NEWS: Rheged - National Mountaineering Exhibition no more

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 DNS 28 Dec 2007
Like a fool I've waited for years to go to the National Mountaineering Exhibition at Rheged; every time I've been in the area the opportunity to climb or walk up something has been too good to miss - until today when it was pouring down and I thought it was time to exercise the 'rainy day' option. I get there to find the exhibition closed on Christmas Eve through lack of continuing funding. Bugger.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
 sihills 28 Dec 2007
In reply to DNS: its not that great anyway.
 beermonkey 28 Dec 2007
In reply to DNS:

I thnk there's going to be a mountain rescue exhibition there at some point in the not too distant future, charting its roots up to the present day, should be good.
 Mark Warwicker 29 Dec 2007
In reply to sihills: Never, it was ace! I went twice. The entrance room with the panoramic photo, (taken from balloon above Everest), wrapped around the walls with the recording of the wind and Buddhist bells playing in the background was inspiring on its own. Never mind the history contained in the exhibition itself. If I'd known it was coming to and end I would have made another visit specially.
 AlisonS 29 Dec 2007
In reply to DNS:

I thought it was a superb exhibition. This country is woefully devoid of tributes to our rich mountaineering history and heritage. Rheged went some way to addressing that, and it did it well. It was put together by people who cared; people many of us know even if only by repute, and they should be congratulated for putting so much time and effort into it. The custodian, Robin, should be given special mention and it must be a very sad time for him.
I'm not surprised it closed. It was in the wrong place. To get to it meant driving a long way out, battling the traffic and then running the gauntlet of a tourist centre that represented everything I try to escape from in the mountains. Like the Zermatt museum it should have been located where mountaineers and hillwalkers congregate naturally; somewhere to wander into after a half-day on the hill or on a rest day or when it's raining.
I went to it twice; and I'm glad I went. This is a sad time.
In reply to DNS: I managed to go visit and do Sharp edge the same day, saw the Everest IMAX 96 film there too

Its a quality venue with quality content and it would be a shame if because of lack of interest it became something dumbed down taht theres plenty of already in the country
 victorclimber 29 Dec 2007
In reply to DNS: same for me rain and more rain ,and then no exhibits to see,why would you go there anywhere ?
Jonno 29 Dec 2007
In reply to DNS:

I've always meant to go but have been put off by the cost of getting in ?
If they slashed admission to a couple of quid I'm sure they would be more successful and that would get the punters in.
 AlisonS 30 Dec 2007
In reply to Jonno:
>
> I've always meant to go but have been put off by the cost of getting in ?
> If they slashed admission to a couple of quid I'm sure they would be more successful and that would get the punters in.

I agree with that. It should have been £2.50 for non BMC members and £2.00 for members. Any more than that is too much. There also should have been more kids things in there. Simple things like where they can put their hand in a box and feel a rock-type, and a phone where you dial a number from one to ten and hear a recording of mountaineers voice, like Don Whillans, Dougal Haston etc. Sorry this is a well-practiced rant of mine - I really think mountaineering history in under represented in the UK.
 Andy Say 02 Jan 2008
In reply to DNS: I wonder where the exhibits go? I'd assume that they were owned by the Mountain Heritage Trust as it was BMC cash that initially set the whole thing up - but maybe I'm wrong.
In reply to AlisonS:
> (In reply to DNS)
>
> The custodian, Robin, should be given special mention and it must be a very sad time for him.
>

To be honest I thought it was crap. It was a really good idea, but in the wrong location, run by the wrong people, in the wrong buliding, run by the money grabbers that run Rheged.

My personal exspirence of Robin Ashcroft was that he was a bit of twit, with a highly annoying plumby voice. It entertained me when he wrote a crap book and was suprised when said, crap book got a crap review.

