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A new section of footpath giving access to the North Face of Ben Nevis was officially opened on Monday by Cameron McNeish, Chairman of the Nevis Partnership. The new path starts from the old 'puggy line' and cuts up through a block of woodland recently purchased by the Forestry Commission Scotland. ...
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
This slashes the walk in to the CIC by about 40%
This slashes the walk in to the CIC by about 40%
In reply to blueshound:
of course it does as most climbers are put off by the walk.
Also, with a statistical head on, I would bet about max 5% of rescues are for climbers so for this "climbers path" to increase rescues by 40% would require a four fold or more increase in climbers, as there are far more walkers anyway.
oijit.
of course it does as most climbers are put off by the walk.
Also, with a statistical head on, I would bet about max 5% of rescues are for climbers so for this "climbers path" to increase rescues by 40% would require a four fold or more increase in climbers, as there are far more walkers anyway.
oijit.
In reply to blueshound:
only time will tell.
I prefer to be an optimist. I guess it won't have much affect on the total number of people winter climbing in Scotland, so in the grand scheme will not affect things much.
only time will tell.
I prefer to be an optimist. I guess it won't have much affect on the total number of people winter climbing in Scotland, so in the grand scheme will not affect things much.
In reply to blueshound:
The opening ceremony will be performed by the Chairman of The Nevis Partnership, broadcaster, writer and mountaineer, Cameron McNeish. Mr McNeish, said:
"The new path through Chapman's Wood will be welcomed by all those who visit the North Face of the Ben - the winter mountaineers, summer rock climbers and hillwalkers.
“We sometimes tend to forget that the walk in to a climb and the walk out are part and parcel of the mountain experience and trampling over badly eroded or muddy footpaths can take the edge off that experience.
“The new path is also a fine example of the co-operation that exists between the member organisations of the Nevis Partnership as we strive to maintain the environmental qualities that have made Ben Nevis and Glen Nevis such iconic landscapes."
> (In reply to smithaldo)
>
> Yeah, I agree, I'm just glad they got a real climber to open it.
>
> Yeah, I agree, I'm just glad they got a real climber to open it.
The opening ceremony will be performed by the Chairman of The Nevis Partnership, broadcaster, writer and mountaineer, Cameron McNeish. Mr McNeish, said:
"The new path through Chapman's Wood will be welcomed by all those who visit the North Face of the Ben - the winter mountaineers, summer rock climbers and hillwalkers.
“We sometimes tend to forget that the walk in to a climb and the walk out are part and parcel of the mountain experience and trampling over badly eroded or muddy footpaths can take the edge off that experience.
“The new path is also a fine example of the co-operation that exists between the member organisations of the Nevis Partnership as we strive to maintain the environmental qualities that have made Ben Nevis and Glen Nevis such iconic landscapes."
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC: Be good to see a map, took me ages to start using the 'new' car park, as I continued parking and walking through the golf course.
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
Please excuse my ignorance but where is the "old puggy line" .
Please excuse my ignorance but where is the "old puggy line" .
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC: Sounds grand that - not being overly familliar with the area would it be possible to get a link to a map up or a grid reference giving the start of the new path.
Thanks
Thanks
In reply to donie: That's why I think a map is needed.
In reply to IainRUK: I'd assume as this is a new path, there'd be signs of where to go, after all the car park is signpost from the road, failing that go wondering round the bike trails if you get lost, maps are highly overrated at the best of times
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
Unless there is a new car park it won't even take 40% off the time to the dam car park (which would be less than 20% off the time to the CIC). It will be a nice relief though, avoiding a pointless traverse and a bit of a steep boggy slog.
Unless there is a new car park it won't even take 40% off the time to the dam car park (which would be less than 20% off the time to the CIC). It will be a nice relief though, avoiding a pointless traverse and a bit of a steep boggy slog.
In reply to Offwidth:
Have you used the new path?
Have you used the new path?
In reply to Offwidth:
Agree. It's not so bad on the way up when frozen but that bog and then slight incline will not be missed by me at the end of a long day.
Cheers, Ali
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC)
>
> Unless there is a new car park it won't even take 40% off the time to the dam car park (which would be less than 20% off the time to the CIC). It will be a nice relief though, avoiding a pointless traverse and a bit of a steep boggy slog.
>
> Unless there is a new car park it won't even take 40% off the time to the dam car park (which would be less than 20% off the time to the CIC). It will be a nice relief though, avoiding a pointless traverse and a bit of a steep boggy slog.
Agree. It's not so bad on the way up when frozen but that bog and then slight incline will not be missed by me at the end of a long day.
