Ultra runs

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 Levy_danny 05 Mar 2023

I did a 50 miler yesterday (humblebrag) but for the first 20 miles I was pretty low just thinking what the heck am I doing I just couldn’t snap out of it for ages. Does anyone else get this? They were quite dull canal miles but I’ve had it before on other routes as well. Is this common? 

 DaveHK 05 Mar 2023
In reply to Levy_danny:

> They were quite dull canal miles

That's your problem right there.

 shuffle 05 Mar 2023
In reply to DaveHK:

I was going to say the same thing - long routes need to be interesting! 

 timjones 05 Mar 2023
In reply to Levy_danny:

Pick your races based on the quality of the route rather than the distance.
 

I hear loads of runners obsessing about running a 50 miler or a 100 miler but I really could not manage the mental torture of a long distance on a canal towpath and would sooner come up a few miles short of one of those "magic numbers" on a quality hill or mountain route.

 The New NickB 05 Mar 2023
In reply to Levy_danny:

I notice that people haven’t read your OP properly and jumped in with telling you to run in the hills.

Very long races, regardless of the terrain, have a significant psychological element, people often FGP through bad stretches mentally in them. When I’ve done long stuff, I’ve found some form of mental distraction is good for the first few hours.

1
 mountainbagger 05 Mar 2023
In reply to Levy_danny:

> I did a 50 miler yesterday (humblebrag) but for the first 20 miles I was pretty low just thinking what the heck am I doing I just couldn’t snap out of it for ages. Does anyone else get this? They were quite dull canal miles but I’ve had it before on other routes as well. Is this common? 

Yes. In fact, I was done in after 20 miles and just couldn't fathom how I could do another 30! I really thought I wouldn't be able to do it. But I just kept plodding. It wasn't pretty but it ended. I'm hoping the next one won't be so bad as I've improved my nutrition which I totally messed up before.

Today I ran a marathon over the South Downs and the scenery was spectacular, great runnable trails and tracks, but it's still easy to feel overwhelmed if you think about it too much. "Run the mile you're in" they say, but that's easier said than done!

 timjones 05 Mar 2023
In reply to The New NickB:

> I notice that people haven’t read your OP properly and jumped in with telling you to run in the hills.

> Very long races, regardless of the terrain, have a significant psychological element, people often FGP through bad stretches mentally in them. When I’ve done long stuff, I’ve found some form of mental distraction is good for the first few hours.

The actual questions were does anyone else get this and is it common?

Running in the hills is surely a perfectly valid form of mental form of mental distraction

 

 Marek 05 Mar 2023
In reply to The New NickB:

To respond to you and the OP...

It depends on why you run. Because you enjoy running? Because you enjoy finishing (i.e., mainly for the competitive - against yourself or others -  aspect)? Because it get you away (mentally and physically) from something (like the office)? Different people run for different reasons and the answer to your question would depend on why (predominantly) you run.

For what it's worth, my running was for the first of those reasons, so it really didn't matter where I was running (canal paths, mountains, parks...). I enjoyed it anywhere. Or if I didn't, then I wouldn't bother, knowing that tomorrow I'd be in a different mind-frame and good to go. That's not to say that I wasn't worrying sometimes about whether I would survive the run. But that's different in that the 'worrying' didn't really detract from the fun of running. Just added some spice. And I was always aware the at some point in an ultra it wouldn't actually be much fun at all, just some level of pain and misery, But that too was always OK - I knew how to deal with it and that it wouldn't last and that the overall experience would be positive. I can't think back to ANY ultra (racing or informal) that I don't look back on fondly.

To the OP...

I'd suggest you try to mentally separate the tactical issues ("Will I finish/win/get-over-the-next-hill?") from the strategic ones ("Why do I run?"). Accept that they both exist and are both valid, but don't let the former pollute the latter.

 SouthernSteve 05 Mar 2023
In reply to Levy_danny:

I do think this is worse when you have been there before, you are not experiencing new things or watching your navigation. I dropped out of an ultra in 2018, when based on my subsequent getting back to the car speed (without a lift), I definitely could have finished. It was very hot and people were not chatty - everyone was suffering from the temperature and I needed extra distraction.

One of our long runs goes along the Trent and Mersey canal between Kegworth and Burton and although we don't do it very much I wouldn't want double that distance on that path and it is always a relief when we turn south and into the villages and farmland.

