What skis?

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 luke glaister 05 Dec 2022

Hi all. 

Bit of a strange one in that I'm after buying some skis. Never owned any. Always hired. I have been about 10 times in 20 years.  I can ski well. Down reds and blacks. On and off piest. And a few small jumps. But have not an ounce of knowledge about skis. My preference is a ski that is good on piest but better off. As soon as the slopes open up I always get drawn in to the powder. But love some big wide carving turns when on. Any ideas or suggestions you might think will help. Thanks .

Luke. 

 kevin stephens 05 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

Anything around 100mm under foot, traditional camber with modest tip rocker and medium to long radius should keep you happy

7
 HeMa 05 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

To be honest, there really hasn’t been a bad ski in the last decade. Only bad for you

instead of shopping right now, I’d suggest going to a place that has some options to test skis (of the kind your After). And then test a bunch to get a feel on What your after. Make suretti try similar sized skis (both lenght and wideness, plus rocker/camber) with different sidecuts (turn radii). Some people like apples, others prefer oranges.

If I were to suggest something, look for something around 100mm in the waist, lenght about your own height (If between sizes, go up). Most likely tip rocker (or early rise), but some camber underfoot. Turn radii, What you say sort of states longer radius… but unless you’re a strong skier, then you also want a soft ski. This is where tge testing comes into picture. Soft skis bend and thus turn quicker when you want them to… but soft skis also feel restless at speed, especially in uneven snow. Soft tip is about the same, but with a more stout body/tail, will feel like less twitchy.  Flexy tip will deflect in hard to ski conditions, but will also float more easily in the soft.

for What it’s worth, I’M a middleaging dad mostly stuck to reds or the park with the kids. I used to ski, but nowadays that is just a pipedream. My daily driver is a few years old 175cm Twintip with a waist of 102mm, centermounted and turn radii of about 20m or so (I’m 173cm and about 70kg). Nice in groomers going forward or switch and ok in the trees with pow, feels nice on smaller jumps and rails. I do have mainly longer and fatter skis with at or tele-binders, but don’t really get to use ‘em that much these days. But I have noticed that such short skis centermounted are mat that good at big turns and high speeds. I guess the old saying is true… short skis suck and long skis truck… not really a problem going tail first, nor at the park… but when you want to open it up on a local tilted ice ring…

 LastBoyScout 05 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

Like you, I've always hired skis (have own boots), but picked up a pair of Salomon X-Storm locally on Facebook for £20, partly for a costume for a winter lock down bin day (never happened in the end) and partly for a laugh if we get snow here.

Pretty sure they're the ones I had as hire skis last time I went properly, but, in my limited experience, I doubt you'd go far wrong with anything of that ilk, as you seem to have described my tendencies, too.

I'll happily defer to more experienced folks, though.

 S Ramsay 06 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

Have you hired proper freeride skis before or just normal piste skis? As if not, you may not like the feel of something 100mm+ underfoot on piste, they're not necessarily bad, just quite different. The Volkl mantra is marketed as exactly what you want and always had a good reputation in the past but most brands will have something that roughly fits the bill. Remember for actual powder a softish ski is best whereas for hard carving a stiffer ski works best but you will want something in the middle but the heavier and more powerful you are, the stiffer a ski you will want. The blistergear website is probably the best source of ski reviews online. Most other other websites just describe everything as great. 

 spragglerocks 06 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

Like others say, probably around 100mm underfoot depending on your size weight (I have some Head Kore which are narrower but I'm 5.ft 6 and don't weigh that much).  

If you've only hired piste skis I suggest you try some freeride/all mountain skis on your next holiday - they ski really differently and even if the reviews say great on piste, they will feel different.  The stiffer options will suit you for on piste performance but a softer ski will likely be more forgiving off piste especially when conditions are sub-optimal (i.e. all the time).  

If you've been on a piste ski it probably had a short turn radius so bear that in mind before opting for something with a 20m+ radius as you'll find it hard to turn in comparison.

Good start for all mountain skis: 

https://www.skimag.com/gear/ski-reviews/all-mountain-skis/best-all-mountain...

The Enforcer which comes top always gets highly rated.  Unless you're a really good skier things like the Blizzard and Mantra might be a bit of a handful.  

 kevin stephens 06 Dec 2022
In reply to spragglerocks: From that list I think the Salomon QST 98 may be a particularly good match for Luke’s requirements. My other half has and loves them

 kevin stephens 06 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

What boots are you using Luke?

 spragglerocks 06 Dec 2022
In reply to kevin stephens:

also heard good things about the Salomon - quite easy going but good all rounder so can see why its a good ski for a first off piste orientated one.

 jamesg85 06 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

I think if I were to get some new skis it would be Faction. Feels like a good company to support and there are plenty to choose that won't be too stiff and will have enough underfoot for off piste too. 