Just my two pence. I won't miss it.
 Bulls Crack 02 Jan 2008
In reply to DNS:

Oh well - I was going to try and sell them Don Whillans's peg from Slanting Slab - that would have seen them off quicker.
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: Tom Ripley, I am sure Robin will be happy to respond to your comments as soon as he gets back from hospital – he is there being treated after trying to get some poor soul out of a river after a canoeing accident. Until he does you will just have to do with my comments and I think you are spouting ill-informed BS.
 joe king 02 Jan 2008
I think the space should be used to create an exhibition of great climbing moments in the life of Tom Ripley.
 Bulls Crack 02 Jan 2008
In reply to AlisonS:

£2.50..£2.00??

Blimey. What sort of exhibitions do you usually go to?
Anonymous 02 Jan 2008
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

You really are very, very young aren't you?

I suggest you step away from your keyboard and start meeting girls.
 Ridge 03 Jan 2008
In reply to DNS:

It was on BBC Radio Cumbria this morning. Visitor numbers dwindled, there was no money to re-vamp the exhibits to attract more visitors so it closed. Apparently there was lottery funding available, but it was conditional on free entry to all, something which would have been impossible as Westmorland Services who own the building have to make a profit.
The exhibition will be replaced by something involving Wainright, Wordsworth, paintings, poetry and 'Cumbrian life', whatever that may be (Who's betting Beatrix Potter will be in there too?). It'll probably be sucessfull, as it won't be reliant on visitors (climbers) who are too stingy to part with a couple of quid for the entry fee.

In reply to Tom Ripley:

Just when I think you're beginning to grow up you prove me wrong. Well done.
Removed User 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Jeremy Ashcroft:
> I think you are spouting ill-informed BS.

Nae argument here and nae change from him.....

I went when it just opened and I thought it was great. Just handily placed for a wee break when visiting mates in Yorkshire though I agree somewhere like Keswick or Ambleside would be better. It was made all the better with having people like George Gand doing those videos with John Peel explaining climbing to the uninitiated. Sorry that it's been left to wither on the vine. Maybe the BMC and MCoS as "custodians" of the sport should be a bit more proactive about keeping the history alive and using something like this to help tempt future generations to the hills.
Nose 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
> (In reply to AlisonS)
> [...]
>
>
> My personal exspirence of Robin Ashcroft was that he was a bit of twit, with a highly annoying plumby voice.

That's ironic, because when I put a voice to your postings, you sound like you have some kind of barely pubescent squeak.
 Chris F 03 Jan 2008
In reply to DNS: I went once when it first opened, and thought it was OK, but not brilliant. Always had it on the backburner as a convenient stop on the way up the M6, but never got round to going again.
 Rubbishy 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


You must have to look over your shoulder in every climbers' pub you go in.



Tip: It makes your nose bleed when you make things personal.
 Ridge 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Removed User:
> (In reply to Removed UserJeremy Ashcroft)
> [...]
> I went when it just opened and I thought it was great. Just handily placed for a wee break when visiting mates in Yorkshire though I agree somewhere like Keswick or Ambleside would be better.

I agree on that, but where? Problem with Keswick and Rambleside is the lack of parking. At least with Rheged there's parking, and it's just off the A66. Parking at either Ambleside or Keswick would be as much again as the entrance fee.

> It was made all the better with having people like George Gand doing those videos with John Peel explaining climbing to the uninitiated. Sorry that it's been left to wither on the vine. Maybe the BMC and MCoS as "custodians" of the sport should be a bit more proactive about keeping the history alive and using something like this to help tempt future generations to the hills.

Maybe, but keeping an exhibition open costs money, and if the sentiments expressed on here are anything to go by, even those interested in climbing begrudge paying the entrance fee, so why would Joe Public bother?
 Andy Say 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Removed User:
Well as far as I can recall the BMC were proactive enough to actually set the whole thing up in the first place; it was originally 'their' exhibition which was hosted at Rheged. Eventually the 'ownership' was transferred; but i still wonder about the ownership of the exhibits and where they will finish up.
 Michael Ryan 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Andy Say:
> (In reply to Just a bhoy)
> Well as far as I can recall the BMC were proactive enough to actually set the whole thing up in the first place; it was originally 'their' exhibition which was hosted at Rheged. Eventually the 'ownership' was transferred; but i still wonder about the ownership of the exhibits and where they will finish up.

