep Mt. Whitney clean and beautiful.
You'll be able to relieve yourself wherever, and whenever you want to.
If you pack-out your poop, you won't contribute to a problem that has plagued Mt. Whitney for decades.
You will have fulfilled your obligation to "Leave-No-Trace".

Why can't I just bury my waste?

That's been tried on Mt. Whitney, and it does not work. Every year, from all directions, thousands of people converge at Mt. Whitney. The area simply cannot absorb the vast amount of human waste that visitors generate. Much of the area is solid bedrock. Where there is soil, it is coarse and shallow, and will not adequately isolate human waste. If everyone tried to bury their waste, they’d dig up other people’s waste in the process.


What if my pack-out kit breaks?

Leakage and breakage are extremely rare. Just use common sense; for example, don’t put it next to your crampons. If you are worried, bring additional zip-lock bags or a plastic jar to pack your kit in.


What do I do with my pack-out kit after I've used it?

Dispose of your used pack-out kit in the human waste receptacle at Whitney Portal.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Pack out kits are not uncommon in a lot of wilderness areas in the States. There are quite a few places, mostly National Parks, in my experience, where there are only a certain number of permits issued for access to delicate areas, and these permits include pack out kits. It seems to be accepted as part of the condition of respecting the environment and inflicting as little impact as possible.