Lota Corrie route, Bhasteir Tooth: where is it exactly?

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Tim Chappell 15 Jun 2009
So I had a crack at the Bhasteir Tooth on Friday. Being on my own and not fancying soloing Naismith's, I descended into Lota Corrie to find the easy way up.

And then what happened? Can Cuillin pundits tell me whether I found it or not? I went on down the scree with the Tooth on my L for a bit-- crucially, I'm not that sure how far, I'm afraid-- and there was this steep break in the rockface with a groove above it. There was some yellow ab tat about half way up.

I tried to get going on this, and didn't find it impossible to climb, but it was much too hard (I thought) to be a Mod, and steep and exposed. I backed off because I wasn't convinced I was on route, and didn't want to get in too deep. Also because, the first time back in the Cuillin since my accident last April, and the first time on really exposed scrambling, my head just wasn't right. And when my head says No, I believe it...

At the time I concluded I'd backed off the Lota Corrie Route, but thinking about it after I'm not so sure. What I backed off was definitely still part of the W face of the Tooth, not a ramp leading up the crest of the Tooth after the W face tapers out. But all the descriptions I've found of the LCR are too ambiguous to make me completely sure I didn't descend far enough. Nor can I google a single picture of the LCR!

Help, anyone?
 Solaris 15 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Sounds like the experience I had taking some scramblers along the ridge! It's an enticing line but definitely not Mod. When I set off up it I was pretty sure it wasn't the correct line simply from a) the amount of loose rock and b) that there was no polish at all. I backed off after about 20'.

The correct line is much further down the corrie (further than feels correct) and is obvious when you turn and look over your left shoulder at it. The '03 Skye Scrambles guidebook description says "Descend into Lota Corrie by a faint path in the scree until almost level with the lowest rocks of the south face". I don't recall much of a path but I have double underlined "lowest" and put NB in the margin!
craigloon 15 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Sounds like you did the right thing backing off. As I recall the route is more like a series of chimneys, definitely a scramble, and starts around the corner right (or should say left) at the bottom.
Tim Chappell 15 Jun 2009
In reply to Solaris:

Yes, 20' is about as far as I got. I looked up and thought "This is way too steep and scary a solo to be a Mod", and I looked down and thought "I don't like the landing at all, even from here, and I'm not fully established on the route yet".

Was there tat on the corner in question when you were there? I should think people have been using it as a compromise between walking back down the Lota Corrie Route, and abbing down Naismith's.
Tim Chappell 15 Jun 2009
In reply to craigloon:

How does it compare for difficulty with the (very easy) chimney to the R of the bad step between Sgumain and Alasdair? IIRC that's a Mod!
 Jamie B 15 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell:

You go a long way down into Lota Corrie to pick up the proper route; this is the source of much upset to weary ridge traversers!

You may in fact have saved yourself a greater epic; getting onto Am Bhasteir from the Tooth is no pushover; I wouldnt fancy soloing it.
 MG 15 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell: I am another who has failed to find it (twice) and have attempted the groove/chimney you mention before backing off. Interesting to learn that the correct route is further down.
 Bob M 15 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell: I did the Lota Corrie route a couple of weeks ago. As others have said, you need to go descend a long way from the Bealach nan Lice. It's an easy angled gully with slabs on its left, very obvious when you get there, and certainly no more than Mod.

The continuation to Am Bastier is much harder with a couple of steep moves of V Diff climbing at the start.
 Solaris 15 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell:
> Was there tat on the corner in question when you were there?

I *think* so. I suspect this would have been one of the things that persuaded me to have a look at the line.

Tim Chappell 15 Jun 2009
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:

You may in fact have saved yourself a greater epic; getting onto Am Bhasteir from the Tooth is no pushover; I wouldnt fancy soloing it.

Thanks, Jamie.... I wasn't going in that direction, as it happened-- I was heading S along the ridge. I did do some exploring of the alleged 'route' from Am Basteir to the Tooth, though, and backed off from that as well, because it looked to me like I wasn't on route and was down-climbing myself into trouble. (I didn't have a rope so I couldn't rap, and anyway, I think rapping might have made things worse, not better.)

With all this exploring I didn't get very far along the ridge-- I descended into Lota Corrie from the gap just before An Caisteal. NOTE TO READER: I do NOT recommend this descent <eek>


 Gerald Davison 15 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell:

Yep, I can confirm what has been said here - go what feels like a ridiculously long way down the screes on the north side, right to the foot of Am Bhasteir, before you climb a very short (10 foot) wall to get established into left trending ledges and grooves. These then feel more like a scramble than a climb. Eventually after several rope lengths you get into the gap between the tooth and Am Bhasteir.

