Touring, off pite and piste gear

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 Rob Exile Ward 31 Dec 2018

I'm a bit rusty about kit at the moment, so would like some advice.
Is it possible to get skis and bindings that can be used for ski touring AND off piste AND reasonably robust piste skiing, and if so what do people recommend? 

 Doug 31 Dec 2018
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

suspect it depends on your definition of "reasonably robust" but plenty of friends seem to use their touring skis for piste skiing (i use the same pair of telemark skis for piste a mountain touring)

 a crap climber 31 Dec 2018
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Yes, but as is often the way it'll be a comprise. 

In terms of binding the obvious choice would be frame bindings, e.g. Fritschi freeride, salomon guardian etc. They're robust enough to take a beating on lift served skiing, but with a significant weight penalty for touring.

Next option is the newer generation of 'freeride' pin bindings, e.g. Marker kingpin, fritschi tecton, dynafit beast etc. Lighter than frame bindings, but often significantly more expensive. They use pins on the front, with either pins on the rear or something more akin to a normal alpine rear binding. I haven't used any personally but I would imagine they ski more like traditional pin bindings, i.e. more chatter, fiddly to step in, possibly compromised release mechanism depending on the particular model.

Lastly the new salomon shift bindings may be worth a look. Best of both worlds but at a hefty price. New out this season so might be a gamble, though they get good reviews.

Ski wise it depends on what you mostly want to use them for. There are an almost endless range of options, and lots to choose from for 50/50 touring/in-bounds skis (seems to be a popular/growing market at the moment). Have a think about what you want it to do, e.g. do you want lots of float for powder days (go wider) , does it need to carve well on piste (stiffer, particularly laterally) , do you want to be able to charge through crud (heavier, stiffer longitudinally), do you want longer or shorter turn radius, something more playful (double rocker, more central mounting point) or more of a charger (rocker on the front, more rearward mounting) ? Its not easy without testing lots of skis. Do you have any that you know you like?

So perfectly possible, you just need to be clear on what your priorities are and where you're willing to compromise. And probably most importantly what your budget is.

Have a loom at the snowheads.com forums if you haven't already come across it. Not as great as UKC  ut lots of actuve and helpful users. 

Being UKC I'm sure someone will be along to tell me all this is wrong in a bit though... 

 kevin stephens 31 Dec 2018
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

There's lots of choice of skis around 100mm underfoot which are a good compromise between touring, off piste and piste.  Modern frame touring bindings and the many of latest pin bindings all work on piste with reliable release.  An important factor in versatility is choice of boots in terms of stiffness, walk ability, binding compatibility and of course will they, or can they be adapted to  fit you.

 Dark-Cloud 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

The answer to your question is YES and YES, but there is many options, maybe some personal kit lists might help, in a similar situation i went with Dynastar Cham 97 HM with Fritschi Vipec and Scarpa Maestrale RS, if i was buying again the only change i would be making is looking at the Salmon shift closely

Post edited at 12:18
In reply to Dark-Cloud:

That's great, exactly what I was hoping for. Anyone else like to contribute recommendations?

 George.D 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Your best bet IMO is a pair of 90-100 mm "all mountain" skis (e.g. Black Crows Orb Freebird /Camox Freebird) with a hybrid pin/alpine binding (e.g. Fritschi Tecton). This set-up gives you the best of both worlds: light enough for some decent vertical, even longer tours and some ski-mountaineering, but robust and stable enough to ski relatively hard on-piste (if looked after carefully).

There is a good article on the Alpine Guides company website about this and ski touring gear generally.

Good luck!

 JuneBob 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

My views are that I find shorter narrower skis with light bindings much easier and more fun for touring on most days (i.e. not powder) but still plenty of fun on those rare days when bigger skis would be worth it. The additional benefit being that going uphill on light gear means you have more energy to ski back down!
Unless you're a racer or mogul aficionado, those skis are plenty good enough on piste.

To give you an idea, I'm 183cm, 72kg, and I have the following sets:
Atomic Backland UL 85 (2017 model) waist 85mm, 169cm with Plum Race 170 Binding, I've got these for long tours and steep skiing. I used them on piste in the alps in all conditions in December and they are plenty good enough. I found I had to lift the toes a bit in deep powder.

