UKH

As I was scrambling across Crib Goch in the wind and rain of Friday morning (oops) I crossed paths with a chap who had overtook us at the bottom (he going up the Pyg track), who was doing the Welsh 3000s that day.

Inspired me to want to do it! 

What kind of (brands / models) trail shoes do people wear to do a challenge like this? 

I've had two pairs of waterproof Asics trail shoes which have been great but are like ice skates on rock - would never scramble up any rock with them.

Also - I assume these folks just try to move quickly and efficiently over scrambling terrain rather than fully running across something like Crib Goch etc.?

And going down the scree slopes so common in that area - is the technique to use walking poles and to just move quickly and efficiently again? I can't imagine running down some of the things I was plodding down in my hiking boots that weekend (the steep, loose scree slopes).

If that guy  is on here then I hope you got round in the time you were aiming for and thanks for the inspiration!

In reply to elliot.baker:

There isn't one definitive answer here, Salomon, inov8, Asics, New Balance, VJ, and any number of others, mainly something comfortable and low profile.

Running down scree is one of the best fell running experiences out there !

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

But my Asics are great for wet mud and grass etc., but on rock will slide all over the shop lethally - compared to my hiking boots which even on smooth steep rock are like magnet boots!

In reply to elliot.baker:

Most fell shoes a crap on wet rock, some less so than others, i personally haven't worn a pair of boots in the hills for near 10 years and do around 750-1000 miles a year off road, probably 75% of that in the hills.

In reply to elliot.baker:

inov8 Rocklite 265 with the graphite sole are grippy on wet rock. Not waterproof but frankly what's the point of that..........

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

After recently running around Kinder in my trail shoes I said I'd never wear hiking boots up there again but I sprained my ankle up Bleaklow moderately badly last year and I'm now permanently very paranoid about doing the same again when wearing shoes / trainers rather than boots in the hills.

In reply to elliot.baker:

Sprained ankles is more to do with ankle and foot conditioning than it is with footwear.

In reply to Removed UserDeleted bagger:

If you only need a disposable shoe to stay in one piece for a couple of months then Inov8 are the way to go

In reply to elliot.baker:

I used La Sportiiva approach shoes last year for the 3000s - lots of grip on damp rock, but did the Snowdon section in Scarpa approach shoes, more ankle protection but just as grippy, newer and a bit less run-in so less confident about comfort over the full distance.

I have since invested in Inov8 Roclite Graphene shoes and have used them on the Skyline and Watershed successfully, very capable on rock and gravel. Not much protection on scree though. 

I tried, years ago, using Brooks Cascadia on the fells - just as your experience, OK until you meet wet rock, then lethal. Years ago we all used Walshes, which could do anything but gave no cushioning whatsoever...

In reply to elliot.baker:

The following review/thread might be of interest: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/gear/la_sportiva_jackal-723141

If I were to run it on a dry day I'd go with the Jackal, if it was a wet day I'd go with the Mutant. I've used a variety of other makes and models over the years, but these are the two I'm currently using and work well in a contrasting set of conditions.

The Roclite (which has been mentioned by a few other users) is also worth a look, not least because it fits the criteria perfectly, but I'd never found the build quality to be as good as the La Sportivas. 

In reply to elliot.baker:

Crib Goch is the only longer technical bit. Wear what's comfy and will still be tolerable hours later! I wore X-Talons and they were fine in the mist - not proper gopping weather but didn't have many views all day. I wouldn't get too bogged down in footwear, it shouldn't be your limiting factor. Getting the right soup and cake is more important

In reply to elliot.baker:

No fell or trail shoe will give good grip on wet polished rock like you'll find on the popular routes across the glyders and tryfan

In reply to elliot.baker:

I've done the 3000s a couple of times before - once hiking it in boots and the second running it (in the pouring rain) in road shoes. Road shoes were actually not quite as bad as you might expect and they were perfect for the jog down to Nant Peris! This weekend I was receeing the route for another go at it and I wore X Talons.

I'm not sure there's a perfect shoe for it all. Ideally you'd have a pretty sticky Roclite or similar for Crib Goch, then on the fairly boggy ground down to the road you'd have some bigger studs, switch to road shoes for the run to Nant Peris, and then on the Glyders either Roclites or X Talons are good. The Carneddau aren't technical and on tired legs a decent amount of cushioning might come in useful.

When I do it in a month's time I'm going to wear X Talons and will have a pair of Roclites sat in the car at the foot of Tryfan in case when I get there I feel like I'm falling apart, which is pretty likely.

The poles question is really interesting. I'd assumed poles would be useless until the Carneddau but having been overtaken by Beth Pascall at the weekend who was carrying poles and then going uphill using them in the Glyders I'm starting to rethink that. But then I'm not one of the world's better mountain runners... maybe there's more to her being rapid than just poles...

On Inov8 durability, it seems to be so hit-and-miss. I've done over 800km in a couple of pairs of Roclites with no issues, and my X Talons have done 600km and the uppers are essentially unworn. Another pair I had a while back though wore out pretty quickly, and the pair of Roclites I've just bought look like they're not going to last long. The problem is if you run as infrequently as me is that once you find a pair that lasts they'll have dropped them by the time you need some more.

In reply to elliot.baker:

Something with a decent rock plate in them as I found I was quite footsore from balancing on pointy stones by the end. I wore Brooks Cascadias a few years ago & I would probably use Salomon Sense Ride 3 now, because they love my feet and they are quite tough and protective, unless it was very mushy. 

