GEAR REVIEW: Tom Ripley On The Perfect Racking Biner/Krab

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 UKC Gear 21 Aug 2007
The unsung hero of any rack of climbing gear is the racking 'biner

Tom Ripley reckons he has found the perfect companion to your nuts.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=499
 abarro81 21 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear: i still think clean nose is best...
 SteveSBlake 21 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:

H'mm ovals have been recommended 'racking biners' for donkeys years, for all the reasons Tom has just discovered..........

Worth retelling though, if only to stop another question making its way onto the forums!

Regards,

Steve
 Skyfall 21 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:

sorry but they're crap
 Glyn Jones 21 Aug 2007
In reply to SteveSBlake:
> (In reply to UKC Gear)
>
> H'mm ovals have been recommended 'racking biners' for donkeys years, for all the reasons Tom has just discovered..........
>
> Worth retelling though, if only to stop another question making its way onto the forums!
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve


hehehe!

;~)
 thomasadixon 21 Aug 2007
In reply to abarro81:

Couldn't agree more.
 Simon 21 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:



Still use my Wild Country Ovals - they are still great for nuts - they don't all slide into one...

Tankeys were THE oval biner tho!!

;0)
In reply to UKC Gear:

I remember in the 1980s we were always looking for the perfect wire krab. No such official commercial product existed in those days and in the end most people just opted for a large krab. I actually managed to get hold of a large and purple krab which Andy Fanshawe had brought back from Russia and this became my wire krab for many years.

At the time though we always looked for a krab without a hook on the nose - what is now known as a 'clean-nose' krab. No such thing existed so a mate of mine took matters into his own hands and actually filed down the hook on his wire krabs so that the wires didn't snag when he was trying to release it. This worked great until he was particularly gripped one day after placing a wire in extremis and in his haste clipped the lead rope into the wire krab. Obviously the krab itself is severely weakened if you remove the hook so when he realised this he became even more scared. Luckily he didn't test the wire but it did point out a flaw in the system.

The point of telling this story is that, now that clean nose krabs exist, I would never consider any krab without a clean nose as suitable for racking wires. Not only does the hook get in the way when you are trying to remove the wire cluster from the placed wire, but it can also grab a lone wire stuck in the notch which then drops out when you open it again.


Alan
 Skyfall 21 Aug 2007
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

erm, or how about all the wires just sliiiiide right off

sorry but I have tried a few systems and my favourite is using a couple of really old small snapgates without clean noses and which just don't get in the way, do the job, and can be used in an emergency. Never lost a wire from them. I *like* the fact the nose holds the wires back and you can select which one you want to come off! Unlike my mates ovals which I regularly drop wires from simply because I can't tell which way up they open..
 Wee Davie 21 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:

I totally disagree with the oval theory. The only benefit is that the wires are less compacted. Is this a real benefit? Of course it is- if you love your oval biners!

If you love your clean nose krabs like the other 50% of climbers do then this review is worthless. I don't think this type of raving review has a place on this site to be honest, and I hope Tom Ripley- Kirkpatrick has the maturity to see the flaws in his argument.

Davie
 Wee Davie 21 Aug 2007
In reply:

I also recently bought a rack of BD micro stoppers and ditched the oval krab for a clean nose one, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Davie
OP UKC Gear 21 Aug 2007
In reply to Wee Davie:
> (In reply to UKC Gear)
>
> I don't think this type of raving review has a place on this site to be honest, and I hope Tom Ripley- Kirkpatrick has the maturity to see the flaws in his argument.


Also note that this thread is part of the review!!!!!!!!!!!!! as are your comments.
 Wee Davie 21 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:

O waht is the ponit?

Dvaei
 abarro81 21 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear: on another thought... i actually like the way smaller krabs flay the wires out rather than holding them all together as i find it helps me just pop the relevant end into my mouth (which is how i select wires when pumped) with max speed...
 blueshound 21 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:

I wonder how I have coped for the last 15 years without a "racking biner"..... WTF!?!
 RWH 21 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear: I have been meaning to get some of these biners for a while and his thread prompted me to order some. I like 'dirty noses' for reasons alread mentioned. And now can we all agree that these crabs are great as I don't think v12 will give me a refund.