2
 jamesg85 06 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

I was skiing on some Salomon 1080s in the early 2000s and they were 75 underfoot and were fine for off piste. 

I've never skiied on a true all mountain ski, sounds like a lot of fun off piste.

Post edited at 14:27
 jamesg85 06 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

I've just thought, might it be an idea to try skis in the resort before buying?

OP luke glaister 06 Dec 2022
In reply to All. 

Thanks very much for time u have taken.  Some serious food for thought here. And I  suspected not quite as simple as it sounds. So many different options. Like I have said I've always had hired gear. Head skis. No idea on the exact ski. And once upgraded to some rossignol ones that were brilliant carving on, but felt like the tips were sinking in the powder and turns through the trees were hard to make. A lad I met had some twin tips and he seamed to float over the powder. For reference I'm 6ft 2 and 80kgs. Regarding the boots I'm going to buy some too. I've a stag doo in feb to sauze d'oulx. And the first family holiday this year went so good the kids and wife are hooked, so I thought it's time to get kitted out. Regarding the comment about trying a few when in resort. This sounds perfect.  But how easy is it to do and who by. Hire companies or actual retailers? My friend had suggested getting some black diamond impulse 98 or 103s as he has extremely good discount from being a boulder wall owner. Anyway. Thanks for all your help and time. Will factor it all into the options.  Cheers. 

Luke. 

 kevin stephens 06 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

I won’t be the only one to advise that choosing boots is much more important than choosing skis. For most people having your own boots will benefit your skiing much more than make of skis. For this it’s really beneficial to go to a reputable boot fitter, and there aren’t that many in the UK. For you based in Hereford Lockwoods in Leamington Spa or Solutions 4 Feet in Bicester may be the nearest. You will probably need to make an appointment and take at least half a day. The adage is that the right boots will choose you rather than the other way round; you don’t choose boots on price. Some people buy boots in resort but you would loose half a day skiing and if not going near the start of the season stock may be limited. Also buying in the UK you will get free adjustments etc after your holiday. Enjoy

Post edited at 18:42
OP luke glaister 06 Dec 2022
In reply to kevin stephens:

Brilliant.  Will look them both up. Really excited about it all😁. Thanks for the advice and recommendations. 

 critter 06 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

My 2 pence worth would be considering getting boots that can be used with either PIN bindings or alpine bindings. That's if you think you have any inclination to go touring in the future!

Good ski equipment reviews in Backcountry Magazine (US) recent Gear Edition. They'll airmail from States

 ExiledScot 06 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

Find a good resort shop and see if they'll let you do an hour each on a few different demo skis. Skis aren't cheap, you'll either bond or hate them, but you could easily have them for a decade so better to test and not just rely on reviews. 

Some brands have demo days and a tent piste side. 

 LastBoyScout 06 Dec 2022
In reply to kevin stephens:

Once had a pair of Technica Diablo Flame as hire boots in resort and liked them so much I tried to buy them, but the shop weren't keen on selling them and couldn't find another pair in my size.

Then again, I had a pair of Salomon ones in another resort that crippled my feet - I think they were too narrow.

I'm happy enough with the Salomon ones I've got now, which are heat moulded to my feet, but I do have a suspicion they're 1/2 size too big. Next pair I get would probably be touring ones, anyway, for the versatility.

 HeMa 07 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

For the boots, as that need has also popped up.

As everyone else has said, they are much more important than the skis. So getting a good fit (and flex etc.) is important... have ill fitting and too stiff-boots, it'll be a nightmare to ski (too soft boots, less of a problem... but problem non the less, especially if you are going fast). And suggesting a specific model is idiotic, as every one has their own foot shape. So go see a good bootfitter/shop and buy from there (skis, those you can also get online... or from while on the trip).

On the boots, we have three basic types.... those for skiing on the slopes (normal "alpine sole", and no walkmode), great for their intented purpose, not as stellar for other uses. The other end of the spectrum is a full on alpine touring boot, they have soles that resemble hiking boots, way "open" the boot cuff for better articulation when walking or skinning... and most likely the option to use tech-bindings (or pin-bindings... have a look at Dynafit, but there are also many others). Again they are really good for their intended purpose, but they don't fit into regular alpine bindings (exceptions do exists)... and are not as precise when clicked on... Last category is a hybrid between these two. My gut feeling, that these hybrids are your best bet (actually for majority of people)... Normally they come with a hybrid soles, some not fully AT, nor as slick as the standard alpine sole. So nice to walk to the lift (or from the slopes), good enough some some off-piste action (most such boots also offer tech-binding compability) and doesn't sacrifice too much on the skiing performance. The problem is that there are two soles availalble.... So called Walk to Ride (WTR) and GripWalk (GW), and which ever the sole your boot has, you need to get the suitable bindings to match. Some are so called MMC (I think Salomon and Atomics plus Armada... they should cope with all boot sole norms, so alpine, WTR, GW and even AT), some are WTR (which support alpine and WTR, perhaps also GW... don't know, can't be arsed to check)... And lastly some are GW (alpine and GW soles... but not WTR or AT IIRC).