Perhaps at a new BMC/Alpine Club HQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

................featuring a permanent National Mountaineering Exhibition ; o )

Removed User 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Ridge:

Aye... I'm constantly dismayed by the tightness of the people on here. It's like everything should be free or dirt cheap because they climb; the irony is that people involved in outdoor pursuits are generally affluent (empirical obsevation before someone wants a white paper from the Ministry Of Tight Arsed Bstarts).
 Ridge 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Removed User:
> (In reply to Removed UserRidge)
>
> Aye... I'm constantly dismayed by the tightness of the people on here. It's like everything should be free or dirt cheap because they climb; the irony is that people involved in outdoor pursuits are generally affluent (empirical obsevation before someone wants a white paper from the Ministry Of Tight Arsed Bstarts).

Agreed. Quite happy to pay for a Rab photon hoody, Camalots, Hilleberg tent, but begrudge buying a cup of tea at the cafe at Shepherds crag and instead brew up on their MSR and titanium pan set while parked up next to it...
Robin Ashcroft 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Dear Tom,

I'm not going to bother responding to your personal jibes - I don't need to. Your eloquence says far more about you, and I suspect your personal predjudices, than it does about me.

You do however, attempt to criticise in a particularly petty way various individuals and organisations connected with the NME - you have been totally unfair in doing this. As anyone who has actual experience of running a museum or exhibition will tell you they are commercially very challenging and that all are heavily reliant on external funding to survive. This applies to every institution of this type from the British Museum down

It is particularly offensive, and totally inaccurate, for you to describe my former employers - Rheged, or more accurately Westmorland Ltd - as "money grabbers". They are a commercial organisation, and as such have to live in the real world, but their approach to the exhibition was anything, but money grabbing. Quite the opposite in fact and they proved to be highly altruistic in their support of the NME during it complex history. I'll be amazed if you talk to anyone connected with NME, be that in the BMC or MHT, who has enough direct experience of the events connected with the exhibition to have a balanced opinion, who will take a contrary view to this.

The NME was only got off the ground and maintained for over 6 years through the very hard work and great commitment of a number of people, who were mostly volunteers. You may feel they were the "wrong people", but they acted rather than talked.

The success of the NME is perhaps best gauged by the comments left, by thousands of visitors, in the exhibition's Visitor's Book. I read it at least once a week and I can recall only three negative comments during either the 5 years I was connected with the exhibition, or during the preceding 18 months of its life. We must have done something right.

Yours Sincerely,

Robin Ashcroft




 Andy Say 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
Somewhere beginning Shhhhhhhh?
Robin Ashcroft 03 Jan 2008
In reply to AlisonS:

Hi Alison,

Thanks.

Aye

Robin
Ian Black 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Robin Ashcroft: Very well said old chap! An absolute credit to Sandhurst
 Chris_Mellor 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Robin Ashcroft: Hmm. But Robin, the exhibition closed because not enough people went. Of those that did go some wrote positive comments in the visitors' book; however, I don't think you're likely to get a representative view of what people thought about the Rheged mountaineering exhibition from the visitors' book.

Like Tom Ripley, I'm afraid, I thought it was a poor exhibition in a poor location. It was neither good enough for knowledgable climbers nor impressive enough for non-climbers; that was my view. I never went again and never recommended it to others.

I don't doubt that much hard work was contributed by everyone involved, including the commercial backers, and regret that the exhibition has closed; it did a job which nothing else was doing.

Unfortunately 'the success of the NME is perhaps best gauged by the' fact that it has closed.

Sorry.