 George Ormerod 05 Mar 2023
In reply to timjones:

> The actual questions were does anyone else get this and is it common?

> Running in the hills is surely a perfectly valid form of mental form of mental distraction

>  

I find running is not distracting enough to blot out rumination about how you're feeling, negative thoughts, boredom, etc.  For that you need climbing to terrify you into focus.

 steveriley 05 Mar 2023
In reply to Levy_danny:

Chester Ultra? I had a run on some of the course - the good bit on the Sandstone Trail - wonder if I saw you? I felt a bit sorry for people plodding along roads in the latter part on the A56. I’d recommend the SSTC itself but runner places are full now.

 Neil Williams 06 Mar 2023
In reply to Levy_danny:

> I did a 50 miler yesterday (humblebrag) but for the first 20 miles I was pretty low just thinking what the heck am I doing I just couldn’t snap out of it for ages. Does anyone else get this? They were quite dull canal miles but I’ve had it before on other routes as well. Is this common? 

Running down the canal?  Yes, it's boring doing 5K down the canal.

Give something like The Lap or Lakes in a Day a go?  Beautiful routes, you can't get bored.

OP Levy_danny 06 Mar 2023
In reply to steveriley:

Yeah Chester ultra, got a last minute place and it’s my third at that approx distance other two being grand tour of skiddaw and arc 50 so Completely different. Teamed up with a couple of nice people at 20ish miles which was nice but those first 20 miles I just found mentally tough. Felt really low, had a couple of tight bits in my legs I think from just running the same way and just felt like I couldn’t be bothered. Cheers for all the advice I do think some of it is just the enormity of how far you’ve still got to go then once you see about of progress it gets better. Tunes or a podcast for a bit next time. 

 compost 06 Mar 2023
In reply to Levy_danny:

I was listening to the Bob Graham sounds podcast recently and they dealt with something like this - when you're running to hit a certain distance or time or place, you're running in the future - you're looking to get somewhere or hit a time. When doing something like an ultra (or a Bob Graham) it's helpful to focus on where you are now and what's around you. Richard Askwith said he used to think about being bored and stressed in an office and that helped him appreciate wherever he was at that moment.

Post edited at 08:48
 drunken monkey 06 Mar 2023
In reply to Levy_danny:

I'm no racing snake pushing quick times but have done about 20 ultras of varying distances.  Long runs /races with less interesting scenery I tend to try and chat with as many folk as possible early doors until the pack settles down into some sort of race pattern. By doing this its amazing how quickly the miles tick by even at a relatively modest pace.

If i somehow find myself on my own and go through a "dark" period then i find sticking some music on really helps as well, but this will obviously depend on the route and race rules etc.

 Jimbo C 06 Mar 2023
In reply to Levy_danny:

Maybe I haven't done enough long routes to comment, but the opposite has been the case for me; feeling good at first then feeling completely empty later. 

 yorkshireman 06 Mar 2023
In reply to Jimbo C:

> Maybe I haven't done enough long routes to comment, but the opposite has been the case for me; feeling good at first then feeling completely empty later. 

Absolutely, if you're suitably trained and rested for an 80km run then the first half should be a doddle, unless you're running too fast. But the OP did say it was more of a mental issue than a physical one.

I always find the dip in the middle, but then tend to recover. My last big one was the UTMB - after the first 90km I was tired, but OK although I had a painful knee and thought it might be the end of the race. The next 20km I felt like I'd forgotten how to run and it was purgatory, then for some reason the rest of the race I felt like I was running on fresh legs.

Knowing that something like the above will happen, and is normal makes it easier to manage the hard times on an ultra. You know that ups and down will happen and that the race is long enough for things to change positively again.

When things are bad I tend to try not to disassociate the discomfort as some have suggested. Instead I start a long mental checklist, going methodically through everything in my head. It has the benefit that you start to put it in context - yes I feel sick but I'm going to change my food or lay off for a bit - or walk for a while. Yes I think I'm developing a blister so I'm going to change socks and check my feet at the next checkpoint etc. You can also go through the positives and I think it means you get a more objective view of your situation rather than just 'feeling' good or bad.

Of course you have to do what works for you.

 Jimbo C 06 Mar 2023
In reply to yorkshireman:

I get exactly the same sort of pattern if I'm cycling for 6 or 7 hours. Bad in the middle part but somehow I feel strong into the final hour. 


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