To confuse you even more, there are now AT boots...  that don't follw the AT norm, they are most likely these really light touring boots, and they only support tech-bindings (like Dalbello Quantums, Dynafit TLTs).

Which brings up the last piece of the puzzle... the bindings... And for that, it depends... on what you want to too in the future, what boots ya have and so on. My general advice would be to get either a GW or WTR "hybrid" shoe that fits ya. Then a matching alpine binding (e.g. Look P15 GW, Tyrolia Attack 14) that supports the sole you have.

Only if you foresee real touring (so skin up something, thus have skins, avy gear and knowledge), then I'd look into stuff like Salomon (or Atomic/Armada version) Shift... or possible the Marker Duke PT... but again, don't do this, unless it is fairly certain option and also you can do this enough... remember these kinds of skis you're after, are again heavy... so not optimal for touring / ski-mountaineering... might be wiser to rent those (just have boots that work).

 Xharlie 07 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

Where and when will you actually be skiing, though, because that will make a VERY big difference to what you should buy?

For example, if you are skiing here – in the Alps somewhere near the German border, north of Innsbruck, west-ish – you probably don't want very-wide, very-soft powder skis unless you are properly hard-core and intending to be chasing the 'pow' at every extreme chance.

The number of opportunities where such would really shine is basically non-existant. Those days happen but, nearly always, you'll find yourself on a harder surfaces or worse or older snow and, then, you will be having no fun at all with twitchy, bendy and bouncy skis that won't go fast without killing you.

90mm wide is considered wide enough, here, and you don't see many powder skis on tour – apart from beneath youths with tonnes of brand-new kit and milligrams of time-on-hill behind them.

Remember: even slightly more sensible skis still ski powder and they do a much better job of that than pure-blooded powder skis do of harder, wetter, older, breakier snow.

That said, I'd love some powder skis for the days that warrant them. I haven't skiied Alpine in years but I get out about a dozen touring days per season (that data only tracked since COVID) and maybe one of those days has enough powder that pure-blood powder skis would be convincingly "better".

And, sometimes, there's "Bruchharsch"

1
 Yanchik 07 Dec 2022
In reply to HeMa:

Off-topic and I'm not going to disagree with much of anything you say about winter sport, but...

... I smiled at the "no bad skis for the last decade" comment above. Then I thought of my touring skis. Which I bought sparkly new in 2018. And which folded and were replaced under guarantee for me in 2019 (the new version was just a little different and heavier....) And which folded again in 2021 and won't be being replaced by the mfctr despite multiple reports across the industry of problems with this particular ski. I've thrown a repair on the top sheet because 1) Why have an Engineering degree and not use it and 2) I'd like a few more years out of them and 3) I get to shame the well-known brand (French for nightingale) for a season or two in public. This thread isn't about me and my (bitter) ski experience but it illustrates a point...

... that actually beware, public service broadcast, there were a number of bad (touring) skis launched as some mainstream brands decided they wanted a bit of the touring market and didn't necessarily have the necessary knowhow. This is an opinion I've heard in a few places that are equipped to know. 

Back into my snow-hole. 

Y

OP luke glaister 07 Dec 2022
In reply to HeMa:

Jesus.  I've really taken for granted the turn up and hire option.  With all this amazing Info I'm going to go to a ski outlet and trust there knowledge. Will get the boots sorted for Xmas and then go get the skis and bindings.  Have looked at loads of info I'm swayed towards the atomic bent 100 or the saloman 98. But will see what they think. I've realised now the boots and the thing to get right.  

Reply to Xharlie. Most of the skiing I do will be the french alps or Italy. 

 HeMa 07 Dec 2022
In reply to Yanchik:

True, some skis suck. If you take ’em outside their design envelope. And to be honest, lightweight miserystixes.. Sorry touring skis are just that… you ski ’em hard, you will break them. Heck you can break even stuff like Kneisl Tankers, which were built like a tank (and weighed less, I might add).

