UKH

I set myself the target of running 1000km this year and I've been sticking to it religiously (we're 30.1% of the way through the year, and I've ran 308km so have 7km in the bank!).

But I'm not following any kind of training plan. Basically my question is - is my running still productive in terms of increasing my fitness, in whatever sense of the word?

I prefer 10km trail runs that are very hilly, this weekend I set a PB for my favourite home route that blew out of the water my PB from the previous week, which in turn I thought was amazing for me compared to my winter runs times - I think this is definitely partly because the trails were swamps over winter but now are hard and dry. 

I want to know what's next for my running - how do I get more betterer!?! Do I need to follow a training plan or can I just keep doing the runs I like, or will I then plateau? I know there are libraries full of books on running training...

In reply to elliot.baker:

I’ve spent a large part of my lifetime running to no particular plan, just because I enjoy it and miss it if I stop! The only planning I’ve ever done is to extend my long runs when I had an event coming up. I’ve found that keeping the habit, rather than letting it become sporadic, is good for perceived fitness and yields a small improvement in pace which levels off quickly. I’ve no doubt that disciplining myself to a plan, for which I would have needed a club, would have produced major gains and fewer injuries, but there you go. A 3h 22m Marathon in my thirties will remain my high water mark and I’m not unhappy with that.

In reply to elliot.baker:

I don't do a training plan myself either, I run when I want to run, as fast as I want to (within the realms of the possible, obviously ) and as far as I want to.  The upsides are it's enjoyable, you get some nice endorphins at the end, you don't stress about fitting it in, you keep the lard off and you stay fit.

The downside is that it isn't as effective as targetted training towards a specific goal.

Up to you how important that is, really.

In reply to elliot.baker: I found interval training improved my running times dramatically. I had plateaued on my run times and went to an Uli Steck lecture in which he said interval training sessions were one of the best things he did to improve speed. 

I joined regular training sessions with my local running club, as it’s much easier to push yourself in group sessions. However in these lock down times, there are numerous articles on interval training you can find on the internet and follow yourself. It hurts, but it works. 
 

In reply to elliot.baker:

It sounds as if you're running more than you used to. If that is true, you'll certainly be getting better, as your PBs show. As your period of regular training continues, you'll carry on improving, but you would eventually plateau. You'd get to a stage where you couldn't lower your PB, but you would still be building up your stamina.

If you wanted to get even fitter/faster then you'd need to either increase your mileage, or the intensity of some of your sessions. Don't ever do this too abruptly, or you might get injured; 'no week should be an increase of more than 15% from the previous week' is a good rule-of-thumb which worked for me when I was younger and trying to improve as quickly as possible.

I found it useful to have several different sessions, to give variety. Sometimes relaxing steady runs, sometimes hills, sometimes intervals (fast for 30 secs, slow recovery for 30 secs etc), sometimes really 'going for it' to try for a PB. As well as your favourite run, find another couple of circuits that you can time, perhaps one that is shorter, and another longer.

Good Luck! I started training at age 36, and didn't reach my fastest until I was about 44/45, so you've got years of improvement ahead if you have the time and the commitment.

In reply to elliot.baker:

Running training, as any other, follows stress-adaptation pattern. You stress your body, your body adapts to the stress and becomes better at doing something. 
 

The problem is that doing the same thing will help for a while, but at some point it will not be providing enough stress. Some sort of training plan will ensure that you do provide enough stimulus to keep yielding results. 
 

So it depends what your goals are? Some of training runs aren’t always the most pleasant and it totally depends whether you enjoy self inflicting pain! 

In reply to elliot.baker:

I did the same last year, with my 'plan' pretty much identical to yours.. 10k-ish, hilly trail routes. This year I've done the same but added a 100,000ft ascent aim for the year. I'm well ahead on the distance thanks to lockdown but due to lockdown I haven't been heading for the bigger hills either so am slightly behind on that.