Cheers

R
 sutty 21 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:

LOL, look at the picture of the plonker in the picture with all that crap on one krab trying to slot one in. FFS have about three on a krab, know roughly what you need to use and slot it in, the worst that will happen is you may drop three wires.

Perhaps climbers should go back to basics, only have a rack of nuts and slings, nothing else, learn to place them and progress to other stuff gradually, learning where it will fit, first time.
 Skyfall 21 Aug 2007
In reply to sutty:

> Perhaps climbers should go back to basics, only have a rack of nuts and slings, nothing else, learn to place them and progress to other stuff gradually, learning where it will fit, first time.

couldn't agree more.

after a long lay off and only a couple of bolt clipping trips before that, I was out recently on trad limestone (VS/HVS level) and, yes I could climb, but bugger me my placements were woeful. In a few pitches I hardly got one first time and on steep stuff that doesn't work does it.

Keep it simple etc.
 icnoble 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Alan James - UKC: I aggree with you about clean nose krabs. My wife has been trad climbing for 30 years, me, for 4 months. As all our gear was pretty old we replaced the lot. Clean nosed krabs were an obvious choice!
 sutty 22 Aug 2007
In reply to JonC:

Glad to hear you are nearly rock fit again, don't go and ruin things by crimping on small things again till you have rebuilt the tendons.
petejh 22 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear: Hang on... am I the only one who has the best of both worlds - a clean nosed oval 'biner?. Made by BD and bourght in the gear shop in the valley. Solid gate.
rich 22 Aug 2007
In reply to petejh: well i've learned something - i'd never seen of or heard of a clean nosed krab - a quick google suggests they're this sortof thing

http://www.needlesports.com/acatalog/wcoxygenkrabs.JPG

can anyone confirm thats' what you're all talking about?
 Alex1 22 Aug 2007
In reply to rich:

yes - they don't have a notch for the wire to clip into which nuts can get stuck in.
rich 22 Aug 2007
In reply to necromancer85: ta
 ray 22 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear: I bought a set of bd microstoppers on an oval krab and find it great. If you cannot tell which way up it is you could always try putting a wrap of tape at one end.
 magpie 22 Aug 2007
In reply to ray:
> (In reply to UKC Gear)If you cannot tell which way up it is you could always try putting a wrap of tape at one end.

Now there's an idea... I've got one oval krab which is relegated to holding my nut key and tiny cleaning hammer because I constantly open it the wrong way round and know I'd drop wires if I was using it to rack them.

 LakesWinter 22 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:

What is the point of a racking biner, I've only ever dropped 1 wire coz it hung up on the krab and it wasnt even mine (sorry simon!) I only dropped it coz I couldnt see the krab for various reasons.

There is too much gear gear gear in modern climbing and less and less emphasis on actually being able to climb!!
In reply to magpie: Paint works better than tape. It doesn't go sticky and gunky.
 GrahamD 22 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:

Apart from having a nose, its wrong in every other respect for me. Its oval - not so bad with wire gates but makes identifying the opening end much harder in extremis. Its wire gate - krabs with gates the same profile as the bar are much better for sliding wires around. Its expensive - the racking krab is one of the first to be sacrificed and so old retired extender krabs are much better.

Still, each to their own, I guess.
 DaveR 22 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:

Personally, I just use old biners I have no other use for. Recycling, it's the way forward.
In reply to GrahamD: Have you actually used an oval krab for this purpose? Or are just speculating? Whilst in extemis I have never had a problem indentifying the opening end.

Its exspensive? at £5.50 a pop it is one of the cheapest krabs on the market.
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

Pretty much agreed, I used to have some old krabs designed for aid climbing - hence no catch on the nose (Salewas maybe?). There were great for racking but woefully weak (400kns?), Despite that you always ended up using then in extremis!
After a harrowing topping out on T Rex above said krabs, Parkey persuaded me to do the honorable thing and give them a burial at sea!

Chris
 SCC 22 Aug 2007
In reply to MattG:
> (In reply to UKC Gear)
>
> What is the point of a racking biner.

To rack stuff on?

How do you carry your wires etc then?

