UKH

Hi all

I'm tired of slipping around in road shoes on my offroad runs so it's time for a decent trail shoe.

I need something that can cope with mud, stony trails, under trees and a bit of road stuff as well as steep up and down. And accomodate a fairly wide forefoot. My thoughts so far as the Inov8 Roclite 275 (possibly a bit narrow?) or Hoka Speedgoat 4s. However, this only from online research as I can't get anywhere to try anything on.

Any insight would be appreciated!

I previously had the Roclites and indeed did find them a bit narrow, Have now got Saucony peregrine 10 which have a wider toe box and are more comfortable. I moved up 0.5 of shoe size with them too.

I'm a big fan of my Saucony Peregrine 10s too funnily enough. 

I also have a pair of Peregrine 10ST with the more aggressive sole not as nice on hard stony trails or tarmac but much better on the sloppy stuff.  Oddly, I found I need the 10ST half a size bigger than the 10.  I'm not sure if that's slightly inconsistent sizing or because the sole is a bit stiffer and the upper a bit more chunky making them feel like a tighter fit.

While you can't now get to a shop to try them on, perhaps you could ring a shop with proper knowledgeable people for a chat?  These guys for example:  https://www.accelerateuk.com
(My local shop - they're really excellent.)

How about the Hoka Torrents? Lower profile than traditional hoka's.

I have several pairs of previous Speedgoats (3 and 2) and absolutely love them for trail running.  Bear in mind that you're buying a highly cushioned shoe, which is great for my knees and fine on road.  The downside is less stable on uneven ground than the Inov8's that I've owned.  They're quite different beasts.

What road shoes do you use ? ( and why?)

Innov8 terraultras sound right up your street potentially. They are pretty wide and have a more aggressive tread pattern than the roclite's which I am struggling to get on with despite liking the softer feeling sole.

The roclite's do feel and look alot less cumbersome than terraultras but the tread let's them down for me personally. 

How long of a distance you are covering? What shoes are you wearing that work for you? Perhaps that would help to know what would work.

Here's my shoe round up:

• Inov-8 X-Talon are probably king in the grip, but they do not provide much cushioning. Inov-8 Mudclaws are quite similar, but I feel like they only perform well in muddy conditions, so not a good all round shoe. 
• Inov-8 Roclite G275/G290 are still wider than Speedgoat 3. My Roclite G290s survived roughly 200 miles over 11 runs in roughly two months... I got them replaced with G275s and will see how they fare. Up until they broke, they were my favourite hill shoe as they feel quite roomy (at least for me, I run in Sauconys on roads). I did Tranter's round in them and apart from a steep grassy descent, they did amazing.
• If you fancy wider Hokas, Mafate Speed/Evo Mafate might be a better choice - though a bit firmer than Speedgoats. Hoaks feel a bit chunky and I wouldn't suggest them as all rounders unless you need extra cushioning and/or planning to run long distances (20+ miles). My Evo Mafates did well on a 50 miler. I get blisters in Speedgoat 3 if I run more than 10-15 miles as they are too narrow for me. 
• Saucony Peregrine 10 are amazing all rounder that did well for 2-day Ramsay Round, number of trail runs and even some speedier sessions on trails. They do wear well too. I have not tried Peregrine ST (bigger lugs for softer terrain), but they're something on my list to try. 
• Saucony Xodus 10 are very similar to Peregrines with a bit more cushioning. Honestly, they don't feel much different, but definitely more protected. 
• Salomon Sense Rides are good all rounders and are marketed as road-to-trail shoe. They don't have amazing grip and don't do well in heavy mud, but they do feel like a road running shoe and good on trails and a bit of mud. It's my go-to shoe on easy trails or when I am going to run more on the road.

All being said, I would go either for Roclites or Peregrines... 

I need a wide fit and the Hoka Torrents are a good fit.

Thanks for suggestion. The Peregrines are definitely a bit easier on the eye than the Speedgoats! How do you find them in mud - not super deep clag but the kind of that sheep trails turn into in this kind of weather?

Will give accelerate a call, thanks. Tried Runners Need earlier but they were understandably reluctant to commit on what might be right for my foot. In boot terms, I'm definitely a Scarpa and not a La Sportiva, which was gutting when I was buying winter boots and Nepals were on sale...

