What is trail-running?

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 HB1 06 Nov 2020

I'm a bit confused about trail-running. Perhaps someone can help? I went for a run this morning. I started on tracks, went into Macc Forest so more tracks, some road, then on rougher ground uphill to Shuttlingsloe then grassy down, more road, the across fields etc, then a little more road to the car. Should I carry change of shoes? What is this "drop" I read about on UKC? I had a comfortable run in my newly bought Walshes. But they're not trail shoes are they, so I perhaps shouldn't have bought them (I should add that 20 odd years ago when I did a few fell races I had Walshes then) but no-one here seems to rate the brand any more. Please help if you can!

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 Marek 06 Nov 2020
In reply to HB1:

I guess trail running can be defined as the middle ground between road running (smooth soles OK) and fell running (max grip/stability, no padding, e.g., Walshes). Personally I think Walshes are not the best for Macc Forest & Shuttlingsloe - you're mainly on hard ground with only the descent into Wildboarclough benefiting from fell shoes. My Walshes tend to only come out if I know I need the grip & stability (e.g., lots of traversing hill sides and soft ground: grass, snow & mud not trails/paths).

Yes, Walshes seem to have fallen out of favour. There was a time when they were the only game in town, but now there are so many other choices. I also think the current Walshes (with loose insoles) are nothing like a good as the originals (no separate insoles). My feet slide around a lot more inside them whereas they used to bind to my feet like a second skin (the original inside was quite rough and the whole shoe would conform well to the shape of the foot).

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 dread-i 06 Nov 2020
In reply to HB1:

>I had a comfortable run in my newly bought Walshes.

The fact that you run in Walshes probably means you're not a real trail runner. More likely, one of those fell runner types who wear RonHills in all weathers. (Not to be confused with ultra runners, who need a running vest and poles at all times.)

Walshes, are probably the only thing still manufactured in Bolton, so a big plus for supporting British industry. But because they don't cost £140+ you fail as a trail runner. As for the mixed terrain you covered, it only counts as fell running if it was both windy and raining.

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 summo 06 Nov 2020
In reply to dread-i:

I thought real fell runners wear shorts unless it's at least -10c? 

 Jim Hamilton 06 Nov 2020
In reply to HB1:

It seems as though you have been “severe trail” running,  according to some retail website, for which it says your shoes are ideal.  Don’t worry about the “drop” as it looks as though you will have at least 6mm - it is the lack of a metaflex sole that should be of concern. 

 SouthernSteve 06 Nov 2020
In reply to HB1:

Trail running is a setting on a Garmin that doesn't calculate VO2 Max - very useful.

Otherwise its a bit artificial - just pick the right shoes for the amount of mud and rock!

The drop has become a 'thing', because there is a cult or philosophy depending on your point of view that we should not run with our heels higher than our toes. Like everything it really suits some people to have zero drop, whilst others limp to the physio with achilles tendinosis or calf injury.

 DancingOnRock 06 Nov 2020
In reply to HB1:

Is fell running like cross country running but with knobbly shoes instead of proper spikes? 

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 Kalna_kaza 06 Nov 2020
In reply to HB1:

Very subjective as others have said. For me:

Road = tarmac, concrete or other unyielding surfaces. Cushioning essential to avoid injuries.

Trail = forest tracks, paths with loose surfaces and likely to involve some significant ascent and descent. Decent grip desirable even if it's worn down prematurely on harder packed sections.

Fell = Steep ground, often untracked, maximum grip needed.

 TMM 06 Nov 2020
In reply to HB1:

Sounds like you’ve been out “wild running”. 

Please note that you will gain no pleasure from this activity unless you livestream your exploits on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok.

Post edited at 20:04
 Herdwickmatt 06 Nov 2020
In reply to TMM:

You are only qualified to discuss this topic if you’ve managed to resolve the conundrum about whether the Yorkshire 3 peaks race is trail or fell...

 didntcomelast 06 Nov 2020
In reply to summo:

And a vest. Only a vest and shorts no matter what!

our club coach used to insist on that for cross country races. 

 ianstevens 06 Nov 2020
In reply to summo:

Only if they're short enough that a ball pops out, otherwise they're just trousers

Edit: no idea what the female equivalent would be

Post edited at 19:45
 ianstevens 06 Nov 2020
In reply to TMM:

> Sounds like you’ve been out “wild running”. 

