Jeff Lowe's Ice World

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Steven Martin 09 Feb 2003
Does anybody have a copy of the above to hand? If so, take a look at the bottom left pic on p144.

Now, I've looked long and hard at this setup, and I'm not happy. Ignore the axes for now. He's bringing up the second on the top screw. If that pops, the lower one gets a big shock load. I know he's equalised the screws (though the single twist in the tape looks dodgy for this) and has tied himself to these, but even if they were equalised properly, that is negated by the rope going through the top one only. I know I am not fit to lick Jeffs crampons, and I don't mind being told I've missed something. So could someone help me out here?
Juki 09 Feb 2003
In reply to Steven Martin:
I've been thinking about the same thing. Mountaineering: Freedom of the hills has the same setup. I used that setup before but during this season I've changed my mind.
Pete A 09 Feb 2003
In reply to Juki: Depends on the ice really. If it's good quality ice then those screws can take 1000's of pounds of pull. No second is going to shock the set up like that. And if the person is leading on then they are already clipped to the top screw. Sometimes moving quickly is safer by far.
Steven Martin 09 Feb 2003
Have to disagree there, -how do you know if its good quality ice?, how do you know what the seconds going to do?
Yes the top screw is there exactly for that reason, to let the second follow through, but why not run the seconds rope through the equalised krab, and when they arrive, they just clip the top one?
Pete A 10 Feb 2003
In reply to Steven Martin: You can tell good ice visually, by the feel of the screw going in, by the absence of air pockets and surface shattering and the feel of how your tools penetrated. You know that your second cannot shock load the screw as unless you totally forget to take in and the 2nd climbs all the way up to you and then falls with a full slack rope there will be a semi taut rope running between you. Even in this worst case the loading will only be up to a factor 1 fall. If the ice is not vertical then the fall factor will be further reduced.
Steven Martin 10 Feb 2003
Ok, I thought you'd say that. But why rely on one when there's two available? What's wrong with halving the load on the screw? If my maths is right, two equalised screws are less likely to fail than this setup, where if one goes the other is likely to. Surely one should minimise risk. Krabs break, screws break, slings break, ice breaks, however unlikley it may seem. That how accidents happen, something goes wrong you weren't expecting. Would you ab off one bolt when there's two?
Pete A 12 Feb 2003
In reply to Steven Martin: You're not wrong - there's always some odd chance. I always make sure myself that if something go's wrong there is backup provision. But bringing 2nds up is very different to belaying a leader fall. I've held ppl standing without even weighting the anchors. Whatever your choices - always evaluate for dangers in the set-up and be aware.
 vscott 13 Feb 2003
In reply to Steven Martin: If anyone's seen his video on ice climbing there's a bit where he leads the crux- through an icicle roof direct onto a belay of two scews equalised with a twist not a knot..
OP Bobb 13 Feb 2003
In reply to Steven Martin:
As soon as I saw the title of the thread I guessed you would be complaining about that photo. You're right, its completely out of order. Not only is he putting the weight on only one screw but he is also doubling the weight on that one screw as opposed to taking the fall through the belayer's body. In order to balance the second's weight on the rope through the screw his weight will be on the other end of the rope running through the screw. Well dodgy.
Steven Martin 13 Feb 2003
In reply to Bobb:
I never thought of that. God it's worse than I thought.
Who's going to tell him?
PS. The runner on a twisted pair (?) is OK by me, he's using both screws to take any initial load. I was not sure if the 'twist in the photo was a proper one, difficult to see.

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...