Cheers, Ali
In reply to Alii: I'm not worried about the time/distance its coming back down through the bog in the woods at the end of a long day that I won't miss.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
If the car park is in the same place I dont think I need to. The dam to CIC takes longer than the approach to the dam so simple maths means your new path to the dam must be more than 80% faster. I think not.
If the car park is in the same place I dont think I need to. The dam to CIC takes longer than the approach to the dam so simple maths means your new path to the dam must be more than 80% faster. I think not.
In reply to IainRUK: yeah its just a piece of paper with a very not to scale set of stuff on, take a road for example if it was to the scale of the map it would be around 100 meters wide
If you're completely new to an area, or it is very complex terrain, they can be useful, but most of the times though, with a little experience, it is quite obvious don't you think?
you want to try navigating using some jungle maps out there, which have been roughly taken from an air photograph, and just show green and relief
If you're completely new to an area, or it is very complex terrain, they can be useful, but most of the times though, with a little experience, it is quite obvious don't you think?
you want to try navigating using some jungle maps out there, which have been roughly taken from an air photograph, and just show green and relief
In reply to Offwidth:
OK well it normally takes me 2 hours to the CIC how long does it normally take you?
When I used the new path about 8 weeks ago or something, it took 1 hr 15 mins! go figure!
It normally takes me around an hour to the first car park and an hour from there to the CIC this time it only took 20 mins to the first car park.
OK well it normally takes me 2 hours to the CIC how long does it normally take you?
When I used the new path about 8 weeks ago or something, it took 1 hr 15 mins! go figure!
It normally takes me around an hour to the first car park and an hour from there to the CIC this time it only took 20 mins to the first car park.
In reply to johnj:
I'd say they are a bit more than 'useful'?
> (In reply to IainRUK) yeah its just a piece of paper with a very not to scale set of stuff on, take a road for example if it was to the scale of the map it would be around 100 meters wide
>
> If you're completely new to an area, or it is very complex terrain, they can be useful, but most of the times though, with a little experience, it is quite obvious don't you think?
>
> you want to try navigating using some jungle maps out there, which have been roughly taken from an air photograph, and just show green and relief
>
> If you're completely new to an area, or it is very complex terrain, they can be useful, but most of the times though, with a little experience, it is quite obvious don't you think?
>
> you want to try navigating using some jungle maps out there, which have been roughly taken from an air photograph, and just show green and relief
I'd say they are a bit more than 'useful'?
In reply to IainRUK: each to there own i suppose
In reply to johnj:
Well I'd like a map
I haven't been up there yet, but plan to this winter. Anything that can take time off a walk-in, after a 7-8hr drive, will be much appreciated
Well I'd like a map
I haven't been up there yet, but plan to this winter. Anything that can take time off a walk-in, after a 7-8hr drive, will be much appreciated
In reply to donie:
The Puggy Line is the line of the narrow guage railway which ran from Fort William Pier to Loch Treig and Loch Laggan. The old path used to follow it for about 1km above the golf course.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC)
> Please excuse my ignorance but where is the "old puggy line" .
> Please excuse my ignorance but where is the "old puggy line" .
The Puggy Line is the line of the narrow guage railway which ran from Fort William Pier to Loch Treig and Loch Laggan. The old path used to follow it for about 1km above the golf course.
In reply to donie: As I understand it the "old puggy line" is the track that you follow from the North Face car park behind Torlundy, above the golf course to the start of the eroded, boggy pull uphill to the dam. I believe it's the western end of the dismantled tramway that is marked on the map as such to the east of the Aonach Mor gondola. It's the signposted route from the North Face car park (grid reference NN145763 for anyone who really doesn't know where it is by now). I can only imagine that the new path will be equally clearly signposted from said car park (it's pretty obvious where it will go if you look at the OS 1:25,000 map, and if you bear in mind that it passes close to the "spectacular viewing point" which I believe is the wee shoulder at around about NN146755).
I for one am pleased to hear that this project has been completed. I'm just a little surprised - it seems to have happened rather by stealth, since the last I heard it was still struggling for funding! Well done, whoever it was that got it to happen. I shall have to find an excuse to head up that way soon to check out this luxurious new magic carpet ride up to the dam. I will not miss the old route, or the alternative recommended to me in the past, the start of which seems to have been wiped out by new mountain bike trails, and which was a knee-deep hike across tussocky bog at the top anyway.