Knees definitely need to be thought about. I ran 8 road and tow path miles this evening and really felt my heels and knees getting battered on the downhill dash home. My current shoes are getting old, which won't help, but so am I

Currently in Mizuno Wave Inspires - not sure which version - as I overpronate. They fit well and were really well cushioned. Had Brookes Boosts before that which were not as well cushioned but in hindsight, probably nicer to run in

Cheers, the terraultras do sound good but I'd be a bit concerned about the 0 drop as I've not run with that before. Does it take much getting used to?

They also look like they might struggle in mud.

I've given up on Inov8. I've come back to them a few times but I find they always fall apart on me. They have always split on the forefoot for me.

I got through multiple pairs of Speedcross 3's, 4's and 4 GTX shoes. Lasted pretty well but also split on the forefoot. The Speedcross 5 was crippling and I had to sell my pair after 50k as the crucified my achilles.

Now wearing Hoka Speedgoats for wet and muddy runs. Very happy with them them thus far. So happy I also got a a pair of Hoka ATRs for road/trail use. Felt great but fell apart after just 370km. Good support as they offered me a full refund. Now using Saucony Xodus 10 for road/trail and loving them. 300km in and they look new.

I've been using Saucony for my road shoes since the start of the year. I got 1200k out a pair of their road shoes and they still felt great when I retired them. 

Saucony may not be the lightest shoes but they feel a step on in quality and durability compared to most of the major brands.

For context I run 3000km a year with more than 75% of it off road.

Thanks PPP.

Currently, I'm running about the 8 mile mark, either on the road or in the hills and woods. I'm building distance back up after an injury but can't see me doing more than half-marathon distances. I'm supposed to be doing the Snowdon Half next year but I suspect I'll be better in my walking boots for that... I've been using my road shoes, currently Mizuno Wave Inspires for everything and that was fine while it was dry but recently they're just a liability on anything steep and wet.

From what you and others have said, I'm liking the sound of the Peregrines

I think that seals if for the Peregrines!
I tend to run my shoes into the ground so I'll take durability over lightweight.

Cheers

Scott Kinabalu. Not great in proper mud but decent enough and a good all-rounder for trails, roads, forest etc. Can't speak for the men's sizes but the women's ones are nice and wide - I have proper shovel-feet and there's plenty of room around the forefoot in the Scotts. And they're usually pretty cheap on SportsShoes.com

I didn't notice having to get used to it much to be honest but I can see why it might be an issue. 

I also haven't noticed them struggling in mud either but if I'm out and I know it's going to be propper boggy nonsense I'll be wearing my x-claws but I wouldn't pick them as a do everything shoe. 

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Hi PPP

Useful reviews there. I also have the Salomon sense rides and I've been surprised by how good they are off road (in the dry).

How does the sizing compare to the Peregrine 10's, as it looks like I'll be buying on line?

Have Peregrines not got a bit of a reputation for being a bit fragile? Friend of mine went through a pair on 50 miler, wrote it off as bad luck then got less than 100 miles out of his next pair before the upper failed.

Another vote for Hoka Mafate's. Pretty good on the road for a non-road shoe, good on the knees but do take about 100km to soften a bit. Roomier than Speedgoats around the toe. 

They size almost the same as Salomon's, the Mafate's feel about half a size bigger.

Expensive.

They have been fine in the mud, which most of my local trails are at the mo 

Re: Roclites - haven't had that exact model but had other Roclites. It's a 3 on their 1-5 width scale, about average. I have wide feet (wear Scarpa climbing shoes) and even I find their 5s a bit boatlike. 3 or 4 suits me better. They'd take a bit of road as would something like a Trailtalon.

Yeah Sense Rides are great but I took them on a hill run in February and ended up quite muddy! Great shoe, but has its place. Just like I wouldn’t want to run on a well groomed trail in X-Talons... 

I’m size 9 in Sauconys, Salomons, Inov-8s and Hokas. Sense rides and Peregrines do feel quite similar fit. 

Thanks, I'll have a punt at a pair of 9.5 Peregrines!

I've  more or less had a pair of each since about 3s or 4s, it usually takes me almost a year to wear them out and when I go back to the shop the new model has come out.  With the early ones I found the uppers didn't last very well (nothing as bad as your friend's though).  They tended to fall apart around the little toe for me.  I guess my toes splay apart and rub against the shoe there.  While I had the 6s I started using a Garmin watch and logging the mileage..

