strength and speed training.

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 jondo 23 Mar 2018

does anyone do strength and speed training for long distance ? 

if so, what kind ? and does it help you with performance ?

 wbo 23 Mar 2018
In reply to jondo:it's pretty difficult to improve much without some speed training .  What do you mean by long distances though?

 

 Wainers44 23 Mar 2018
In reply to jondo:

I do, as per another thread on here recently. I'm not great for structured training so just mix up faster miles, lots of hills, and even a blast up and down the staircases at the local railway station loads of times. It does seem to make a huge difference, especially on the weeks when you struggle to get many miles in.

OP jondo 23 Mar 2018
In reply to wbo:

HM to full marathon.

 summo 23 Mar 2018
In reply to jondo:

> HM to full marathon.

Depending on your existing programme if you added in or swapped some sessions for either 10reps of 400m, 4x800m, 3x 1km.. once or twice a week with a recovery day after, you will notice some results after 2-3 months that you won't get just from plodding out more miles.

It does really depending on just what you do now and what you can fit in without over training. So those examples could increase or decrease, the 400m could be uphill too. 

Post edited at 07:51
 yorkshireman 23 Mar 2018
In reply to jondo:

My target races are mostly ultra distance events and I've found that with just grinding out the miles you easily plateau - it becomes 'easy' unless you add some speed work.

I try and get at least one workout a week - either some hill repeats - usually 8x300m, or a flattish Steady State Run with 3x15min periods at close to 10km race pace spaced with 5 min recoveries. 

Strength training is something I've never done since I've been a runner and I'm keen to start. However I think the bulk of it needs to be done in the off season but I'm going to start with maybe a couple of weight sessions per week on easy run days. The aim is more to increase range of mobility, core strength and resistance to injury - it apparently helps with running economy too.

OP jondo 23 Mar 2018
In reply to yorkshireman:

 

> Strength training is something I've never done since I've been a runner and I'm keen to start. However I think the bulk of it needs to be done in the off season but I'm going to start with maybe a couple of weight sessions per week on easy run days. The aim is more to increase range of mobility, core strength and resistance to injury - it apparently helps with running economy too.

yeah, im thinking its similar to bouldering and sport climbing - if you are stronger you invest less of your total strength in each move , so it improves your endurance as well.

 wbo 23 Mar 2018
In reply to jondo: well warm up, 6times a km at predicted/desired 5km pace with a minutes rest, warm down.  6 will be hard going to start with so maybe begin with 4, go hard and expect to shuffle the minutes rest.  

  Very good, common session for a lot of good runners

 

 The New NickB 23 Mar 2018
In reply to jondo:

I’m marathon training at the moment, a normal week for me includes one speed session eg 4 x 1 mile at slightly faster than 5k PB pace with 3 minutes recovery, one 5k at lactate threshold, one 10 mile at target marathon pace, then three slower runs including my long run. The speedwork needs to match your planned event, no point doing short reps for marathon, although I’ll make an exception to that for hills.

OP jondo 23 Mar 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

sounds like a tough speed session at that pace. 

 The New NickB 23 Mar 2018
In reply to jondo:

> sounds like a tough speed session at that pace. 

They need to be tough, I tend to think that unless you have an uncommon level of motivation, speed work is much more effective when done as part of a group.

OP jondo 24 Mar 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

> They need to be tough, I tend to think that unless you have an uncommon level of motivation, speed work is much more effective when done as part of a group.

ah, ok. I always train alone, so  my speed work is quite rare. 

i tend to do squats, skips, that kind of strength workouts which require less time and motivation...

Roadrunner6 25 Mar 2018
In reply to jondo:

What distance?

I think general conditioning helps but not so much to get stronger.

Speed work I think it helps running efficiency, but I think threshold sessions are about the most important session. So 1-4 miles at around 10k > 10 mile pace, basically the speed you can run hard for an hour at. 1 min rest per mile at that same speed.

But don't ignore fairly quick medium long runs, around 10-20% off marathon pace. These really build the strength and conditioning. I'd really ignore the LSD meaning Long and Slow, its Long and Steady. 

So steady consistent effort. For me that's 7:10-7:40 pace long runs but fast finish. But most aerobic gains come between 80 and 120 minutes so go that duration at least twice a week, more when building that base. Most marathoners do too many too long road runs too slowly. steady pace and fast finish at around MP in the final 6 weeks or so.

 

 

OP jondo 26 Mar 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

well im thinking to do a marathon. 

im faily in shape most of the time, but with tempo runs at around 10k i plateaued at a certain pace and couldnt really extend that pace to 20-30k. (dropped about 20sec/km ). 

i heard some people train by doing 5k reps with breaks instead of long and steady as you called it. so 5*5k could replace a weekly long training run. similar to your suggested mile reps but longer. 

any experience with that sort of thing ? 

 

Roadrunner6 26 Mar 2018
In reply to jondo:

No, I follow a Daniels program from Advanced Marathoning. Which follows mesocycles, I'm just in a endurance cycle, which is long runs with the odd tempo session and lots of easy aerobic running.

There'sa  great facebook group called Sub 3 marathon. Really good advice, loads of good runners but very positive with advice, no flaming people. 

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=sub%203%20marathon.


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