UKH

Somebody got this through a FOI request. The shabby design and construction are extremely depressing. Was it built by the same firm who built Spaghetti Junction and that bridge in Genoa?

http://www.winterhighland.info/cairngorm/FunicularRailwayConditionReport201...

 

In reply to Rigid Raider:

Wow, i'm no structural engineer but that looks like some pretty severe design/build issues and negligent maintenance right there.

In reply to Rigid Raider:

A bit of quick googling indicates that it was built by Morrison Construction. I can't find anything that indicates what the intended lifespan of the infrastructure was though.

I'm not an engineer, so I'm wondering whether the problems identified back in 2016 were due to underestimating the harshness of the environment, inadequate maintenance, or other factors.

And if they waited a further two years before closing the railway then how much worse must it be now?

 

In reply to Andy Johnson:

I think there have been further reports in 2017 & 2018 but don't know if they've been made public although I suspect that WinterHighland &/or others will have tried using a FOI request

Morrison Construction whose chairman Fraser Morrison was also once the chairman of the  HIE board & which employed a former HIE chief executive... Surely no conflict of interests

 

In reply to Rigid Raider:

Blimey, that's not ageing very well is it.

jk

In reply to Rigid Raider:

Meanwhile, elsewhere in Britain, structures engineered by IK Brunel and Scots the Stevensons and Thomas Telford are still giving reliable service a couple of hundred years after construction.

In reply to Rigid Raider:

Aye but they took ages to build. Morrisons did it in the blink of an eye!

In reply to fmck:

More haste, less speed...

In reply to fmck:

....and the money disappeared just as quickly!

In reply to Rigid Raider:

Reinforced concrete structures often crack, spall etc. A friend who does bridge inspections says it's not uncommon to find holes you can fit your hand in, particularly late in the day when they open up due to the concrete expanding and contracting. Repairs aren't at all unusual and should have been budgeted for throughout the design life in advance. There's nothing in there demanding the lift to be closed until maintenance is carried out. However if they haven't budgeted for it then it won't happen and will get condemned. Seems to me like yet another government project approved to use up a grant under the pretext of ''if we don't use it we won't get it again" without any thought for the long term cost implications.

In reply to JohnBson:

"Seems to me like yet another government project approved to use up a grant under the pretext of ''if we don't use it we won't get it again" without any thought for the long term cost implications."

Not true in this case

In reply to Rigid Raider:

I'm surprised.

I was under the impression that the design was one that was common in a lot of European ski resorts. I wonder if they expect and plan for regular maintenance or is it just that Scottish concrete is minging?

In reply to Rigid Raider:

This report seems to be nearly 2 years old from its last revision. I imagine things must of got much worse since in order to close it. Cracking and spalling are easy fixes. The grouted base plates requiring replacement or repairs isn't too big a job either. If you look at the nearby ski lifts stantions  some base plates are grouted and some are missed. The stantions are still wedged to level with shims still awaiting grouting after all these years!

In reply to the thread:

From the report:

"There is concern that there is a project wide problem with the beams"

Now here's the Scottish Parliament Public Audit Committee back in December 2009 reviewing the railway:

"George Foulkes: Where was the major cost overrun?

Keith Bryers: The major difficulty probably related to the replacement of the proposed steel beams on the rail track with concrete beams. Morrisons made that proposal with its tender. Construction of the tunnel was another challenging engineering issue, given the weather conditions, the altitude and the various environmental considerations.

George Foulkes: Morrisons proposed changes to both those aspects of the original tender specification.

Keith Bryers: That is correct.

George Foulkes: Having won the contracts out of 14 companies in one case and four companies in the other, Morrisons persuaded you to change the specification.

Sandy Brady: That was done as part of a cost-saving exercise."

http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=2958&mod... page 1342

In reply to Rigid Raider:

Anyone familiar with concrete: am I reading it right that there are extra post-tensioned cables running through the lower flanges of blocks of beams, these appear to have failed or been underspecified resulting in excessive beam deflections under load, accelerated cracking and the reinforcement corrosion associated with it? Plus a load of more superficial/accessible snags and damage.

I suppose where it is extensively cracked concrete will be destroyed by freeze-thaw action in no time.

jk

In reply to Andy Johnson:

That's normal contractor behaviour, bid the job then go to VE, especially if they are close to the designer, then if the designer and/or consultant agree the changes then it goes through.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Not quite normal behaviour. More often it's....Contractors tender, all tenders exceed clients budget. Lowest Contractor, who has already spent tens of thousands in just bidding is told "sorry but we can't afford what you priced and unless you find some savings then nothing will be built...". Often not the contractors chosen path.

I am only a simple builder, but what did look odd in the report was the nature of the mixture of the use of insitu and precast concrete. That isn't super unusual, but the interfaces between the precast beams and the insitu infills looked really closely engineered, ie the bearings were very small indeed.

Given the date of construction and the fact that the failure was noted a few years back (which slightly resets the clock under the latent defects act), I wonder if the constructor and the designers are off the hook yet?

 

In reply to Rigid Raider:

Just gone into administration  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-46389488

 

In reply to Rigid Raider:

Whoops! Unsustainably loss-making after only 2 months of closure during their quietest period? Without knowing the outcome of the engineers’ report? What on Earth were their operating margins? What kind of business model were they using?

In reply to Rigid Raider:

1. Look around the world. This sort of thing is done with galvanised steel. That works in Scotland, Norway, France, Bulgaria, Canada, Switzerland, and so on.

2. This is not a country with extensive experience of construction at altitude in wild mountain conditions. Not in Scotland or any part of the UK. 

Just considering those two simple points should lead you to doubt the concrete route from the start. Let's not get bogged down in the detail. This is not complicated. The wrong material was used and it was constructed by people with no appropriate experience.

 

In reply to Rigid Raider:

When this opened, there was a ban on people walking from the top station, which in turn meant it was completely useless for climbers. 

So whilst I feel for the people who’s jobs are at risk, the fact the operators have gone bust sounds like good news; perhaps the new owners will be able to take a more climber-friendly approach?

In reply to charliesdad:

HIE have effectively always been the owners, with a succession of different operators. And the restrictions on the use of the funicular are part of a legal agreement & not likely to change.

Not convinced it would be that great for climbers anyway having used the old chairlift on a few occassions

In reply to Rigid Raideroes anybody know what the current state of play is regarding the rest of the ski area opening this winter ? 

Edit : the last post on their website was October 18th

In reply to mike123:

last press release from them said open as usual with the normal depending on snow caveats.  They've spend over £1 million on snow making kit for this year, and have offered free ski lessons / passes to local schools for this season to try and lure folk in despite the lack of funicular.  Doesn't seem to be much urgency from HIE to update websites etc though.  Guess the lack of snow and poor forecast isn't helping!

Cheers,

Stu

 

In reply to StuDoig:

WinterHighland gives this as a temporary facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/cairngormteam/

In reply to Rigid Raider:

A new update from Parks Watch Scotland:

http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2019/02/05/the-funicular-time-for-some-hone...

 

In reply to Andy Johnson:

I was pleased to read that Aviemore is busy, despite the problems.