Across both years, runs have been sporadic and whenever I felt like it, or whenever the weather was good. In that time I've gone from maybe 9min/miles to sub 7 min/miles as my general target. So yes, I'd say gains are very likely, even if you're not particularly looking for them. 

The closest thing to structure I have is running certain segments as fast I can, so I can crawl up the Strava leader boards

In reply to elliot.baker:

Just by running you become a more efficient runner. Plus mental health benefits etc. combating again.

I think we forget just how unhealthy society is. I’m 40, my mates from school can barely run 5k. 

In reply to elliot.baker:

I have run most of my life, sometimes with a training plan, sometimes just for fun. Having some sort of sketchy plan at least provides a huge benefit if you want to get faster or have a particular target in mind (like finishing a marathon). This may be as simple as running a bit faster once a week and a bit longer during the weekend and do some changes of rhythm occasionally. Personally, I get burnt out easily of I follow a strict plan (mostly mentally).

But just running without any type of plan, whilst not as good for performance, although has some benefits:

- keeps you fit

- makes you run more efficiently (as has already been mentioned)

- clears your mind

In reply to elliot.baker:

Good timing thread... was debating how to fit running in around climbing earlier in another link. For what is worth I have been running in different scenes for about 20yrs. Only really ever been structured about mileage and ascent gain. I think the structure starts to play a bigger part if you get the mileage up where injuries start. Running times seem to correlate to training mileage for me... although I think I gain slightly more by doing more miles and less days, rather than more days of less miles. Anyway below is as structured as it gets for me...

Monday: Rest

Tuesday: Climbing Power Day - Fingerboard + hard bouldering (~2hr)

Wednesday: Climbing Power Endurance Day - Either indoor circuits (~2hrs) or bolts clipping evening.

Thursday: Run - ~13miles/500m total ascent.

Friday: Rest

Saturday: Climb Power Endurance Day - Either bolt clipping or big wall.

Sunday: Run - ~13miles/500m total ascent.

That keeps me pretty solid at Sport 7a/7b (need to pick my battles to operate any higher). I mix some trad in, but if I do too much me grades drop cos I am to scared to push as hard.

Running: Around a 35min10K region, probably good for around 10th place on a standard peak district mid-distance fell run. I have been slightly better at running in the past but the mileage as to go up to 40+ a week really, which does start to bring the injuries on, and climbing goes out the window.

In reply to elliot.baker:

Interesting question. I run without a properly structured plan, just aiming to do the same beautiful off road hilly run every other day, taking about 45 minutes depending on mud. At one point I was following a structured marathon training plan and even using a heart rate monitor in preparation for a race. I found that it took a lot of the joy out of my running and it was difficult to run slowly enough. Although I got quicker I don’t think I would have been able to carry on like that for the rest of my life, whereas I look forward to my current runs. I also managed to pick up an overuse injury by sticking too rigidly to the plan. Some people are all about getting better, or being the best, but not me. I’m interested in long term and sustainable benefits to health and happiness. 

In reply to elliot.baker:

Training plans are great when you want to enter something tough or new and life is quite busy. It gives you a template to get out there and get the hours in. At the same time it also serves as constant countdown to the big one. I have used a few over the years before events. 

I would definitely keep a diary or use Garmin Connect, Training Peaks or Strava to look back on what you have done, although some of the training metrics are a bit dodgy. 

In the past, when I started running, it was when I upped my mileage from where you are now that I would start getting some niggles (the physio thought this was quite common), so rather than a training plan for running you could look at adding form assessment and strength and conditioning rather than particular types of run. Perhaps you should buy one of those books!

In reply to SouthernSteve:

Running to a training plan allows for improvement in times and efficiency but I have found that a bit like climbing the more you do the better you get.  If I'm over competitive with training that I can lose motivation, if for a range of reasons I'm unable to keep up a training plan and performance dips. If I do an activity for enjoyment and general fitness I am able to maintain motivation and general improvement.   For me the pshcohological benefits of removing competition whether that's by using training apps or over focus on times means a much more enjoyable experience.  I use training plans to reduce injuries such as mixing the type of exercise, such as form and HITT, but don't have a focus on timings. If races or preparation for expeditions are the focus then training plans are great and can serve to focus the mind and body to achieve a particular aim.  