Si
 IanJackson 22 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear: To be fair, i have never lost a Nut while selcecting and placing.

I selcect my nut size grab it with my teeth, so it is seperate from the rest of the nuts. Place it, give it a good sit, unclip it. Not once have i let any slide out?

But i have dropped nuts by not being clipped in properly into the crab or uncliping them selfs. Countless times have i dropped nuts at belays!

A bit of care saves all this drama, if you keep your cool, you will get that nut in faster and save yourself some money.
 GrahamD 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
> (In reply to GrahamD) Have you actually used an oval krab for this purpose? Or are just speculating? Whilst in extemis I have never had a problem indentifying the opening end.
>
> Its exspensive? at £5.50 a pop it is one of the cheapest krabs on the market.

Yes, I did try using an oval once for a season and a very expensive experiment it turned out to be.

You missed my point about the price (there are loads of cheaper ones about BTW) which was that its a good application for krabs which have been retired from normal use and which you don't mind sacrificing for retreats(not biners, please, unless you really are a 'merkin !).

 galpinos 22 Aug 2007
In reply to GrahamD:
unless you really are a merkin !).

I'm pretty sure he's not a merkin. He way wear one though.
 LakesWinter 22 Aug 2007
In reply to SCC: On a krab but it's not a special 'racking biner' sold on the premise that without this krab you'll fall off and die horribly!!!!!!
 Wilbur 22 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:

I use clean nose krabs for racking nuts (i don't like ovals or krabs with hooked noses). Petzl spirits are my weapon of choice and they are great.
Chris Tan Ver. L SP2 22 Aug 2007
In reply to rich:

The first clean nose krab I saw were the Stubai Easy Clips, circa mid-90s.

See http://www.xtreme-outdoors.com/acatalog/Store_Home_Stubai_Easy_Clip_Karabin...

And thought, that'll make clipping pro so much easier. I bought a few and really loved them. When they got retired, they became my racking krabs... And I love them even more.

My key to racking nuts:

1. Don't put too many on one krab... no more than 8 works for me.

2. Rack them on seperate krabs according to size, smaller than fingers, bigger than fingers but smaller than hands, bigger than hands.

3. When you approach a potential placement, you only need to stick your finger/hand/fist in it to decide which set of nuts to try.
In reply to Wilbur: The problem i find with clean nose 'biners is that you open the gate and all the wires slid off. Rather than just one and the rest catching on the hooked nose. Although this hasn't happened to me I have whitnessed it happen to a friend. Petzl Spitits are also stupidly exspensive.
 abarro81 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: i think its all just 'what fits' for each person. innit.
In reply to abarro81: yep.... I think it is also to an extent what you're used to.
 SCC 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Chris Tan Ver. L SP2:

Re points: 2 & 3.

I'd never thought of that! Really quite simple when you think about it - bit like me.

Cheers Chris, will be trying that out.

Si
In reply to SCC: surley you rack all your wires of the same size on the krab?

I have 3 krabs.

RPs to rock 2

Rock 3 to rock 6

Rock 7 to Rock 11
 SCC 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Yep, its the using the finger, hand etc to judge sizes initially that I hadn't thought of.

Not a problem when you get plenty of climbing done (judging placements I mean), but lots of DIY and the prospect of moving to another country have meant I've got almost sod all done this year - so it will be usefull when I start back.

Si
 Wilbur 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
> (In reply to Wilbur) The problem i find with clean nose 'biners is that you open the gate and all the wires slid off. Rather than just one and the rest catching on the hooked nose. Although this hasn't happened to me I have whitnessed it happen to a friend. Petzl Spitits are also stupidly exspensive.

that would only happen if you held the krab the wrong way up when opening it and that's pretty difficult to do with a non-oval biner like the spirit. Never happened to me. They're about £3 more than a normal decent racking krab - not much when you're happy extensively using them...

 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
> (In reply to Wilbur) The problem i find with clean nose 'biners is that you open the gate and all the wires slid off. Rather than just one and the rest catching on the hooked nose. Although this hasn't happened to me I have whitnessed it happen to a friend. Petzl Spitits are also stupidly exspensive.