Black Crows Camox Freebird (2013 model) 97mm, 177cm  skis with Dynafit TLT Speed Radical bindings - I use these for regular touring, particularly if there's powder. Also plenty good enough on piste.

I currently have the atomic backland carbon ski boots for the above setups, which are working very well for me.
 

 kevin stephens 02 Jan 2019
In reply to kevin stephens:

For skis I can highly recommend Whitedot R98. I really like the Dynafit Radical 2 bindings that I have on them but the new Solomon Shift bindings would be ideal for you. Boots are the most important part of the equation, if you don’t already have a suitable cross over pair then buy carefully from a reputable boot fitter 

Post edited at 15:07
 nuts and bolts 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Got to agree with most of the above replies. 

Would say that is very much down to budget and if that is a constraint then consider whether you will definitely be going ski touring because a purely alpine set up can be had for under £500 (eg second hand kit off eBay) whereas touring kit is nearer £1000 or more. 

If you want to tour (and I would very much recommend it as it rocks) and also use the same kit on piste then I would go for an all round ski with less than 100mm underfoot (ie ski waist width), a pin binding for weight saving (less weight is king when you have to drag it uphill for half the day) and a ski touring boot of your choice. Also skins, and I use telescopic poles which are useful when traversing.

My touring set up is Scott super guide 95's with fRitschi black pin bindings (have lateral toe release), Scarpa maestrale RS boots, Leki carbon telescopic poles and Black Diamond superlite skins (these I would not necessarily recommend as they don't have great grip on steeper ice).

Remember your budget needs to accommodate shovel, probe and transceiver.

 kathrync 03 Jan 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

As others have said, it is possible but it is a compromise. I bought a "do everything" set up a couple of years ago when I started touring as I wasn't sure if I would stick with it.  It has done me good service, but I think I will be looking at some touring specific gear in the next couple of years as my kit is heavy for longer journeys.  In terms of the skis themselves, any mid-fat (90-100 ish mm underfoot) ski should be usable for touring, just keep an eye on the weight.

My current set up is Blizzard Black Pearls (88mm underfoot "all mountain" ski - a little narrower works for me, I am light) with Marker F10 Tour bindings (frame) and Scarpa Diva boots.  If I were doing this now, I would probably have gone for one of the newer hybrid bindings like the Marker Kingpin (which I have used on rented skis and liked) which has a pin-style toe and an alpine-style heel on an all-round set up like this, but these weren't on the market at the time. Lighter boots would also have been good, but as I have tiny feet, I had limited choice there.

 HeMa 03 Jan 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Yes, as others have said. 

 

Look for skis with 95 to 110 mm waist. Not going to name models/brands as it’s more of a personal choice. How ever there are really not that many bad choices around any more (only some that don’t suit your style/preference).

 

For bindings. If you really wish to tour, tech/pin bindings is the only real option. Frame bindings are heavy and tour like shite. They were more robust some 8 years ago, but times have changed. Any tech binder with brakes should work, but the higher DIN models tend to be nicer to use (easier to get into, which is a bonus for lift served). If you’re really agressive skier (prolly not, as then you wouldn’t be asking), then the Solly/Atomic binder makes sense. Traditional alpine binder with pins for touring. This would be my pick, If I did’t already have a few pairs of Beasts waiting to be mounted. 

 Carless 03 Jan 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

As someone said upthread, have a good read of

https://www.alpine-guides.com/ski/insider-knowledge-ski/choosing-ski-setup-...

https://www.alpine-guides.com/ski/insider-knowledge-ski/ski-touring-equipme...

https://www.alpine-guides.com/ski/insider-knowledge-ski/

 

Loads of seemingly independent good advice

I used them some years ago as I was looking for the same as you. Went with their recommendations and have been happy since

 neuromancer 05 Jan 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Not to hijack, but the blue/white Cham 97's seem pretty freely available mega cheap around the place. Are these different / worse than the black / green ones?

If you could get a pair for like £100-150, would they be worth re-drilling and putting some touring bindings on as a starter setup?


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