I for one am pleased to hear that this project has been completed. I'm just a little surprised - it seems to have happened rather by stealth, since the last I heard it was still struggling for funding! Well done, whoever it was that got it to happen. I shall have to find an excuse to head up that way soon to check out this luxurious new magic carpet ride up to the dam. I will not miss the old route, or the alternative recommended to me in the past, the start of which seems to have been wiped out by new mountain bike trails, and which was a knee-deep hike across tussocky bog at the top anyway.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
My mormal time as a middle aged unfit bloke with bunions and slightly dodgy knees is about 50 mins to the dam and just over an hour from there to the CIC. Lost count how many times Ive done it now. From memory my time was not far off unadjusted Naysmith. Here is some stuff we produced yeras ago for our club before the traverse path added 5 minutes and path imporvements took 5 minutes off the dam to CIC bit:
‘Golf course’ car park to Dam car park (1.5km, 250m ascent, good path): 1.5x12+25=43 minutes
Dam car park to CIC hut (3.5km with 400m ascent, good path): 3.5x12+ 40=82 minutes
My mormal time as a middle aged unfit bloke with bunions and slightly dodgy knees is about 50 mins to the dam and just over an hour from there to the CIC. Lost count how many times Ive done it now. From memory my time was not far off unadjusted Naysmith. Here is some stuff we produced yeras ago for our club before the traverse path added 5 minutes and path imporvements took 5 minutes off the dam to CIC bit:
‘Golf course’ car park to Dam car park (1.5km, 250m ascent, good path): 1.5x12+25=43 minutes
Dam car park to CIC hut (3.5km with 400m ascent, good path): 3.5x12+ 40=82 minutes
In reply to Martin W: I can only imagine that the new path will be equally clearly signposted from said car park (it's pretty obvious where it will go if you look at the OS
You say that, but look at the nant peris to pen y pass footpath, no signs at all, at the start and finish, and when I mentioned it on here most climbers knew nothing about it.
You say that, but look at the nant peris to pen y pass footpath, no signs at all, at the start and finish, and when I mentioned it on here most climbers knew nothing about it.
In reply to Caralynr: yes take a map for sure, but my point was the way will be pretty apparent, even in the dark after a long drive and little sleep
In reply to Donald M:
So it'll miss that slight incline along the old railway line what you don't notice on the way up, but takes you by surprise on the way back?
> (In reply to donie)
> [...]
>
> The Puggy Line is the line of the narrow guage railway which ran from Fort William Pier to Loch Treig and Loch Laggan. The old path used to follow it for about 1km above the golf course.
> [...]
>
> The Puggy Line is the line of the narrow guage railway which ran from Fort William Pier to Loch Treig and Loch Laggan. The old path used to follow it for about 1km above the golf course.
So it'll miss that slight incline along the old railway line what you don't notice on the way up, but takes you by surprise on the way back?
In reply to Offwidth:
well I'm giving you my actual times I have actually done recently on both paths. Not hypothetical ramblings.
well I'm giving you my actual times I have actually done recently on both paths. Not hypothetical ramblings.
In reply to Donald M: Damn, you beat me to it! Somewhat surprisingly, there's actually a Wikipedia page about the Lochaber Narrow Gauge railway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lochaber_narrow_gauge_railway and someone's even written a book about it: http://www.transportdiversions.com/publicationshow.asp?pubid=6248
In reply to Martin W:
Cheers for that martin.I'm (nearly) looking forward to trying it out.
Cheers for that martin.I'm (nearly) looking forward to trying it out.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
A race brewing? Can you knock off an hour to the CIC hut?
> (In reply to Offwidth)
> well I'm giving you my actual times I have actually done recently on both paths. Not hypothetical ramblings.
> well I'm giving you my actual times I have actually done recently on both paths. Not hypothetical ramblings.
A race brewing? Can you knock off an hour to the CIC hut?
In reply to Wibble Wibble:
maybe if I took up cross country running
I think maybe it was so much quicker for me as I hadn't lost so much energy in the steep bog. I must admit I never was that quick in the bog. probably a bit below average, although on the top path I do overtake a lot of people.
maybe if I took up cross country running
I think maybe it was so much quicker for me as I hadn't lost so much energy in the steep bog. I must admit I never was that quick in the bog. probably a bit below average, although on the top path I do overtake a lot of people.
In reply to Martin W:
Bloody internet, takes all the fun and effort out of research on a wet Wednesday (following a wet Monday and Tuesday)in The Fort
Bloody internet, takes all the fun and effort out of research on a wet Wednesday (following a wet Monday and Tuesday)in The Fort
In reply to Horse: I've even found a contemporary map which shows the line, thanks to the National Library of Scotland's online map archive: http://www.nls.uk/maps/early/bart_scotland_halfinch_list.html - select the 1934 Lochaber map and click to zoom on in the general area of Torlundy.