That steep groove you mention is a trap for the unwary - the tat is testament to many others who have climbed into there thinking this is the Mod route. I almost fell into it myself!


 MG 15 Jun 2009
In reply to Gerald Davison:

> That steep groove you mention is a trap for the unwary - the tat is testament to many others who have climbed into there thinking this is the Mod route. I almost fell into it myself!

Given that this error seems rather common it would be nice if next guide did its job and in fact guided people away from the trap!
Tim Chappell 15 Jun 2009
In reply to MG:


Agreed, especially since it's a potentially dangerous trap. There is some really exposed scrambling in Skye, so when you start up that false lead, you're not ENTIRELY sure what to think. "Am I off route? Or is this the right way, and it's just me being chicken?" I backed off without trouble, but one of these days someone will come a cropper there.
 Gerald Davison 15 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell:
ARRRGGHHH! I said North face instead of South face in my post - sorry! Just to be clear - scramble down to the lowest point on the SOUTH side of Am Bhasteir. I recall (it's a while ago) it being as much as 150 metres in distance - feels a long way!

Anyway, couldn't agree with you more chaps! Definitely needs explaining in more detail where the start is.

What I didn't say is it took me an hour to be happy I had definitely found it.

I scrambled over to the SW first (just South East of Pt 930) to get a look at the south side of Am Bhasteir to "suss" it out.
 Chris Sansum 15 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell:

We made exactly the same mistake when we did the ridge. It is easy to assume when you see the abseil tat in the gully that that is the route. After we made the mistake we managed to escape by traversing along a ledge onto Naismith's route (still a harder grade than Lota Corrie though!). All this wasted quite a lot of time though, and we ended up by having an extra unplanned bivvy on top of Am Bhasteir (we didn't really want to climb Sgurr nan Gillean in the dark!).
 Mike Lates 15 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell: Andy N has put me onto the thread. Not sure what's been said but don't think Norman & John will mind me giving away details of their route before the book's out-
"Lota Corrie Route (Collies Route) 200m Moderate ** (1887)
This is an interesting and easy way of climbing the Tooth saving valuable time for parties running out of daylight near the end of a Ridge Traverse. It is as enclosed as Naismith's is exposed.
Descend for 300m from Bealach na Lice into Lota Corrie staying close beneath the vertical south-west wall of Am Basteir. A prominent overhang holds a comfortable walled bivvy site some 50m before the route finally starts to re-ascend.
A short grey wall gives the first possible breach onto the wall to gain an easy angled open gully that leads back towards the Tooth. This is followed by either an upper or lower line with loose debris requiring delicacy at times. It leads to a grassy ledge just above the Bhasteir Nick, with the slabby back of the Tooth just beyond."
 Andy Nisbet 16 Jun 2009
In reply to mike lates:

You could always say, "don't be tempted to climb a groove with tat; the tat indicates it is more than Moderate". But I'm only saying that because I don't remember the bivvy site, but then I do now know where the route goes and would be more interested in its start
Tim Chappell 16 Jun 2009
In reply to mike lates:


Thanks Mike (and Andy). But just a minute. You descend 300 metres from Bealach na Lice? And the route's 200 metres long, and presumably not vertical? So how does it get you back to the top of the Tooth??

No one's said 300 metres' descent to find the start of the route. They've said 300 feet, i.e. 100 metres. Can you confirm that you really do mean 300 metres?
In reply to Tim Chappell:

Presumably Mike means 300m diagonal distance, not vertical height.
 Solaris 16 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell and Mike Lates:
It's a good number of years since I did the route, but I'd say the new description is a great improvement on the old one. 300m of diagonal (200m vertical) descent sounds OK to me -- it's a long way down and certainly more than 100m! Whatever the precise distance descended, the description will prevent optimists taking the tat adorned line.
 Mike Lates 16 Jun 2009
In reply to Andy Nisbet: The tat is in the start of Naismith's Direct which, as one of the posters will agree, is not an easy alternative, still including the crux of Naismiths original. 300m distance is an estimate but equivlant to descending around the Slig side of Basteir virtually so must be there abouts.
pre-edited version used to catch out the plagierisers!
Tim Chappell 16 Jun 2009
In reply to mike lates:
> (In reply to Andy Nisbet) The tat is in the start of Naismith's Direct

Crumbs. Just as well I did back off.