But shirley you only open the gate once a wire has been placed, (I assume you are not taking them off the krab to place?) at which point all the other wires are safely tucked in the bottom of the curve.


Chris
Removed User 22 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:

Been doing that for years. Glad to see your spelling has improved Tom.
 IainWhitehouse 22 Aug 2007
In reply to various: Who on earth said this is sold as a 'racking biner'. BD market it as an oval with a wire gate. There isn't really much argument to be had with that.

To all those that can't ell one end from the other:
I don't understand this. The end that opens is the same one you opened one second before to take it off your harness. Most people hold the krab while grabbing the right nut with their teeth don't they? In which case you're still holding the krab at this point.
Now when you let go, the krab will still be as you left it won't it? Or do you all shake the nuts around in your teeth like a terrier with a rat or something? That smacks of incompetence to me.
In reply to Chris Craggs:have you spun the krab round on the placement, to remove it, and the wires have got tangled and forced the get open? With a notchless krab your wires generally plumet to their death, whilst with a notched krab they might not.


Why doesn't somebody write a notchless krab review to show the other voice of reason?
 IainWhitehouse 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Wilbur:
> (In reply to Tom Ripley)
> [...]
> that would only happen if you held the krab the wrong way up when opening it and that's pretty difficult to do with a non-oval biner like the spirit.

It's pretty darn difficult to do with any karabiner unless you have your eyes closed and have no feeling in your fingers. I'd be far more likely to drop the whole thing than not know where the gate is.
 kevin stephens 22 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:
Well I'll definetely be buying some. I have always used ovalcrabs for racking wires because for me it makes it far easier to organise and access the nut needed for a particulary placement, particuarly on very steep precarious or strenuous ground when carrying 4 sets of Rocks plus micros.

And I always know which way up they are, because I always put them on my harness the same way up !!!

Unforntunately my stock of oval crabs has been diminished over the years, and the ones I have left are heavish and probably weaker than the modern ones. so it will be great to get some replacements.
 JDDD 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

> Why doesn't somebody write a notchless krab review to show the other voice of reason?

Nice idea but not for me. I have two racking binas for small and large nuts. One has an notch and the other does not. I much prefer the notchless one. As much as anything it doesn't get stuck on my gear loop and wires come off it more easily once placed. I have never had any problems with droping wires or wires getting tangled up but I only have at most 7-8 wires on one bina. I do find however, that the hooked bina gets stuck on my gear loop and sometimes in those situations where you want it least, the wire gets snagged on the hook.

I wouldn't buy one of these though. Too expensive and you find so many binas out and about.
 Wilbur 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
> (In reply to SCC) surley you rack all your wires of the same size on the krab?
>
> I have 3 krabs.
>
> RPs to rock 2
>
> Rock 3 to rock 6
>
> Rock 7 to Rock 11

not heard of overlapping your sizes Tom?

i rack:

Rps to 4
4-7
7-10

 Michael Ryan 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Tom Ripley:

> Why doesn't somebody write a notchless krab review to show the other voice of reason?

See above. The advantages and disadvantages are outlined further up this thread.

It seems that some prefer krabs with a notch and others with a notchless gate.

It is down to personal preference.

There is no definitive answer.

Just like, this reviewer thinks the Edelrid Eddy is the bees knees.

"As you might have gathered by now, I rather like this device. It is a genuine improvement: not only safer, but more effective at paying out - in other words it's both smoother and more grabbing at the same time. It works with ropes from 9mm to 11mm, and if I didn't have this one, I'd certainly buy one."

http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=489

This one thinks it stinks.

"To sum up, the Eddy is okay. It will catch and lower any climber—even on, thank god, ropes down to 9 millimeters! However, compared to the no nonsense Grigri, I found the Eddy difficult to use."

http://www.rockandice.com/inthemag.php?id=15&type=fieldtested

Both reviewers are experienced climbers and climbing writers/journalists.
 sutty 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Chris Tan Ver. L SP2:

>3. When you approach a potential placement, you only need to stick your finger/hand/fist in it to decide which set of nuts to try.