In reply to Wibble Wibble:
I dont race, bloddy silly racing as you sweat and then get cold and also waste energy both of which saps your reserves before a route. Tim Austin was the fastest I knew but he was the fittest man in Derbyshire.
I dont race, bloddy silly racing as you sweat and then get cold and also waste energy both of which saps your reserves before a route. Tim Austin was the fastest I knew but he was the fittest man in Derbyshire.
In reply to Martin W:
I can't get the link to work, I'll try again later.
About 7 years ago we had a very wet week in The Fort and one day took a wander round a couple of Munros in the Loch Treig area. On the way back we picked up the old railway. Having run out of other poor weather options we spent the rest of the week variously finding out what we could of the railway and walking/cycling the route with screaming hangovers; I am sure the map would have been useful.
Happy days
I can't get the link to work, I'll try again later.
About 7 years ago we had a very wet week in The Fort and one day took a wander round a couple of Munros in the Loch Treig area. On the way back we picked up the old railway. Having run out of other poor weather options we spent the rest of the week variously finding out what we could of the railway and walking/cycling the route with screaming hangovers; I am sure the map would have been useful.
Happy days
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
I think all the Ben climbs should be downgraded as a result. The old path definately added 1 grade!
I think all the Ben climbs should be downgraded as a result. The old path definately added 1 grade!
In reply to CJD:
The walk wasn't that bad anyway.
> (In reply to Caralynr)
>
> and time taken off a walk-in up boggy muddy slopes is even better!
>
> and time taken off a walk-in up boggy muddy slopes is even better!
The walk wasn't that bad anyway.
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
Agreed. Thats why we rated it a good path. Even if you did get a naughty satisfaction when the club took on a guide who had a key to get to the dam carpark.
Agreed. Thats why we rated it a good path. Even if you did get a naughty satisfaction when the club took on a guide who had a key to get to the dam carpark.
In reply to CurlyStevo: the new path is quicker but steep and brutal, it generally doesnt follow contours/zig zag, if follows existing firebreaks.
IainRUK, you cant miss the path, so dont fret about maps
IainRUK, you cant miss the path, so dont fret about maps
In reply to hwackerhage:
does that mean Tom Ripley will have to solo grade vI to achieve his climbing aims??
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC)
>
> I think all the Ben climbs should be downgraded as a result. The old path definately added 1 grade!
>
> I think all the Ben climbs should be downgraded as a result. The old path definately added 1 grade!
does that mean Tom Ripley will have to solo grade vI to achieve his climbing aims??
In reply to Erik B:
I agree that it is easy to find. I'm pretty sure I made use of this path on the way back down from the CIC recently. It was the most direct route down. It would make a great mountain bike descent apart from the drainage ditches and the obvious objections it would raise (erossion and wiping out walkers/climbers etc). However I don't fancy slogging up the direct route as it is one steep continuous ramp and I find it easier to walk up a more natural surface with the ground undultating under foot, even with the bogs.
I agree that it is easy to find. I'm pretty sure I made use of this path on the way back down from the CIC recently. It was the most direct route down. It would make a great mountain bike descent apart from the drainage ditches and the obvious objections it would raise (erossion and wiping out walkers/climbers etc). However I don't fancy slogging up the direct route as it is one steep continuous ramp and I find it easier to walk up a more natural surface with the ground undultating under foot, even with the bogs.
In reply to Martin W:
Yeah it's a good read too the book. I've always loved the bleakness of Loch Trèig "The Forsaken Loch".
Nothing like the sound of a 37 heading up to Coire Odhar if you know what I mean
Yeah it's a good read too the book. I've always loved the bleakness of Loch Trèig "The Forsaken Loch".
Nothing like the sound of a 37 heading up to Coire Odhar if you know what I mean
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
It tickles me somewhat that the path was opened on the same day as The Secret, which is clearly not a path.
It tickles me somewhat that the path was opened on the same day as The Secret, which is clearly not a path.
In reply to johnj: I imagine a jungle map isn't massively useful on Ben Nevis, no.
Anyone with half a clue knows what is to scale and what isn't, why the hell would you need to know the width of a road?
Anyone with half a clue knows what is to scale and what isn't, why the hell would you need to know the width of a road?
In reply to Erik B:
A case of locals goggles!
A map would be very useful if you are not familiar with the area.