> Please note that you will gain no pleasure from this adventure unless you livestream your exploits on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok.

You forget the big one.... it must, and I mean MUST, be on Strava. And write a blog. 

 TMM 06 Nov 2020
In reply to ianstevens:

> You forget the big one.... it must, and I mean MUST, be on Strava. And write a blog. 

Obvs! Goes without saying! 
If it’s not on Strava it DID NOT HAPPEN.

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 SouthernSteve 06 Nov 2020
In reply to ianstevens:

There is a possible equivalent in the village, a runner who seems to run in a bikini. However she is VERY fast so I have never said hello to find our whether an exhibitionist or a fell runner!

 summo 06 Nov 2020
In reply to Kalna_kaza:

Trail running; might meet people so it's vital to keep a little bit in reserve to speed up if seen, colour coordination is desirable, as are compression socks and hydration system for anything over 3km. 

Fell Running; wear what works, disappointed if you see anyone as you've clearly not gone off the beaten track enough. 

Removed User 06 Nov 2020
In reply to HB1:

Unless there's special factors like distance, altitude gain, weather, duration etc that require additional skills, it's all just 'running'.

 greg_may_ 07 Nov 2020
In reply to HB1:

Not road running - otherwise who cares what you define it as. 

 DancingOnRock 07 Nov 2020
In reply to Herdwickmatt:

Used to be fell, but the paths are so good, it’s now trail. You don’t even need a map and navigation skills to do it. 

 The New NickB 07 Nov 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> You don’t even need a map and navigation skills to do it. 

Which can be said for a very high proportion of fell races.

A fell race, in England anyway, is any race organised in accordance with FRA rules.

Even way back, the Y3P was won by guys who primarily raced on other surfaces, in fact probably more so then than now. Colin Robinson, who won it in 1969 is a friend of mine and he was primarily a XC (British and International XC Junior Champion in 1961), road and track runner. I also know Jeff Norman, who was second to Colin in 1969 and won it 1970-1975. He was primarily a road runner (ran the marathon at the 1976 Olympics and held the 50km world record for both road and track).

OP HB1 07 Nov 2020
In reply to HB1:

Many thanks guys!  All your help and comments will now stand me in much better stead. I knew I could rely on The Collective to set me on the right path (or trail, track, field etc) I do indeed wear a pair of cut-down Rons in winter (over a pair of compression shorts - hip replacement)  I know Shutters very well - there are ways to it that I'd call fell-running! If I know I'm not going to diverge off track or trail I'll probs wear some old Mizunos. But if indeed I'm indulging in 'wild-running' then I need to be prepared for the variety (hence the tongue-in-cheek suggestion of carry more than one pair of shoes). I think I'll drop my short-term interest in the 'drop' . All a bit too arcane for me.

Hope to meet you all out on the fell or field some time (well - probably not - I'm a grumpy old bod. Particularly when I'm running)

Cheers

 timjones 07 Nov 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> Is fell running like cross country running but with knobbly shoes instead of proper spikes? 

What exactly are "spikes"?

Loads of people seem to ask whether they should wear "spikes" for a race but when you ask what they mean by "spikes" they get all evasive and select their shoes themselves. After the race it usually transpires that they wish they had worn "spikes"

On the other hand sometimes a race specifies "no spikes" and I have to ask whether my only available running shoes are legal, at this point even the most ardent disciples of "spikes" tend to shrug their shoulders and look confused

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 wbo2 07 Nov 2020
In reply to timjones:  Honestly ?- spikes are spiked shoes.  You can buy some cross country spikes if you want, but the best option is almost always track spikes with 15mm javelin spikes - they pick up mud less than the special xc spikes.  I like Nike zooms 

I have a nice set of scars from getting spikes 20 years or so ago...

Always shorts and vests for xc - if it's snowing gloves are tolerated

As I recall the vast majority of fell races do not need a map.  That's a new fangled addition.

Post edited at 16:51
 plyometrics 07 Nov 2020
In reply to The New NickB:

Can see seriously good road runners excelling at Y3Ps.

Never feels like a fell race to me. Always consider it a long, fast moving, ‘trail’ race, with a couple of sharp steeps lobbed in. 

I always think it’s a hard race though, one that demands the runner to administer some real thought, discipline and tactics to run well, irrespective of ability. 

Back on topic, agree with Waitout, it’s all just running. Who really cares what ‘discipline’ it is, as long as you’re out there enjoying yourself. 
 


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