Stop stealing my teaching methods, get a set of internal calipers scaled to the size of nuts so you can just insert them and know what will fit, if you can read the scale off.
Chris Tan Ver. L SP2 22 Aug 2007
In reply to sutty:

Sorry Sutts, but I've being doing it that way long before I met you, URC or UKC.

Re: if you can read the scale off.

IF is the operative word given the state of my vision.

ps. Know where to buy white krabs, nuts and cams?
 Erik B 22 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear: using a wiregate for a racking krab!!

SHEAR FOLLY!!!!!



 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:


Can you remove the Yanktastic 'biner' from the title and replace it with good old British 'krab' please?


Chris
 Erik B 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Tell Tom to just file off the notch on his racking krab
 Michael Ryan 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Chris Craggs:

No.
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> >
> It is down to personal preference.
>
> There is no definitive answer.
>
> Just like, this reviewer thinks the Edelrid Eddy is the bees knees.
>
> This one thinks it stinks.
>
> Both reviewers are experienced climbers and climbing writers/journalists.


Admirably illustrating why gear reviews are, by and large, a waste of time!

Chris

 Michael Ryan 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> [...]

> Admirably illustrating why gear reviews are, by and large, a waste of time!

Not at all Chris.

I have a feeling on the example I gave, as regards the the negative review, that it has something to do with advertising spend!

But.......gear reviews are opinions....the joy we have here (on UKC forums) is that we can get several opinions rather than just one. Then you can ask your mates....then you can read the manufacturers literature.

All added up, you get more than some magazine gear reviewer who is under pressure to say nice things so that the advertising revenue is increased.

Mick
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
>
> Not at all Chris.

>
> But.......gear reviews are opinions....the joy we have here (on UKC forums) is that we can get several opinions rather than just one. Then you can ask your mates....then you can read the manufacturers literature.
>
> All added up, you get more than some magazine gear reviewer who is under pressure to say nice things so that the advertising revenue is increased.
>
> Mick

hmmmmm - not totally convinced.

It is a bit like the never-ending "what's the best camera/boot/harness/ etc. etc. etc. query with all the immediate responses "you want one just like mine" - as I said, largely (though not completely) a waste of time.


Chris

 Michael Ryan 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)


> It is a bit like the never-ending "what's the best camera/boot/harness/ etc. etc. etc. query with all the immediate responses "you want one just like mine" - as I said, largely (though not completely) a waste of time.

Well that's just it. You will get, on these forums open to all, "get one like mine" but you will also get, "don't get that because.........."

Add that to posts like this, where a manufacturer actually responds

http://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?t=251774&v=1#3709521

and you can respond back....

Only on here Chris!
 sutty 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Yes, Simon does seem to reply when things are sticky, it would be nice if some of the shoe manufacturers did as well, such as the makers of 5.10 when people complain about them wearing too fast, or belay devices either run too fast or jam, or Petzl kept an eye on threads about the gubbins they sell the gullible public, well some is good, some could be good and some is not worth having.

See if that draws them in.
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:


I'm sure, I was only playing "Grumpy, the well-known Devil's Advocate"!



Chris
In reply to UKC Gear: i've always thought racking your wires is a bit like cooking, your way is always the best. particularly if you're a little over-opinionated, or perhaps slightly arrogant...
In reply to UKC Gear:

When Im abroad I always make a point of looking for the perfect oval gear crab, afew years ago I was using a Bonnati oval crab bought in Italy and even though it had a small recess on the gat e nose I never dropped a wire or had to many problems getting a wire of the crab.

Last year , again whilst in Italy I came across what seems to be (for me anyway) the best oval gear racking crab about. Oval, easy to handle and with a smooth gate:

Oval Alu #710 on the Kong webpage
http://www.kong.it/pr_conn.htm
 Michael Ryan 22 Aug 2007
In reply to sutty:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> Yes, Simon does seem to reply when things are sticky

Not just sticky, whatever that means, but when someone asks a question about DMM gear.

May I also refer you to this dialogue:

http://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?t=243677

We are getting more and more companies advertising on here. This method of advertising and the interaction it gives is relatively new to a lot of people. There is a bit of a learning curve, and it is my job (one of many at UKC) to guide people up it.

More and more companies are taking out Commercial Profiles so that they can answer questions about their gear.