Here's the closest I've found to a helpful picture for the Lota Corrie Route. It's not very close...

http://bigwalksclub.co.uk/bigwalksclub/images/Cuillin%20traverse/Cuillin%20...
 Solaris 16 Jun 2009
In reply to mike lates:
I'm not sure the tat to which the OP and I were referring can be that in ND because it's quite a bit further down and the climb is quite a bit harder than Diff. (If it had been Diff, I wouldn't have backed off, even with scramblers in tow -- they'd done the rest of the ridge.) Also, I'm not sure that the line would have come out on Naismith's.


To all:
The best photo I've found is (of course!) that in Gordon's Skye book on p. 69. I *think* the false line the OP and I (and others) have been discussing is pretty clear, though perhaps slightly concealed, about 50m (vertical) beneath the col. It goes more or less direct to the summit of the Tooth.

Lota Corrie route is also visible much further down as a series of discontinuous ramps.
 Mike Lates 16 Jun 2009
 Simon Caldwell 16 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Not terribly clear but this is what it looks like from near the top looking down
http://climbing.me.uk/Skye/Friday/slides/IMG_9659.html
 Solaris 16 Jun 2009
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> (In reply to mike lates)
>
> Is this where you mean?:
>
> http://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/images/LotaCorrieRoute.jpg

Thanks for posting this.

The line which confused the OP, me and others is one of the two corners higher up the corrie -- probably the higher one that comes down almost directly from the Tooth and has a snowy ledge on its left. I don't think either of them can be Naismith's Direct.

 Mike Lates 16 Jun 2009
In reply to Solaris: The Direct breaks L along the obvious snowy ramp after 20m or so in that fault. I've a graphic description of an ascent, by geoffrey winthrop-young if memory serves me right, which I'll try to post when I find time.(the fault remains a challenge to be completed or reported at least; giving away my own new routes- should be shot).
 Gerald Davison 16 Jun 2009
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Great picture Gordon - graphically shows just how far down you have to go before climbing that short wall and then traversing back along the grooves and ledges to the notch between the main summit and the tooth.
In reply to Gerald Davison:
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth)
> Great picture Gordon - graphically shows just how far down you have to go before climbing that short wall and then traversing back along the grooves and ledges to the notch between the main summit and the tooth.

Well. it's the shot Mike posted, not mine; and just me interpreting what he said - it may not be exactly correct. But that's roughly where I've always understood it to be. I've only done Naismith's (led by Mike, in fact).
 Solaris 16 Jun 2009
In reply to mike lates:

Cheers Mike. I'm pretty sure that what I started up was harder than Diff, so maybe it was the lower corner. To add to what I nearly said in my earlier post: that's two lines to go at! (I'm too far away to have a reasonable chance of grabbing them, especially given the publicity they've had on here!)

Can you tell me which book the ?GWY description is in? I'd like to read it.

Tim Chappell 17 Jun 2009
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:



Aha, that's the shot we need. Thanks, Gordon. What I was pegging away at was the corner directly above the bottom end of the red curl on that photo. I can well see that this might lead into Naismith's, if you shuffle L along one of the snowy ledges.
In reply to Tim Chappell: Pegging? Get away with you.
Tim Chappell 17 Jun 2009
In reply to dan bailey:


Doh, I knew there was something off about that word-choice. I think it was probably word association from .jpg that led me there...

I only carry the little black pointy beggars in winter, though.
 Dee 17 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell: Scene of my Skye epic:- climbed that first pitch to where the traverse goes left, belayed above chockstone and tat, persuaded my mate to climb directly up - just to the left of the cleft - when the rock he's climbing (think size of large upright fridge) splits and parts company with rest of Cuillin. One chunk (half-a-fridge) flies past me on left, me - anchored in middle of path, other (half-a-fridge) hammers into thigh and rope pile. Mate, now on ledge, hurting from fall. Rockfall into Lota Coire, etc. Sort out self. Check partner. Check rope for damage. Set up more tat, abseil off. Spoke to Pete Thomas afterwards and re-checked guidebook; yep, too high for Lota Coire route!
 Mike Lates 18 Jun 2009
In reply to Tim Chappell: Description of Naismiths direct once you've traversed out of your tat gully by WH Murray not Winthrop-Young as I had thought.
4. 25m ‘The feature of the route is a ‘stomach traverse’ of sixty feet, where a long, narrow ledge slants up and leftwards across the south face. There is a big drop below and the rock immediately above the ledge projects like an eave, forcing one to lie on one’s stomach and wriggle. The ledge thins out and, fortunately, so does the overhang, so that one first may kneel and then stand, being now on vertical rock with good holds.’ W. H. Murray, second ascent.
 Solaris 18 Jun 2009
In reply to mike lates:
Thanks for posting that, Mike. Can't wait to get on it

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...