UKH

I’ve been looking into a new vest pack for mountain ultras and general long runs as the zips on my old Salomon Adv Skin have now all failed, I have the 12L version but have been thinking about going down to the 5L version. 
What size are people using for events such as the Lakeland50? I think I can fit all the kit in a 5, but might be a squeeze (maybe I’m carrying too much extra stuff?). Any thoughts on a 5L vest VD the 12 for such events? 

I'd go 12 if I had to get one. I have a few now but it's easier to use the bungees than over stuff it and then rip or get uncomfy.

The bumbags are 3-4l, full waterproofs, food, you are soon bursting that open.

I think the way these modern vests are designed, there is no reason to go for the smaller version. Yes, you can probably get the mandatory kit for a 50 miler into a 5l bag, but the 12l version gives you more options without any added discomfort. 

You might struggle to get the kit in for the LL50, its probably doable but will be stuffed full and badly fitting also not much left for food and other non kit list items, i used a 12 in 2018 and will be doing so again this year, if i can get my mileage up that is......

I had a 5 - sold it and bought a 12. I vaseline the zips as they are the Achilles heel of the Salomon vests. I am probably far too slow to have a small pack.

I have recently given up on Salomon for just this reason (and general durability). I think they have taken the wight-saving a bit too far.

I've always gone on the larger side - been using a UD AK3.0 which is 12L but the bungees are starting to perish and the pole holders are broken so was looking at getting something new ahead of UTMB this year.

I ordered the Patagonia Sloperunner (8L) which seemed a good compromise but trying it on I'd be a bit nervous about fitting everything in, especially if its bad weather and we have to carry the extra kit. 

One thing I've learned from ultras over the years is that you need less stuff than you think you do. However the main thing is having a pack where you can easily get to stuff without stopping and taking it off, and if everything is crammed in tight this is made more difficult.

Yeah stitching is a bit of a weak point on my Adv Skin 12 too. Wiggle has refunded the money as it was under warranty and I have fixed stitching in three places now. 
 

Saying that, it’s the comfiest bag for me. I also have Slab 5 one but I don’t use it for training runs. It’s a bit more breathable and lightweight so might use it for shorter races. 
 

I’ve also got a Compressport waist belt that’s been incredibly good for shorter (up to 3hr) runs. Packs essentials and even poles. 

What did you go for ? I need to replace my nearly 8 year old one as the mesh on the pockets has ripped, friends have bought the new version and they are not holding up too well so was thinking of the UD Ultra Vest 5.0, they look pretty good

We've a mixture of vests in the house from 3L salomon jobs, to 20L UD Fastpacks.

I'd always err on the side of extra volume for ultras, especially if it's an early start and you're going to be wearing kit that may end up in the bag.  I do most of my running now with an 8L BD Distance 8 which feels like it has more volume. Moved away from Salomon due to their tendency to fall apart and the twiddly chest closure system - doesn't work for me when I've got cold hands.

Wife loves the UD Ultra Vesta. Has a race version as well. 

I tried the new Sense Pro 10 (and the older Ultra a couple of years ago) and came to the same conclusion, the fabric feels like it could rip easily, I also found that are are more bouncy than the old Slab ADV Skin.

 Thanks for all the comments I think I’ll still with the larger size. Has anyone tried the new Montane Gecko VP 12? 

Funnily enough I've got the Gecko VP 5+ and 20+ on review, but not the 12+. As such, I'm in both a good and a bad place to pass comment...

I've been really impressed with the versatility of the 5+, which has become my go to vest for most of my mid to long distance runs. None of these runs have been quite as long as the Lakeland50, but neither has the pack/vest been anywhere near full on those that I've done, so there's definitely space to spare. As such, you could be fine, but I've always preferred to have something slighty under-packed than completely overstuffed.

On that note, I was out with the 20+ this weekend, going for a longer and more committing run in the snow, so required a bit more kit to stay on the safe side. I'm pretty sure that the 12+ would have been perfect for this, as the 20+ still felt like overkill, but was impressed with how well it cinched down.

