Trail Running Shoes

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davideostar 10 Apr 2020

Hello.

I am an experienced runner, cyclist and hillwalker and would like to try more fell and trail running.

My question is one of foot stability, zero drop and past user experiences of migrating to these style of shoes for fell/trail running.

I've had problems in the past with left knee issues and the move from traditional trainers. I went from Brooks Beast to Adidas Adiboost Adios AdiZero (ridiculous name) to, without realising, zero drop Saucony Kinvara8. As you can imagine, this eliminated any knee issues but resulted in achilles tendonopathy. I was unaware of what the drop rating even was for the above shoes as I had never had to consider it before and the running shop didn't even note the drop on any of their shoes, so I felt more than a little annoyed that they recommended these shoes after previously recommending highly stable Brookes Beast the year before!

With a more considered approach I've been looking at two pairs of trail running shoes online, as covid19 has closed the shops. I was considering trying Salming Trail5 trainers, as the drop appears to be 5mm, so balanced between 0mm and 10mm. I've then looked at eventually mixing these with zero drop Altra Timp 1.5 trainers for trail and fell running, as they both get good views for comfort and the Salming for durability, the Altra for natural foot shape.

I've never worn Altra or Salming shoes before.

Does this seem a valid plan? Has anybody had a similar experience to me and advises for/against mixing zero drop trainers into your fell/trail running? Is zero drop dependent on biomechanics to the extent that some of us humans simply can't ever wear them?

Thanks,

David.

Post edited at 14:07
 DancingOnRock 10 Apr 2020
In reply to davideostar:

Trail shoes don’t tend to have any of those features as you’re not running continuously and repeatedly on hard even surfaces. 

Roadrunner6 10 Apr 2020
In reply to davideostar:

The salming Trail 6 is better than the Trail 5 for me.

https://www.shopsalming.com/products/trail-6-men

I'm a Salming Ambassador for transparancy. But the 5 should be available cheap. In the US they are anyway. I liked the 5's but they had a weird tongue.

Nice solid shoes in general though Salming. Robust.

I just the the 6 is a very general trail shoe, comfortable on any terrain.

davideostar 10 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

Thanks for the response, but I don't understand what features you are referring to.

The heel drop aspect? Durability? For example: ascending with a heel drop of 10mm vs 0mm will definitely make a difference, as the impact on the achilles will be much higher in the 0mm zero drop shoe. Once you're up high and coming down it will of course make less difference.

I've tried to run around some local hills and normal running shoes are just useless, especially on rocks or through mud.

davideostar 10 Apr 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

The trail6 looks good if you want to be found by mountain rescue... what is Salming's obsession with horrendous colours?

For cost reasons I'm sticking to past models, as buying multiple pairs of shoes is going to quickly lead to a vast expense. I also am disappointed to have spent a lot in the past and have found a higher price is no indicator of higher quality.

 DancingOnRock 10 Apr 2020
In reply to davideostar:

Stability, it usually refers to pronation.  
 

And on descent you’re going to be more concerned with an aggressive heel than the drop. Lack of heel can mean the foot slides out from under you if you lean back at all.

On trail/fell your foot is going to be striking the ground in all sorts of different ways and angles, giving your ankles a real work out. The foot bed is mostly irrelevant.  

 wbo2 10 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock: that is entirely dependent on the nature of the trail... trails in Surrey for example are entirely different to ones in Scotland. 

Where are you OP? Also, considering summer and drier  conditions are ahead, why not just use the Kinvara?

 DancingOnRock 10 Apr 2020
In reply to wbo2:

The trails may be. But trail shoes don’t come in stability, motion control, over pronation, neutral types. 

 Jim233 10 Apr 2020
In reply to davideostar:

Hoka might just solve your problem. I've worn Saucony mild support shoes for years but have been trail (and road) running in Hoka Speedboat Evo's for the past year. No knee, heel, or shin pain. Fantastic support and the massive sole dimensions are fantastic on uneven ground. The shoes are neutral but have as much, if not more, actual support than the Saucony's. Definitely worth a try. 

 wbo2 10 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock: umm well they come with varying degrees of motion control, stiffness foreaft, cushioning, responsiveness and drop so I'd argue there is a degree of motion control.  They're  not all Walsh GB's.....

I have a pair of Hokas but wouldn't like them as my only shoes - too soft sometimes,  especially in Summer.  If you like the Kinvara get something similar ( like the Timp) - but try before you buy!!

 The New NickB 10 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

I suspect Salomon would disagree with you, I’m sure they are not alone.

Roadrunner6 10 Apr 2020
In reply to davideostar:

The new enroute 3's are great but you look like you have traffic cones on your feet. Bright orange.

 gooberman-hill 12 Apr 2020
In reply to davideostar:

I'll second the recommendation for Hokas. I have legacy knee and ankle problems (stemming from a nasty deck out and compound heel fracture 30 years ago). My wife recommended Hokas as she had a pair when she was recovering from an injury. I bought a pair and have never looked back - they have enabled me to run further and harder than I ever thought possible (major ultras).

I would recommend the Speed Goat as a great all round shoe for rough terrain. If you are not going onto really rocky ground the Challenger Air is  good, but I have several pairs where the soles have delaminated on really tough ground (eg Mont Blanc 90).

Steve

 petegunn 12 Apr 2020
In reply to davideostar:

Hi David

Just to add my 2p worth, i am now on my 4th pair of sportiva mutants and love them! 

I did my BG round in them and had no issues with my feet at all. 

My regular rounds near home (Talkin Fell) is over track, bog, rough ground and a stretch of tarmac.  

https://www.runultra.co.uk/Reviews/Running-gear/Running-shoes/La-Sportiva-M...

You can sometimes find them cheaper on sites like wiggle etc.

davideostar 20 Apr 2020

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've bought Timp 1.5 in the sale. My experience suggests you do need to size up a half size for Altra trial shoes and perhaps a full size up for the road shoes, to allow your toes to splay out fully. This seems particularly so for those of us with wider feet.

Escalante in size UK9 is no good, a UK9.5 or UK10 would be more fitting.

I've ordered Hoka Speedgoat 3's in the sale for £60 - a bargain, or so I thought. Size UK9, but: turns out the website had mislabelled them and they are womens shoes! Does anybody know if Hoka female shoes are substantially different? Some manufacturers make them almost identical to mens shoes, some have a narrower heel and narrower arch. If they fit and seem ok I will keep them or pass them to a female friend, but I suspect they won't fit my feet.

SportsShoes.com seem very cheap, making me suspicious that they don't pay their staff well. RunnerInn (Spanish?) seem cheap too for last year models of shoes.

FWIW I didn't like the Timp 2.0 and sent them back. The Timp 1.5 seem far better, but when comparing to Hoka I can see they will fall apart far quicker.

 wbo2 20 Apr 2020
In reply to davideostar: Altra did have form for being made of cobwebs... thought they'd got over that.  

To Gooberman hill - interesting you reckon Challengers delaminated - mine have too - your Speedgoats didn't hmmm - are the uppers more durable too.....  this weekend was likely the last weekend this year I'll use Hokas - on Saturday it was warmer and they just felt too soft, dead,,, pegasus all the way now


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