Chris.
Robin Ashcroft 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Ridge:

The vast majority of artifacts on display within the NME were on loan. They are currently being returned to their original owners, through the Mountain Heritage Trust, and this is being done in a totally professional way. There were some items - a minority - that were in the possession of the MHT and they will return to their rapidly developing archive.

It was always my one dissapointment during my time at the NME, that more mountaineers didn't visit - the bulk were very much "Joe Public" and "Armchair Mountaineers". The irony was that those climbers who did visit - as far as I could tell from personal comment - thought the visit was worthwhile.
rich 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Chris_Mellor: interesting - i'm wondering whether there's a big museum anywhere that such an exhibition could be part of but nothing's leaping to mind - is there a sport museum anywhere? (not looking to start the 'is it a sport' thing by the way)

but then i'm vaguely aware that there are numerous small museums that seem to bimble along quite happily - we went to the witchcraft museum in boscastle recently - low-budget, small, packed with stuff and has been going for 40-odd years - maybe a more tourist-friendly subject of course

i never went to the nme but from reading about it on here i'm getting the idea that maybe it tried to be too big and experience-y? i don't know though obviously
 sutty 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Robin Ashcroft:

I remember the history of the setting up of Rheged, and the exhibition was a condition of the planning I think. What they originally wanted was a shopping centre with profitable offshoots to pacify the planners. If they could have got the plans through without the exhibition there they would have done so.
I never saw the exhibition, on the three times I called it was closed, must have been the wrong days each time.

The site was the wrong place for it, most people would drive past on the way to or from Keswick. Penrith is not a climbers, or tourist town, even the youth hostel closed there. Now if they had placed it at Brockhole or somewhere similar they may have got a lot more visitors. Has this been investigated?

http://www.visitcumbria.com/amb/brockh.htm

BTW, ignore Tom, we mostly do.

 Ridge 03 Jan 2008
In reply to sutty:
> (In reply to Robin Ashcroft)
>
>
> The site was the wrong place for it, most people would drive past on the way to or from Keswick. Penrith is not a climbers, or tourist town, even the youth hostel closed there. Now if they had placed it at Brockhole or somewhere similar they may have got a lot more visitors. Has this been investigated?
>
> http://www.visitcumbria.com/amb/brockh.htm

Brockhole isn't all that easy to get to, and parking and entrance fees are expensive, although a scaled down exhibition could be held there. A least the current visitors could get to see it. Your average UKCer wouldn't dream of paying the entrance fee though.

As locations go Reghed isn't that bad, it's got ample parking and it's easily accessed from M6/A66. (Plus a lot of people from West Cumbria will go there just for the cheap(er) petrol..). In that respect the venue better than something like The National Museum of Film and Photography for example.

Sad to say the interest just isn't there. Climbers won't go unless it's next door to Needlesports and costs 50p (25p to BMC members) to get in; The general public aren't that interested unless Peter Rabbit's modelling the Goretex windsuits.
Colin Barwell 03 Jan 2008
In reply to DNS: Firstly a Happy New Year to you all! Can't remember what I paid to get in so couldn't have been that extortionate. The things that I do remember were meeting George Band and being handed Mallory's ice axe by him. Also buying a first edition of one of the Everest books for my collection. Do agree that the location was far from ideal, wasn't the easiest of places to find even if you really wanted to. Anyway congratulations Robin for giving it your best no one should knock you for that. Hopefully there will be something to take it's place in the future. Colin.
 Lemony 03 Jan 2008
In reply to DNS: I have to echo the location comments, was always tempted to go but not tempted enough to make a special trip. Were it in Keswick (or even actually in Penrith) I'd have visited long ago.
In reply to DNS:

Very good exhibition (especially the frozen toes).

Can't really fault the location - always happy to do the extra 2 miles to go there instead of the usual crap service stations on the M6.
 GrahamD 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Lemony:

Have to say I agree. Its too far away from anywhere I'd actually be staying in the Lakes to make a special detour. I've always intended to go sometime but simply never got round to it.