> IainRUK, you cant miss the path, so dont fret about maps
A case of locals goggles!
A map would be very useful if you are not familiar with the area.
In reply to Beowulf:
Just a little banter with my cybermate Iain why you don't need a map to follow the yellow brick road.
To get to the other side perhaps
> (In reply to johnj)
Just a little banter with my cybermate Iain why you don't need a map to follow the yellow brick road.
> why the hell would you need to know the width of a road?
To get to the other side perhaps
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC: I am not a local, I live in Govan
there is one point you can get it wrong near the top, there is a fork where the main path heads slightly down and right towards the old path where it joins the track, it is easy to continue up the left fork which looks the right direction but it then back tracks away from the ben. A simple wee sign would suffice here.
at the car park there is a sign telling you where the path is, you cant go wrong unless you area half wit, in which case you shouldnt be going anywhere near the ben!
there is one point you can get it wrong near the top, there is a fork where the main path heads slightly down and right towards the old path where it joins the track, it is easy to continue up the left fork which looks the right direction but it then back tracks away from the ben. A simple wee sign would suffice here.
at the car park there is a sign telling you where the path is, you cant go wrong unless you area half wit, in which case you shouldnt be going anywhere near the ben!
In reply to Erik B:
Thanks for the clarification Erik...being a half wit I need all the help I can get.
Thanks for the clarification Erik...being a half wit I need all the help I can get.
In reply to sbamford:
Ditto. That was exactly our view when we took the 'path' in August. It wasn't signposted and remember Rich commenting about mountain bikes at the time.
Like Offwidth I'm afraid I don't know what CurlyStevo is talking about. Using the old path (dog-leg along the 'railway' and then the boggy path) it is 2.1km from the North Face car park (50m asl) to the upper car park (270m asl). Naismith's rule (3mph+2000'/hr) gives that as 48 minutes and 3.5mph+4000'/hr gives 33.5 minutes. My normal 'fast' time is 35 minutes.
The new path reduces the distance by 500-600 metres. That equates to a 'straight' time saving of between 5min20s & 7min30s. Adding in the effect of the improved path a time saving of 10 minutes seems a fair assessment for most people.
The equates to around a 10% reduction in the time to the CIC.
> I'm pretty sure I made use of this path on the way back down from the CIC recently. It was the most direct route down. It would make a great mountain bike descent apart from the drainage ditches and the obvious objections it would raise (erossion and wiping out walkers/climbers etc).
Ditto. That was exactly our view when we took the 'path' in August. It wasn't signposted and remember Rich commenting about mountain bikes at the time.
Like Offwidth I'm afraid I don't know what CurlyStevo is talking about. Using the old path (dog-leg along the 'railway' and then the boggy path) it is 2.1km from the North Face car park (50m asl) to the upper car park (270m asl). Naismith's rule (3mph+2000'/hr) gives that as 48 minutes and 3.5mph+4000'/hr gives 33.5 minutes. My normal 'fast' time is 35 minutes.
The new path reduces the distance by 500-600 metres. That equates to a 'straight' time saving of between 5min20s & 7min30s. Adding in the effect of the improved path a time saving of 10 minutes seems a fair assessment for most people.
The equates to around a 10% reduction in the time to the CIC.
In reply to Mark Stevenson: i also agree curlystevo is talking mince and I also agree it would make a first class mountain bike descent!
In reply to Erik B:
I got it wrong; and I am not a half-wit!
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC) I am not a local, I live in Govan
>
> you cant go wrong unless you area half wit, in which case you shouldnt be going anywhere near the ben!
>
> you cant go wrong unless you area half wit, in which case you shouldnt be going anywhere near the ben!
I got it wrong; and I am not a half-wit!
In reply to IainRUK: A map (not great, but it is a map) is now available on Alan Kimber's web site:
http://www.westcoast-mountainguides.co.uk/blog/uploaded_images/Chapmans-woo...
The path is the thin blue line that goes through the wooded area on the RHS of the map. Looks like it's been taken from a GPS track log. Note that the map also shows the location of the Torlundy car park.
According to this posting: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=278774&v=1#x4129239 there are two forks on the new path. At the first you go left, at the second you go right.
http://www.westcoast-mountainguides.co.uk/blog/uploaded_images/Chapmans-woo...
The path is the thin blue line that goes through the wooded area on the RHS of the map. Looks like it's been taken from a GPS track log. Note that the map also shows the location of the Torlundy car park.
According to this posting: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=278774&v=1#x4129239 there are two forks on the new path. At the first you go left, at the second you go right.
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