With that in mind, and given that there's only 20g difference between the two, I'd probably opt for the 12+ given what you're looking for.

If you're wanting any further thoughts regarding either of the above let me know, as I'm writing up the review currently.

I have the older Montane VIA Jaws 10, which has been fine for the LL100. Anything smaller would have been more trouble than it's worth even if I could squeeze the kit in. The compulsory kit is fairly strict for the 100, and I guess the same for the 50: waterproof top and bottoms, and full spare set of clothes. What you want to avoid, when tired, is the "Bloody hell, I'm cold/hungry/wet... but right now I can't be bothered to unpack, find what I want, and then repack... so I'll just ignore it" feeling.

I have the Osprey Duro 15 and it fits like a glove, plus I needed a new reservois so having it come with a 2.5L bladder and 2 collapsable 500ml bottles was a real plus. Think I picked it up for £115 from trekkit. I regularly see the Duro 6 (comes with bottles but no bladder, though is compatable with one) under the £100 mark too if you were wanting to drop down in size. I like the peace of mind the Osprey guarantee brings to be honest. Feels like you buy a pack and you never have to worry about it again.

Dare say it depends on the person to some extent. I'd pack a spare kitchen sink if I could, so actively try to keep pack size down to prevent me from doing that. Obviously that's not an issue which would affect most.

Rob,

I guess the important question I'd ask is; durability worries aside, how do they compare to the equivalent (lighter) salomon packs? Comfort, stability, usability.

While they ditched the asymmetrical pockets in front, they still have the velcro closure in front. 
 

As much as I wanted to like it on my Jaws 10, it started to fray way before my Adv Skin 12 started to show any signs of use. Also, dirt and grass finds its way there. I was never impressed or convinced by it. I sold Jaws 10 due to pocket design but the elastic velcro was more annoying than solving problems. I do love and swear by Montane kit otherwise. 
 

FWIW I found that Adv Skin 12 is big enough for winter kit: lightweight insulated jacket, full waterproofs, crampons, substantial first aid kit and survival bag, Sony RX100 + all the usual bits. Not sure what else you’d take without slowing down (and increasing risk) due to weight. I have a UD Fastpack 25 for anything bigger but rarely use it. 

I think a consideration for review which you have kind of touched on is how they perform when stuffed totally full as the fit does change significantly, sometimes for the worse. Pole carrying is another one to look at, I know not everybody uses them but they should be capable of carrying them in some manner.

I haven't used the Salomon packs, so on this occasion can't offer a direct comparison. In general though I'd say that the Gecko Packs' focus is on comfort and usability.

Given the level of interest it'll likely be a category we'll aim to do a Group Test of at some point, as it'd be good to get each of the various brands discussed side-by-side.

Totally, this is exactly what I was getting at. I'd probably go one step further and say that it often makes it worse, which is why recommend the larger size - just to be safe.

This is definitely something we'll be factoring into the review, and the same goes for pole storage, although Montane appear to have this dialled, with a couple of different options. 

Microspikes too. Some have no back protection so can be uncomfy once anything metal goes in. I've the UD ones but don't like how they carry the poles on the elastic straps at the side of your chest. With the water already there it's a pain. 

thanks for the comments, do you find the back panel breathable enough, I had a look at one and it seems to have a waterproof type inner behind the mesh, did you find this  to get a bit warm/sweaty? 
 

For review points, I’d be interested in how it feels with water bottles at the front but nothing in the back, I often use mine for shorter runs to carry water and keys and some of the super light salomons seems a bit bouncy without something in the back

I went for Grivel Mountain Runner, basically because I saw a really good offer locally. So far it's sturdy and comfortable. 

The UD ones are supposed to be quite sturdy as well.

I think the more recent UD ones arent so sturdy. Lighter thinner material so gave up some robustness.

