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NEWS: Never Mind The Puffins - John Redhead's Poster

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 Michael Ryan 15 Jul 2007
Gogarth is one of the UK's finest sea cliffs. On the weekend of the 4/5th August it will have its first festival, The Glorious First.

John Redhead, the climber and artist, who has had an intimate relationship with Gogarth including the first ascent of The Bells, The Bells, the UK's first E7 back in 1981, has designed a poster for the Glorious First.

You can see the poster and read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
 TobyA 15 Jul 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: That Mr Redhead like's his willies doesn't he? I suppose its a subtle suggestion that Gogarth needs big balls?
 Steve Parker 15 Jul 2007
In reply to TobyA:

I wondered if maybe he was taking the mickey out of himself and his reputation a bit there.
Tony Strutt 15 Jul 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: what does the bit about a "cash for food program by the BMC" mean?
Jonno 15 Jul 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally, I think JR is a lot better climber than an artist.
 Doug 15 Jul 2007
In reply to Tony Strutt: BMC paying for the food ?
And why is a Gogarth festival in Llanberis ?
martin k 15 Jul 2007
In reply to Doug: been to the white eagle at rhoscolyn recently? they wouldn't welcome a bunch of climbers having a great time. and anyway, the organisers of the weekend live around llanberis so it seems reasonable enough.

(and yes the BMC are subsidising the beer & food...dontcha just love 'em!?)
OP Michael Ryan 15 Jul 2007
In reply to martin k:

The Snowdon Inn is a great venue too. Good camping, great beer and good food....and just outside Llanberis.

A great focal point.

Meet there, climb at Gogarth, then meet back there for much fun.
Simon Panton 15 Jul 2007
In reply to Doug: Everything that Martin and Mick said, but also it is only about half an hour's drive from Llanberis to Gogarth. Hardly an epic journey.
mydogsgotalimp 16 Jul 2007
In reply to Simon Panton: August 1st has always seen a parade of climbers to south stack to celebrate the lifting of the ban. I fear organising a festival and advertising it will only antagonise the twitchers to campaign for a full ban.

What is it with these climbing festivals anyway?

Some encourage you to spend your weekend in an inner city park ffs. Still I suppose its a way for a few to make some cash out of the gullible.

Glorious first, I'll be on scafell, cloggy, the ben, stanage, anywhere but gogarth. I like quiet days
martin k 16 Jul 2007
In reply to mydogsgotalimp: what is it with climbing festivals? hmmm...a sense of community, meeting new people, gaining a new persepctive, having a laugh with your mates (if you have any), showing that climbers are out there and proactive...that sort of thing.

noone is making money out of the glorious first, and to say that organising a festival may lead to a full ban is, as you know, nonsense. as for a quiet day on stanage...shurley shome mishtake?

 Ridge 16 Jul 2007
In reply to mydogsgotalimp:
> (In reply to Simon Panton) August 1st has always seen a parade of climbers to south stack to celebrate the lifting of the ban. I fear organising a festival and advertising it will only antagonise the twitchers to campaign for a full ban.

Must admit that 'Never mind the Puffins'as a title won't exactly win any friends with the RSPB or any other conservation group...
Yorkspud 16 Jul 2007
In reply to Ridge:

Tedioulsy provocative and doesn't even have any wit about it.
martin k 16 Jul 2007
In reply to Ridge/Yorkspud: what a cheery pair you two are! how about "please come to a weekend of climbing at gogarth wales where you can do some routes on a cliff" hmm, yes...much more eyecatching!
Clauso 16 Jul 2007
In reply to TobyA:
>
> That Mr Redhead like's his willies doesn't he? I suppose its a subtle suggestion that Gogarth needs big balls?

... Or maybe he's tipping a nod to the 'puff' in 'puffin'? Who knows, but I'm damn sure that I'm not about to climb anywhere that features sea birds with outsized tackle...
 Ridge 16 Jul 2007
In reply to martin k:
> (In reply to Ridge/Yorkspud) what a cheery pair you two are!

Like it or not you do have to take account of PR issues, especially when dealing with a powerful lobby like the RSPB. How about if you saw a "Wreck the Countryside" rally by quad bikers being advertised? Would that make you sympathetic to calls for better access to the countryside by motorsport enthusiasts?
It's just being provocative for no good reason.
 Ian McNeill 16 Jul 2007
In reply to Ridge:
> (In reply to martin k)
> [...]
>
> Like it or not you do have to take account of PR issues, especially when dealing with a powerful lobby like the RSPB.

There is no such thing as bad publicity except your own obituary.
Brendan Behan
Irish author & dramatist (1923 - 1964)


 Mick Ward 16 Jul 2007
In reply to Ian McNeill:

Hmm... I vaguely recall that Mr Behan was outraged by rumours about him being bisexual.

Mick
Yorkspud 16 Jul 2007
In reply to martin k:

Or perhaps come up with something interesting that isn't crass?
martin k 16 Jul 2007
In reply to Ridge: nowhere do i see "wreck the brids' nests!" or any such call to destruction...that must be in your fevered imagination. take a damp towel and lie down in a darkened room.

if you took account of the facts, you would know that the BMC (that's climbers, that is) has a fantastic relationship with the bird lobby, mainly due to the efforts of local activists. a bit like this festival, really.
martin k 16 Jul 2007
In reply to Yorkspud: well, you're the one complaining (and keeping this post alive so that loads more people see it), so perhaps you should be the one to come up with "something interesting that isn't crass". i await your efforts with deep interest.
 Ridge 16 Jul 2007
In reply to martin k:
> (In reply to Ridge) nowhere do i see "wreck the brids' nests!" or any such call to destruction...that must be in your fevered imagination. take a damp towel and lie down in a darkened room.