It was too expensive for a casual 'drop by' whilst ploughing up the M6 as well.

Location, location, location.
 Andy Say 03 Jan 2008
In reply to GrahamD:
So you've actually driven past it (how far from the M6?) although it was in the wrong place?

Money money money; rather than location, location, location?
 Ridge 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Andy Say:
> (In reply to GrahamD)
> So you've actually driven past it (how far from the M6?) although it was in the wrong place?
>
> Money money money; rather than location, location, location?

I must admit I'm having a problem with this 'wrong location, hard to find, no where near where it should be' complaint.

It's next to the bloody M6, which the vast majority of visitors will use to access the lakes. Maybe it should be in a more convenient location like...er...a field in Wasdale?

Long and short of it is that people couldn't be bothered going.
 Veronica 03 Jan 2008
In reply to DNS:

Definitely wrong location. wet days are more likely to be spent in Keswick or Llanberis. I would have visited the exhibition in either of the places before heading off to some rain shadow crags for the afternoon. But would never have made a special trip of the M6, too busy going somewhere I'm afraid.
 GrahamD 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Andy Say:

Definately location. It may be near the M6 but that part of the M6 is not near anywhere else. It is the sort of place I would visit on a wet day once I was in the Lakes but it really isn't that accessible from the main centres in the Lakes and there is nothing else there once you get there.

Local climbing walls, pubs, cafes and shops always won out, I'm afraid.
 GrahamD 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Ridge:


> Long and short of it is that people couldn't be bothered going.

And the reason people couldn't be bothered going was .... location. It may be near the M6 but people want to do their visits once they are in the Lakes - not add half a day to an already 4 or 5 hour journey.
 Chris the Tall 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to Andy Say)
> [...]
>
> Perhaps at a new BMC/Alpine Club HQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> ................featuring a permanent National Mountaineering Exhibition ; o )

Went to the exhibition once, thought it quite an interesting way to spend a wet afternoon if you were passing and had a couple of hours free....

The problem is though, are climbers really the sort of people who go to museums ? I might wander round an exhibition of photos for an hour, but to be honest old gear that's been used on landmark expeditions is still just old gear.

One of the driving factors behind the BMC/Alpine Club idea was to find a home for the AC library, and one of the common reactions has been "not another Rheged". So even if the library/and or the entire collection of the MHT was located in Sheffield, Manchester or anywhere, would sufficient climbers be interested enough to visit? And would any of them pay ?
 Michael Ryan 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC)
> [...]
>

> The problem is though, are climbers really the sort of people who go to museums ?

Some are, some aren't.


> I might wander round an exhibition of photos for an hour, but to be honest old gear that's been used on landmark expeditions is still just old gear.

Not me. I love to view old climbing artifacts and reading about the history behind them. Maybe it is an age thing. I'd pay £10 no problem.

Mick

 Michael Ryan 03 Jan 2008
 Ridge 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to GrahamD)
> [...]
>
> I could make it work!

Tom Ripley wouldn't like it though. And he'd take the mick out of your accent...

 hutchm 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Ridge:

I don't know, perhaps he could be tempted along to give some masterclasses or lectures or summat.
 Michael Ryan 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Ridge:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC)
> [...]
>
> Tom Ripley wouldn't like it though.

He's fired!

I’ve sent an email to Robin, unreservedly apologising for my crass, foolish and unfounded comments. They were meant to be half in jest, but went horribly wrong. I was obviously having a very bad day.

This experience has taught me how dangerous a place UKC can be. I’ve decided to stop posting on here for the mean time, before I make an even great fool of myself, and focus on my climbing, something which is infinitely more rewarding.

Again unreserved apologises to Robin and safe climbing one and all.
 Doug 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: Is that really Tom ? or an impersonator ?

