UKH

https://runningmagazine.ca/trail-running/utmb-ironman-partnership-draws-hea...

Seems to be seen as a bit of a bad thing.  Ironman is apparently owned by a hedge fund and doesn't have the greatest reputation.  There's a conspicuous absence of an Ultra-trail US race in the proposed schedule.

In reply to George Ormerod:

I've been around a few IM events that my wife has done and the commercial side of things left a bad taste in my mouth. They wanted friends and family to pay to get into the prize giving at IM UK! 

However, it's not as if the UTMB is a low key, grassroots event. I always got the impression that it too was a big commercial circus so it's hard to get worked up about it.

In reply to George Ormerod:

This is good.

No one will have creases in their shirts.

In reply to DaveHK: I think it’s the concern of what it’s going to do to the rest of the sport. Race prices for “trail” events can already verge on the ridiculous. Does it mean the other medium/large races then need to offer an Ironman/utmost style event? 

I don’t think it’s the end of the world, but it definitely looks like a harbinger

In reply to Herdwickmatt:

Fair enough. I must say the IM experience really boiled my piss, every single opportunity to monetise something is milked to the max and it's all wrapped up in a sugar coating of celebrating human endeavour to make it palatable.

I always try to be polite to staff at events especially as most are volunteers but when they asked for money to watch my wife getting her age group prize I'm afraid my first response was "you f*cking what?!!" Total exploitation of people's feelings. After apologising for swearing I explained why this was ridiculous and you could see the guy thinking 'aye right enough this is bollocks'. The person in charge explained that I wasn't paying to see the prize giving but for the food at the 'prize giving breakfast'. Having explained that I'd already eaten they let me in for nothing but there were plenty of families paying £30+ to see mum or dad or whatever on the podium. Hopefully the UTMB won't be afflicted with that kind of shit.

In reply to George Ormerod:

As someone who has been building up qualifying points over the last few years to attempt the UTMB this year (I've already done CCC and TDS so have a taste of what it's like as an event) this does simultaneously feel like more hoops to jump through while rewarding those with the means to enter expensive races rather than those with ability. There is no doubt that the event is massively commercial - but no more than a big city marathon.

I'm conflicted because as a participant (and a spectator) I've had amazing experiences at UTMB. As an ultra runner I spend huge periods of my runs alone, even in races but to be swept up in the party atmosphere of UTMB is like nothing else in the sport and I'd recommend the experience. However I'll be glad to get UTMB out of my system this year and just go back to lower key events with less pressure (the pressure being that you've spent so long trying to get in, not that I'm vying for a position or anything!).

I suppose we should be thankful that this is a sign that the sport is growing and is more and more popular but this is bound to bring a backlash against 'incomers'. It's still possible to race all distances fairly cost effectively if you stay away from the honeypot events (*my local running club in the French alps runs the 86km UTV in September for a quarter of the price of UTMB entry if you're interested https://en.ultratrailvercors.com/).

*blatant plug

In reply to DaveHK:

I think my response would have been exactly the same as yours. 

Did they also have an on site tattoo artist giving them all their obligatory IM logo mementos for the bargain price of £250 ?

In reply to yorkshireman:

Having done UTMB and TDS (and a bunch of other races), it is very clear that the UTMB is a huge circus that is the Sponsors' race. There are plenty of other better races out there, that are really for the runners.

I've not done Vercors, but it does sound nice.

Steve

In reply to George Ormerod:

Ironman is carried almost entirely by its brand, rather than quality of event nowadays. They also have managed to annoy everyone with their approach to the pandemic: waiting until the event is close (so people have booked days off work, accommodation and travel) then cancelling it and not giving refunds. The UTMB qualification system seems of more concern to the UK though - the IM partnership seems to relate primarily to the USA. Expect prices of certain events to shoot up when they have UTMB qualifier spots.

It will just make fell races feel like even more absurdly good value for money.

In reply to Denning76:

That's been the case for a while though.

Trail running has been heading this way for a while. I've seen a few sponsored runners coming out against this but they were OK when the TNF/Solomon/ITRA were coming up with similar shenanigans. It's increasingly about the money. Fell running has its fair share of bullshit but just not with the money element for the most part.

I don't mind spending a lot on a race if I see that return. Sometimes the RD is pocketing pretty obscene amounts of cash. Other times they are incredibly vague about where the money is going.