I overpacked mine and a corner of my vaseline tube cut a hole in the new thinner material.

you need to lube up!

My opening caveat to any back system is that no matter how breathable it is, you will get sweaty simply by it being there. That said, there are degrees of sweatiness...

When it comes to the Gecko Packs, they're constructed of a very open, wicking and breathable mesh which does a good job of dispersing sweat and pushing it out and away from your body. There are two layers to it, with a face fabric that grabs the sweat from your body, then another behind it, which - at least in theory - means it shouldn't feel too sweaty next to skin and/or clothing.

In terms of my personal experiences I haven't found sweat to be a problem, but then again it's been quite cold lately, so I'll reserve judgement until it gets a bit warmer, but so far so good. The fact it's treated with Polygiene is a blessing, because - as per my opening caveat - there's nothing that's going to stop you sweating and without the Polygiene treatment I could see a vest becoming quite smelly in time.

Funnily enough I read your post just before going on a run last night and did exactly this. It's absolutely fine, although it helps that the vest fits well. 

In the reviews I saw one said that they appreciated the waterproof panel as it stopped stuff getting wet with sweat (I think the reviewer was in Australia) and another said that it made them sweaty. Horses for course. However as soon as you put anything in to the pack I expect the breathability offered by the back panel will disappear as the contents aren't breathable.

@Rob Greenwood - there are the options to put the waterbottles in to the upper / lower bottles. Is it easier to get full water bottles in to the zipped pockets when wearing a full vest or the upper, or about the same? If using the lower, zipped pockets, are the upper pockets elasticated enough to stop other items (e.g. energy food / compasses) bouncing out?

I think that there are 2 further, smaller pockets near the apex of the shoulder, which have a sideways pocket (similar to the Salomon AD 12) - are these actually any use?

Yeah - that's something I've never understood anyway. How does that sweat panel breathe any worse than the drybags, goretex, camelbak, plastic bag with lunch, insulated layer and plastic camera that you have in there?

Mine UD pack is getting a bit like Triggers broom. If the wife hadn't formerly been a seamstress it would have collapsed by now

Why not get the S/Lab Sense Ultra 8? I’ve had mine for 4 years now and can’t believe it’s still in such good condition, given how much use it’s had and how ridiculously light weight it is.

I use mine a lot on shorter runs just to carry a bottle and phone/keys, nothing in the back and my current one is just mesh so no problems 

Didn’t like the fit of the Sense, came up too high at the back of the neck for me. I tried the new Pro10 recently but sent it back as it was very bouncy, I don’t think there’s enough fabric structure to keep it secure 

Today I received a Montane Gecko VP12, and like the Salomon ADV 12, it will probably be fine whether its carrying a full load or just a waterproof in the main body. The main section has a good cinching system with an internal tensioner, and it begs the question of why you'd get the 5.

The velcro strap makes it feel like it may get warmer (slightly) than it otherwise would as there seems to be a lot of material there, but its probably only slightly more than what you get on other packs, it slao makes one of the chest straps redundant which you could remove. The top 'pocket' where they expect you to slip a waterproof looks a little small, fine for a windproof but time will tell.

There are 2 small pockets on the apex of the shoulders, which are stitched at the top and bottom corners and elasticated, probably good for putting gels in.

Thanks. The motane quotes 235g and the salomon 335, but the salomon includes "all accessories" which I assume means soft flasks as well. So the weight is likely a wash.

I guess it comes down to slightly more stability and a bit of restrictive feel vs breathable but slightly less durable potentially?

I guess fit will play a role as well.

I tried the Geckos this week, the VP+ doesn’t have a waterproof layer and was generally quite nice, felt a little heavier than my old S-lab ADV skin. The 12 seemed similarly nice, the elastic compression straps are probably better designed than the new ADV SKin as they don’t pull the top of the pack down.

I sent them both back though as the fit doesn’t work for me, large being too big and medium too tight under the arms.