If its really you Tom, don't dissapear, just think a little before you post
Ian Black 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Doug:
> (In reply to Tom Ripley) Is that really Tom ? or an impersonator ?
>
> If its really you Tom, don't dissapear, just think a little before you post

Its a case of arso collapso
 Michael Ryan 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Ian Black:
> (In reply to Doug)
> [...]
>
> Its a case of arso collapso

It is called apologising.

 Ridge 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to Ian Black)
> [...]
>
> It is called apologising.

And I bet it took a lot of doing too. Fair play to young Mr Ripley.
Robin Ashcroft 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Accepted
 Solaris 03 Jan 2008
In reply to DNS:

This is a real shame and so commiserations with, but many thanks to, all those who made the exhibition happen. We really enjoyed it (though the touristy stuff was awful) the day we went and hope it will find a new home.

When I started reading this thread, my view was that the location was OK -- we broke a journey back from Scotland at Rheged. However, weighing the arguments, I now think that it needs to be in a town/locale that attracts climbers in any case. That way it would make a good wet-day option. Imagine it being accommodated in the same building as a good cafe (like Pete's Eats) for example. IMO, it should only be linked with any projected BMC/AC centre if that is at (or very near) a major climbing venue.

PS, Well done Tom Ripley.
Ian Black 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to Ian Black)
> [...]
>
> It is called apologising.

Aye, but could easily be avoided if said brain was engaged before posting. Personal attacks should be discouraged more on here. People are too quick to bump their gums without knowing the full facts. Its very easy to attack from the comfort of ones computer. Sometimes I think UKC are more concerned about political correctness than personal attacks on members. IMO.
 nikinko 03 Jan 2008
In reply to DNS:
> Like a fool I've waited for years to go to the National Mountaineering Exhibition at Rheged; every time I've been in the area the opportunity to climb or walk up something has been too good to miss

gutted! I've not been for the same reasons!
 Michael Ryan 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Ian Black:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC)
> [...]
>
> Personal attacks should be discouraged more on here.

There are discouraged and we are clamping down more and more especially in the RockTalk forum in the hope to increase the quality of information and debate.
 AlisonS 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
> I could make it work!
>
> Mick

We could make it work!

I've been ranting on about this for years. Ask anyone. When I am less sozzled maybe we should exchange ideas. Hic!
 Michael Ryan 03 Jan 2008
In reply to AlisonS:

Yes, 'we'.
 AlisonS 03 Jan 2008
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to AlisonS)
>
> Yes, 'we'.

I can be very regal at times.

But seriously, I do have a plan and I've been trying to get it off the ground. It might be a bit like yours. Just needs a bit of momentum.
 Chris_Mellor 04 Jan 2008
In reply to Ridge: Well, we must admit that Ripley's game.....
 Andy Say 04 Jan 2008
In reply to Chris_Mellor:
'Game'; as in 'hunted'?
Roy Haythornthwite 07 Jan 2008
In reply to DNS: Robin Ashcroft,
I agreee with your comments and hope it will open up again,national lottery perhaps, far more deserving than some of the obscure benifactors. With lessons learned more, hands on with a mini climbing wall for youngsters and participation exihibits, please dont chuck the towel in we really enjoyed it both times we went, and I'm a climber and we all know how tight fisted some climbers are so appeal more to the wider public,
Roy Haythornthwaite
cdb7452 08 Jan 2008
Has anyone thought of Plas y Brenin as a host for some of the exhibits? Lots of climbers visit on courses or for lectures and would value seeing the exhibits. Since the centre is open already, if room could be found, there would maybe no need for any charge. And of course it's in a location that plenty of people not on PyB courses could pop in after raiding the Joe Brown sale rail on a naff weather day. It's a shame that the exhibits all go back to their many owners not to be enjoyed by a wider audience.
 centurion05 29 Jan 2008
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I wundered y there was a drout in ur posts on thiss web site, and now i no.

gud luk in ur climbin

Centurion05

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