It is profitable to be frank and honest and open about the products and services that a company offers.


Mick
 Michael Ryan 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
>
> I'm sure, I was only playing "Grumpy, the well-known Devil's Advocate"!

But the thing is Chris, you probably don't read gear reviews in the mags, but you read this one and have added to it by your wise replies.

Thank you.

Mick
Chris Tan Ver. L SP2 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Read your article and noted the features you would expect from a racking krab:

Stubai Easy Clip:

Cheap - tick £4.45
Wide base - tick
Can be handled with gloves - tick
Lightweight - tickish 46g

Clean nose - tick
Snagged nose - untick
( above depending on preference)
 Dux 22 Aug 2007
this http://www.theoutdoorshop.com/Outdoor/ProductDetails.aspx?language=en-GB&am... oval has a keylock sysem. Does this mean it has a clean nose or not?
 sutty 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

By sticky I meant people getting confused and at cross purposes, it was that sort of article that I was thinking about where DMM tried to give answers to lots of points that people ask about.

The positive feedback of manufacturers, and their comments on dealing with things is one of the best advertising methods they have. The person who bought the wrong sack for a trip then complained about it on here, and the maker replacing it even though it was not their fault to engender goodwill must have given them brownie points.
Snorkers McPorkers 22 Aug 2007
In reply to sutty:

Good luck with Petzl / Lyon. You'll get bog-all back!!
Lemony (at uni) 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Chris Tan Ver. L SP2: I've got a couple of those (or an almost identical model) on my rack that I found at a crag a couple of years ago. I fit 8 wires on them and so far haven't dropped a wire except when I had it in my teeth and a pigeon took off right by my ear making me cack myself.
 Wibble Wibble 22 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear:

It's news to me that anyone spends so much time and effort selecting a racking krab. I just thought eveyone used retired ones. Does it make that much difference?
 graeme jackson 22 Aug 2007
In reply to Wibble Wibble:
> (In reply to UKC Gear)
> Does it make that much difference?

I've just discovered (after 30 years as a climber and not worrying over much about such things) that it does. (apparently). It's good to have self proclaimed arrogant 17 year olds on the forum to keep us out of date has-beens in check.
 sutty 22 Aug 2007
In reply to graeme jackson:

You are NOT a hasbeen, a neverwasbeen perhaps, but if you will go owl fiddling what do you expect.

I wonder what sort of krab my wires are on, d, oval, pear shaped, pegrack?
In reply to sutty:

> but if you will go owl fiddling what do you expect.

A Tale of Two Jacksons, I think...
 graeme jackson 23 Aug 2007
In reply to sutty: Wrong jackson Sutty. Looks like the Alzheimers has kicked in
 jazzyjackson 23 Aug 2007
In reply to Wee Davie:
> (In reply to UKC Gear)
>
I don't think this type of raving review has a place on this site to be honest, and I hope Tom Ripley- Kirkpatrick has the maturity to see the flaws in his argument.
>
> Davie

I dont see why such reviews dont have a place. it was a concise overview of his experience with said hardware.
Thats what this sites for surely?

 graeme jackson 23 Aug 2007
In reply to jazzyjackson:
>
> Thats what this sites for surely?

Nope. This site's for slagging off Christians, 4x4 drivers, julia Bradbury and anything else that's popular.
 Michael Ryan 23 Aug 2007
In reply to graeme jackson:
> (In reply to jazzyjackson)
> [...]
>
> Nope. This site's for slagging off Christians, 4x4 drivers, julia Bradbury and anything else that's popular.

This site?

You are mixing up the all-encompassing ever-pulsating orb at the centre of the climbing universe, UKClimbing.com with a few threads, "Down The Pub."

Common mistake.

You need to hang here: http://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/i.php?f=11

 184Dave 27 Aug 2007
In reply to UKC Gear: Well i parted with a tenner to try them out and they do work well.

As to the unclipping & nut being dropped I always rack my krabs gate outwards so if it inverts the gate will be facing in, simply twist and haypersto!!!

Clean nose or not went for not as could only get the black diamond ones in the shop, but its what im used to so no problem.

Now climbing with happy nuts finar finar!!!

Cheers Dave B

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