I had a pair of 7s that seemed to be near indestructible.  (So much so that I never had a pair of 8s - they came and went while my 7s were still going strong.)  1310km

The ISO's (I don't know why they weren't 9s) were a bit disappointing, fell apart at about 820km but the uppers were very tatty well before that.

My 10s currently have about 770km on the clock, and they're the first pair I've had where the sole seems to be wearing out before the upper, there's just a little tell-tale frizzy bit where the upper will eventually fail in the same old spot by the little toe.  Plenty of life left in them yet though, I think they might make it to 1000km.

I've barely worn the 10 STs so far (the new version with more aggressive lugs).  They don't feel nice on the tarmac bits but it's probably time to start wearing them a bit more now. I was slipping about in the mud like Bambi on ice at one point yesterday, it was hilarious.  
100km on the clock so far and they'd still look new if I cleaned them properly.

Depends on foot shape? Mine are very narrow so I use a specific Adidas terrex model that is recommended for narrow feet

If you have a wide forefoot, take a look at Altra, or Topo trail running shoes. Both brands are 'foot-shaped'.

Beware though, all Altra shoes are zero-drop, so no difference between forefoot and heel stack height. Topo have small drop, but it depends on model (my Terraventure 2  has 3mm).

I have Altra Superior and Altra Lone Peak. The Lone Peak is more robust, the Superior is lighter.  I have to say that these are the most secure feeling shoes I've ever used for descending steep slippery ground, and I think that relates to the zero-drop. Superior has a removable rock plate wheras on the Lone Peak its built in.

https://www.altrarunning.eu/uk/superior-4-5.html

https://www.altrarunning.eu/uk/lone-peak-4-5-2360.html

Not done enough miles in the Topo Terraventure 2 yet to give a full appreciation, but they're very very similar to the Lone Peak, but with 3mm drop and a Vibram sole:

https://www.topoathletic.co.uk/products/mens-terraventure-2-lightweight-low...

N

My favourite are Brooks Cascadia. On my 5th pair and they do for nearly everything. Used them for everything from Parkruns to 100m+ ultra's. I do have Fell shoes for when it gets really rough and muddy.

peregrine 8’s required shoe goo patching on the crease points from about 150 miles ☹️ - that said once reinforced with shoe goo they are ugly but are still going well at nearly 850 miles 😀

Peregrine 10s seem a lot tougher - and love the rock plate - real all rounder - mud, rock, track, road.....

Mine are like spades. I should probably use wellies...

I like the look of the Altras but I'd be concerned about the switch to zero drop. My Mizunos are 12mm so it would be a big change.

How did you get on with going to zero or have you always used them?

Cheers

Cheers Matt, I liked my Brooks road shoes so I'll give the Cascadias a look

I can certainly feel the difference, but not adversely. My road shoes are Brooks Ghost, which are also 12mm drop. I have had Achilles issues on my left foot (always from road cycling) and stemmed from one particular pair of cycling shoes, but I've never had problems from running.  Personally, I think my long history (I'm 58) of running and hillwalking has resulted in pretty robust feet generally for these activities (this was said by my wife who is a podiatrist!). 

If you're unsure, but decide to go for them, it may be best to get used to them slowly - alternate with your Mizunos and keep the zero-drop mileage low to begin with.

The Lone Peaks are the better shoe in my opinion. The Altra Superiors are a bit too fragile - I wrote mine off in Cousin Jack earlier this year with only 407km on the clock according to Strava (although that did include a Grizzly, a R.A.T. and some other similar events).

As I said, I've not enough miles in the Topo's yet, but so far so good.

I have some Brooks Cascadias too. Whilst they feel OK initially, after about 8km I begin to feel them as they must be slightly too narrow. As a result, I only use them for short runs or generally knocking about in.

N

I've always gone for a "minimal" type shoe say 6mm drop, and got some sale zero drop inov8 terraultras, but they cause my achilles/calves to play up, so looking for an alternative.  By coincidence I did happen to try on some zero Altras recently (about the only trail shoes left in the shop!), but knew when the heel sank down they weren't for me.         

In addition to liking the Peregrine 10 my road shoes are Brooks Ghost 12 which also fit really well.

Saucony have really been killing lately haven’t they. A lot of fans of Endorphin Speeds, I only hear good stuff about non ISO Rides/Triumph... Peregrine 10s seem to be favoured a lot too! 

Thanks all for the advice

A pair of Peregrine 10s are on their way. Fingers crossed that they fit...