And indeed I also have some horrific touring skis, that I hate to ski… they are actually waiting in the kitchen corner for me to slap on some binders to them. While they suck at skiing, they are light though.

so again, the skis ain’t bad… just bad for you and your use for them.

that being said, one should never say never… so I’m sure there have been some bad skis (that truly suck), but I’d wager that mostly it’s a case of wrong skier snd wrong ski. While slick are great at running laps on a NASCAR ring… they are less fun in WRC Sweden in Feb… That’s where studded tires are nice.

 freeheel47 09 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

Hi Luke. I'm not sure buying makes that much sense for you. It is also difficult to get an idea of your skills really. 10 weeks in 20 years is very little. In fact 20 trips in 20 years is very little. I'd suggest that you carry on renting. Unless you get a deal / sale offer then skis, bindings and boots will probably set you back at least £800. By far the best investment is tuition and as much skiing as you can afford. You might start with a couple of lessons in one of the fridges- to get someone to look at your overall ability / style and inevitable faults. I'm not being a snob, we all have them. Every day is a school day and there is always more to learn.

In reply to HeMa:

> I’m 173cm and about 70kg

Hah. There goes my image of yoy as He-Man...

 Hooo 10 Dec 2022
In reply to freeheel47:

+1 to this. 

It's definitely worth buying boots, you will get a far better fit than anything you can hire. But, as a one week a year skiier I wouldn't consider buying skis. It's actually cheaper to hire the latest top end skis in resort than to pay the excess baggage to ship your own pair out! Plus, I get to try the latest skis every year, and if I don't like them I try something else. I can swap skis to suit the conditions, and if the snow is really bad I can trash someone else's skis on the rocks. It's a no-brainer for me.

 Baz P 10 Dec 2022
In reply to Hooo:

Fully agree with this. I’ve owned different pairs of skis for 60 years but s few years ago decided that for the cost of servicing, £45 at that time, and the cost of carriage I could hire and try on several different skis during a holiday. Wouldn’t give my boots up though  

 kevin stephens 10 Dec 2022
In reply to luke glaister:

Buy the boots, spend your ski budget on 1:1 lessons or an off piste course

OP luke glaister 10 Dec 2022
In reply to kevin stephens:

Now the last few posters have said that it actually makes sense. Get my own boots and hire the latest skis. My need for shiny new gear always gets the better of me. Thanks for the wisdom guys. 

 HeMa 12 Dec 2022
In reply to Baz P:

>....cost of servicing, £45 at that time....

That's actually a lot of dough... instead spend the same amount and get kit for maintaining the skis yourself. It's not rocket science after all.

Unless you happen to be  powder hungry idiot that likes to ski on sharp rocks with a small dusting on top.... who needs full  core shots repaired every few weeks.

For maintaining the skis, you'll need the following:
- edge sharpener and file (those more into skiing on piste, might wish to get also a base guide). These are about 20 £
- waxing iron (15 £, but you moms old iron will do just fine)
- wax scraper 5 £ (a good thin metal screaper will also do just fine, and be cheaper than a dedicated one)
- edge deburring stone/rubber

and obviously some wax.... plus a steel wire brush, some scoff pads and an old woolen sock. Oh, and a rubber band... to keep the brakes up...

If you also need to repair gauges or even core shots (small ones)... get some slow-cure (24h) epoxy, ptex string, super glue and a soldering iron (or a new tip for your existing one... or simple use a lighter).

With these you can do all major repair and maintenance stuff, with the exception of base flattening and structure... The do at home tools are getting spendy for that, and not that often used... the steel wire brush works well enough... and when your base is really manky, you can always go for a stone/base grind every 3 to 5 years...

For what it is worth, I've been maintaining my own skis (usually about 3 to 5 pairs), plus my wifes and kids skis for the last 15 or so years... in fact, I can't remember when I've last taken my skis for servicing to a shop (perhaps when I did not  know how to install alpine binders, so like 18 years ago).

Servicing skis doesn't take too long, It's about 30 mins per pair for me. That includes sharpening the edges, flatten and structure the base, and base wax plus universal wax. That being said, I do often run these in batches as I generally need to go trough 5 to 8 pairs. Unless you ski a lot... you can actually do it once a year. Just when the seasons ends, do the edges, clean the manky bases (wax and scrape it off) and then leave a summer wax on the skis covering also the edges.... And in the fall, simply warm up the wax,  scrape excess off, brush and wipe (scoff pads and/or wool sock) and yer done. Those into absolute performance, will use a dedicated base wax and then temperature specific wax... but I just bought in bulk universal wax and use if for all to safe a bit of time.

Edges can be sharpened easily even on a trip if you hit a lot of rocks, or they become dull. Waxing might also be needed, if you ski a lot on slush (wet snow will eat away the wax quickly... and the skis won't glide well).


That being said, if you only ski one week a year.... then renting might well be the smart option... less hassle when flying, and indeed no worries on maintenance. The problem with renting is, that every time you are on different skis, which behave differently... so you never get accustomed to your skis. Which is something you should be, if your pushing your limits (on of off piste)...  not that a lot of people are doing that with skiing only a week (or two) a year. 


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