OK then, I'm not a twitcher or whatever the preferred term is, but I agree with bird restrictions and the like. To my mind, (and I'm not noted for overt PC-ness), the phrase 'Never Mind the Puffins' does seem to smack of contempt for nesting birds and their interests.

> if you took account of the facts, you would know that the BMC (that's climbers, that is) has a fantastic relationship with the bird lobby, mainly due to the efforts of local activists.

I do know that, thanks very much, so why potentially alienate them with this poster?
 Simon Caldwell 16 Jul 2007
In reply to martin k:
We're forever being told that RSPB types monitor these forums and even the mildest attempt at humour is jumped on as liable to lead to the permanent closure of Stanage and the like...
Yorkspud 16 Jul 2007
In reply to martin k:

I'm not complaining about it to anyone - just passing critical comment and am under no obligation to supply an alternative either!
 Dr Avid 17 Jul 2007
Got to love John Redhead.....

I think that anyone that can make so many people angry so easily must be brilliant
 andi turner 17 Jul 2007
In reply to mydogsgotalimp, ridge, yorkspud:

Take it you won't be there then?

No doubt saving it for the following weekend when the agreed restrictions will be even more lifted.... Out of interest under what grounding would these 'twitchers' campaign for a full ban?

I do hope there are no nesting birds on scafell, cloggy, the ben and stanage when you're up there on that weekend.

Surely these restrictions have been made in conjunction with the bird protection groups and have come to an agreement that from August 1st there would be little to no diruption to the birds. I also believe it is rather naive of you to assume that the other crags will be quiet as a result of the marauding climbers descending on South Stack instead.
Yorkspud 17 Jul 2007
In reply to andi turner:

Look, I merely thought the poster was a bit peurile! But, if you want to know why some twitchers might want go for a full ban given the opportunity its a Special Protection Area a Special Area of Conservation and a SSSI so UK and Eiropean designations for vegetation and seabird communities and there's an RSPB reserve there too. It would be quite easy should the 'authorities' be minded too, but happily I can't see it happening.
 AJM 17 Jul 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

With regards to the "they watch our forums" comment:

Has anyone ever tried watching bird-watcher forums? I assume they must exist.....

It would be very amusing if the "look what this climber said" piece of paper could be retaliated with one where someone is threatening to chop ropes or something similar. Take the wind out of their sails somewhat.

AJM
 callum 17 Jul 2007
In reply to AJM: There are some very good fora, if you're a birder that is. I am!
 callum 17 Jul 2007
In reply to Yorkspud: The 'authorities' would have to show that climbing was having a detrimental effect on the named reasons for the designation.
 John2 17 Jul 2007
In reply to callum: The RSPC forums recently banned posters from using the work 'cock' to describe a male bird - http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007250552,00.html . Tit is still allowed, though.
 callum 17 Jul 2007
In reply to John2: You mean the RSPB? I wonder if they still allow the old name for the alula?
 Doug 17 Jul 2007
In reply to John2: apparently was a software error (over the counter anti rude word software I suppose) & the work for a male bird is now allowed

Still amusing though
Yorkspud 17 Jul 2007
In reply to callum:
> (In reply to Yorkspud) The 'authorities' would have to show that climbing was having a detrimental effect on the named reasons for the designation.

Indeed - which is why its unlikely.
 callum 17 Jul 2007
In reply to Yorkspud: Thankfully!
OP Michael Ryan 17 Jul 2007
In reply to Yorkspud:

I don't subscribe to the view that conservationists, which include climbers, watch these forums and use posts here as evidence that climbers are environmental vandals.

Especially so-called twitchers. Let's face it, most outdoor people (even OHV'ers) are out there for similar reasons, to enjoy the outdoors and everything in it. It's in all our interests to look after the Outdoors, even if some outdoor people don't.

I say this with considerable experience having lived in the USA and was involved with land managers there and climbing forums.

John Horsecroft had one of his rants about this, citing UKClimbing.com but not by name (you whimp John). Sorry John, you are wide of the mark.

Mick
Yorkspud 17 Jul 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

The RSPB can be very single-minded - sometimes to the detriment of other environmental objectives - but more recently, they have a developed a greater awareness of their realtionship with the non-birdwatching public and are keen to broaden their appeal.
 callum 17 Jul 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: As a professional conservationist I know many, many others who are also climbers, so lots of shared interest as you say.

One thing though. The twitchers are not your problem. Calling them all twitchers is like labelling all of us as boulderers, its just a small, obsessive minority who go twitching (just like bouldering). The general term is birders. If climbers want to engage with others we should start by using terms they will understand. If a bunch of birders walked past the Plantation and said' ah yes, alpinists' we would be quick to laugh, works both ways though.
OP Michael Ryan 17 Jul 2007
In reply to callum:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)Calling them all twitchers is like labelling all of us as boulderers, its just a small, obsessive minority

Ssssshhhhhhh....you'll have UKBouldering.com crew onto us!

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