In reply to elliot.baker: You're probably plateau'ed on the training you're doing now, but there might be a couple of ways to get better.  First of all 1000km a year is only 20K a week, and given you like 10km trail runs you're doing 2,3 runs a week.? I'd probably up that a bit , and then consider doing some intervals on the top IF that's what you want to do.  You could probably just do intervals off a timer, something like some 3,4minutes on, 1 minute off stuff.

If you want a plan you need to know what you're planning for   

In reply to elliot.baker:

Im pretty much the same, I have a goal of 1000km for the year and my main pleasure from running is being out on the trails getting away from it all. I dont generally have a training plan unless there is a longer distance event coming up then I go out for longer. I just do the route that takes my fancy on the day 

In reply to elliot.baker:

With or without a plan, running should help keep you fit/increase your fitness. Will probably make you feel good too. In order to improve you may find a plan helps and a decent training book would be a good start on this road.

I run hilly 10km's fairly regularly to help keep fit, but there's no focus or plan as I'm not looking for improvement, the running is simply in addition to lots of other activity. My partner who has been running on the fells for about 20 years now wanted to up her distance to do an Ultra. So engaged the services of a coach, this worked really very well, with detailed training plans arriving I think every week. She had a goal in mind which was also very helpful. In case you're interested, it is these guys she uses: https://www.missinglinkcoaching.co.uk

In reply to elliot.baker:

A couple of years ago, when my son was born, I set a goal of 1000 miles (1610km) for the year. I was near enough a non-runner, so built up slowly with regular short (5-6km) runs, and by about June was able to bang out 16-22km as a regular run, and nearly marathon distance by September. All off road - I think pavements would have ended play before I'd even began. I hit 1000 miles on 29th December I think I did about 35,000m of ascent or thereabouts. 

Anyway, I had no plan or schedule and just ran when I could (that was sort of the point, with a new baby, many of my runs were at odd, slightly unhealthy times). The fitness came slowly and the main thing was trying to avoid injuries. Don't neglect glute strengthening, stretching, strength training etc. I bet with a plan you could achieve a lot more, a lot quicker, but as others have said, it depends what you want. For me I just enjoyed being out in the Peak running over the moors, and having something to do while climbing was off the menu. The following year I got back in to climbing and my fitness has been pretty terrible ever since. There's only so much time for exercise when you've got kids!

Good luck reaching your target. If you're like me, the stats and the motivation of a target are really part of the fun, but don't let them become a detriment to the fun of just getting out in the fresh air

In reply to elliot.baker:

I'm a bit of a geek and love the numbers and data with running. I also run ultra marathons and rocking up to one of those undertrained is not advised so I spend a lot of time tweaking a training plan.

I use TrainingPeaks to plan my main races and then periodization leading up to those in 3 week blocks. As other people have said, the body plateaus if you don't stress it (and rest it) in the right ways.

One of the biggest problems in training properly is we tend to train too hard too often, and having a plan helps you manage the accumulated fatigue and factor in enough recovery and easy days.

All that said, my training has been rubbish for the first quarter of this year - it always takes a while to get going but I've gone through a big motivation dip although it seems to be getting back on track.

I've never run with a training plan and I recon I compete pretty well, the more you do, the faster you go, the easier it gets, the more fun it is. 

There is a lot to be said for running for running's sake

Lawrence

In reply to elliot.baker:

Joy

In reply to elliot.baker:

A training plan will help you reach your running objectives - its about using your time optimally.  The first thing you need to do is set an objective - training for a 10k is different marathon.

A certain level of performance will require a training plan - simply doing what you enjoy won't be enough.