I loved the UTMB and do like the odd big event like that but it just seems so money orientated now.

In reply to George Ormerod:

There's a lot on twitter about this, sounds a pretty unsavory business model - contact the directors of a high profile race and tell them if they want the major runners to enter then they better stump up to become part of the UTMB/IM cartel.

Glad the limits of my ambitions are fell races that cost a couple of quid to enter and a sticky bun at the end.

In reply to Ridge:

I heard a rumour some time ago that Ironman used to buy out other competing triathlons in the area and then just stop running them. 
 

In reply to Ridge:

I think the UTMB had a pretty unsavoury business models before this to be honest, I know the Bob Graham round committee had some pretty strong words to say about it when the UTMB started charging events to be points counters to entry when the ITRA came into existence, hence the BGR is no longer a counter along with a few other UK events.

In reply to George Ormerod:

There are a number of options:

Stump up and do the events if you wish.

Don't do them. Enter small fell races without finishing tunnels and accompanying circus.

Just go for a run, bike, swim and enjoy it.

Jump on the bandwagon and profit from it, there is a huge amount to be made from this. Organise a climbing/swim/run/bike/walk/camp/dogging festival, charge a huge entry fee to access free to use facilities print some event t shirts so the punters feel they get something. I only ask a 20% consultancy fee. 

In reply to Presley Whippet:

Although I agree completely (£20 to run a 5k 'trail' on public footpaths??), I think the issue here is the larger Ultra events which do take a lot of time, admin, support staff and hence costs.

If these races need the more high profile runners to do them in order to raise their profile and hence attract more runners, then they're being forced to pay to join the circus and hence raise prices even more.

Doesn't affect a punter like me, but I can see the problem for Ultra races.

In reply to Ridge:

Sportives, ultras, triathlons really are a capitalists dream. Huge entry fees in, advertising/sponsorship revenue in. Hire a field, fencing, portaloos, a bit of public liability insurance. Get the local sports clubs to do the donkey work on a voluntary basis and kerching. 

In reply to Presley Whippet:

I think what people are worried about here is losing the middle ground between the massive corporate events like IM at £500 a go and low cost grassroots events like fell races. 

In reply to Presley Whippet:

Either you're joking or you haven't got a clue! 

In reply to PPP:

I think a difference between that and trail running is that most organisers of trail runs are in it for the enjoyment and aren't going to sell up.

In reply to Presley Whippet:

This is a bit of a sweeping generalisation, admittedly there is some out there that are in it purely for the cash but the Montane Lakeland 50/100 and Fred Whitton to name two high profile events give large amounts to charity, they are not the only ones.

In reply to PPP:

I don't know if they deliberately bought them with the intention of stopping running them, but they have definitely acquired smaller races in the past, ruined them, then stopped running them for lack of profitability as a result of their ruining them.

In reply to Presley Whippet:

A 50 mile+ mountain ultra takes a hell of a lot of logistics and people-hours to pull off. I play a very small part in volunteering when I'm not running the one for our local running club and we barely cover costs - in fact here in France there's reliance on grants from local councils and a lot of help from volunteers and our full distance entry fee is 70€. 

It's not really fair to compare something like that to UTMB which has become a monster, but I think the biggest problem is the organisation being a bit tone-deaf to the grass roots feelings rather than any objection to the circus of it. To my mind the circus is half the attraction - there isn't really another ultra that comes close to the same spectacle.

Even the debacle around paying for point certification I have a degree of sympathy for (in theory the qualifying races need to be vetted and managed) but again it was handled insensitively and now they're more focused on you qualifying within their own branded ecosystem.

Anyway, I'm going for a run...

In reply to Neil Williams:

I don't think that is the case anymore. Well maybe most but an increasing faction are professional. Which I've no issues with but there are the bad actors in the industry. In fact runners world just did an article on one particularly odious character.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Exactly, this isn't a sudden new direction.

In reply to Ridge:

It depends what they are offering.

No farmer or landowner would give up his land for free if the guy is making a few bob organizing. Lots of races now spend lots on more of the carnival. Food, drinks, bands etc. 

With 3 young kids I'm the turn up, run, leave runner who then gets called arrogant for asking for the prize before the prize giving and leaves straight away..  I'm quite enjoying this new covid style run and leave system we have now because it suits my lifestyle. But for others they want these big to dos. The race is just part of the attraction that is provided.