Consider doing the alternative route to reduce the road unless you are after the record

In reply to elliot.baker:

Roclites 

Sense Pro 3 (if you can find them)

In reply to elliot.baker:

youtube.com/watch?v=ilHqrDDWMVk&

Crib goch starts around 1:30 and the North Ridge scree descent around 2:40. 

In reply to elliot.baker:

I'm a bit perturbed to see no one has mentioned On Running shoes here as I rather bafflingly  bought some at the weekend and I'm not sure if they are rated or not! Anyone?

In reply to elliot.baker:

Comfort is the main thing

TBH I'd use my speedgoats wide fitting. No toe issues. 

I just ran the white Mountains Hut Traverse, 54 miles 17,500 ft of ascent and no blisters at all. Shoe choice isn't that important as long as its comfy for 5+ hours.

In reply to Mr Fuller:

Inov8 have been up and down, supposedly they are good again. They were awful a few years ago. I think it depends on who owns the company (up high) and what their aim is.

In reply to Roadrunner6:

My Roclite 305s split so I sent them back. 315s were bombproof but not very breathable. Currently on the Roclite 275s with graphene sole which are holding up well. I actually intended to use them for the Welsh 3K. The outsole lives up to the hype IMO in terms of grip, of not wear. If it were me I’d use them as far as Ogwen then switch into a more comfortable trail shoe, as the Roclites aren’t very cushioned.

In reply to Tyler:

I’ve only owned a road going pair, but I assume the technology is similar. I liked the precise fit of the upper, the “cloud” cushioning system worked well enough and they felt responsive. However, the soles tended to pick up stones and I didn’t get much more than 300 miles out of them before they lost their bounce.

In reply to The New NickB:

Cheers Nick, I thought the cushioning was bit of a gimmick so glad to hear it's not even if the rest of the news is mixed!

In reply to Tyler:

I love my On Cloudventures good grip and fantastic cushioning. I am about to buy another identical pair. Bought them after my Scott? Pair disintegrated on the BG last year

Things to be aware of though:

I have extremely long narrow feet, so the fit may not be for all

After 500 miles, the bounce has gone (not too surprising) 

I wasn't expecting them to be waterproof, but you do get wet feet v quickly even just in wet grass

In reply to elliot.baker:

I wore mudclaws for the recce and the actual day. They are great for the squishy bits but not the rest. If I were to do it again then I use my Roclites.

Basically you want something that fits your foot shape well, doesn’t keep your heel too high off the ground but at the same time gives you enough cushioning for the stonier sections. Easy, right..... 😉

In reply to KrisNash:

Thanks Kris

This is what I thought so good to have it confirmed

I'm not much of a runner so this should do me fine!

I hope you're talking about the non-waterproof version, I went for the waterproof ones.

In reply to elliot.baker:

Cheap and very good for the money in my opinion, Karimor Mount Low 8 Weathertite.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Karrimor-Walking-Treking-Hiking-Weathertite/dp/B00...

Others seem to slate them, but I buy a new pair each summer and find them very comfortable reasonably light, certainly far lighter than boots and they even keep the damp out if you stick your foot in the odd wet patch.  I completed the Dartmoor Highgound marathon in a pair last summer and I am still wearing that pair and have done in excess of 700miles in them. They also stick to wet Granite like glue.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

My Roclite G290 have a split at the rand after 97 miles. It’s a shame as they are one of the nicest shoes on long days hills and been my go-to shoe for mountains. Emailed Inov-8 last week, but broke an Inov-8 waist pack before I got a reply! They do make great stuff, just wish it lasted. 
 

As great as X-Talons are, they really make my feet/legs ache. I run 80-100 miles a week and even 15 miles in X-Talons might be uncomfortable. 
 

Been pleasantly surprised by Saucony Peregrine 10, but too early to say. 

In reply to elliot.baker: I've got a pair of Salomon X-alpine pro that I'm liking a lot , but for a very long day I'd prefer more cushioning.. Speedgoats?

In reply to PPP:

I raced a marathon in x talons.. absolutely brilliant for 21 miles then I had a 5 mile descent on lots of stones and my feet were agony.

I’ve got the latest peregrines 10s and I’m not liking them as much as the ISOs, they don’t feel as protective. But the trails here are really rocky and on runs over 20 miles I was getting beaten up. 

In reply to elliot.baker:

Some people run across Crib Goch. 
 

I’m assuming you just want to walk the route though but move pretty quick. If you’re planning on running you’ll need to get some practice with a load of shorts runs on steep slopes first. That’ll be when you find out what works best for you. If you struggle, you may find that adjusting your technique will be more beneficial than just assuming you need different shoes. 

In reply to Roadrunner6:

Were those the original yellow ones?  I had the impression my replacement red ones had more underfoot protection, maybe they were just new. (No comfort problems for the 3000's, great for the descent from Bwlch Goch to the road, fine in the dry everywhere else, but useless on wet rock on a Tryfan recce).

In reply to Jim Hamilton:

This was an early pair of red ones, maybe 2011? 

In reply to Roadrunner6:

The 2010 yellow and black Talons were the 212, I had some red ones in 2011 they were the 190. Both wonderful on really soft ground, horrible on stoney paths.

In reply to The New NickB:

Yeah it was the 190's, wonderful shoe. 

I wore them the year I won the Peris and they disintegrated on me on the rocks on Snowdon. By the time I descended Moel Cynghorion the shoe was falling of my feet. Not an ideal choice but it was about all I had and they were just so comfy.

In reply to Roadrunner6:

Ha, mine caught a massive rip somewhere on the side of Eilio the year the Relays were around there. Good shoe, not great for traversing big scree! OP: don’t use a super light race shoe 😁