Poor dorsiflexion - try forefoot running?

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 Duncan Beard 06 Feb 2021

I seem to have a congenital condition where I have basically zero dorsiflexion. I've always been a slow runner & I suspect that is one of the reasons. If I do heelstrike technique I seem to get a lot of shock right up into my upper body & on tarmac my ankles ache after a few short runs, though I can't see a direct connection with the dorsiflexion issue. Running on grass is much better. I have read a bit about forefoot running & it seems the way to go for me. Has anyone got any advice or opinions on this?

 SouthernSteve 06 Feb 2021
In reply to Duncan Beard:

I have no idea whether this would be a good idea for you, but worry that changing your running form might just cause some other problem. I would be tempted to see a sports physio before changing anything. You may find you run into more calf / achilles problems. A simple first step might be to increase you cadence, which will naturally put your feet under you when you strike the ground and shift a little away from a hard heel strike. 

OP Duncan Beard 06 Feb 2021
In reply to SouthernSteve:

Sounds like a good idea to see a physio when possible. I would comment that I do so little running that changing technique may not be a big issue, as in it would be no worse than anything else I do. I'll certainly be taking it very easy on speed & distance to start with. When I say running I mean jogging really but I will give the cadence thing a try. Just waiting for an ankle to improve, I managed to trip badly on a Peak walk while looking up at the crag! Ideally I'd like to be running decent distance over the Peaks eventually.

 girlymonkey 06 Feb 2021
In reply to Duncan Beard:

Have you tried yoga? A running focussed one might help. I reckon most of us as climbers, runners and cyclists could benefit from working on flexibilty and balance, and yoga seems pretty good for that. Unlikely to do any harm!

 Ciro 06 Feb 2021
In reply to Duncan Beard:

Heelstriking absolutely does create shock all the way up your spine to your head, as it prevents the soft tissues in the foot arch, knees etc. from doing the job of absorption and return of energy they evolved for.

No amount of shoe cushioning can make up for that, and in fact studies have shown that with cushioning in the shoe we naturally strike the ground harder, seeking the stability underneath.

Switching to a natural forefoot strike can be injurious though if not done carefully - even if you aren't doing much other rubbing beforehand. Cushioned shoes will allow you to get away with bad technique for a while and then injury strikes.

Take it slow, and really focus on correct form.

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 Marek 06 Feb 2021
In reply to Duncan Beard:

As you say, it's not obvious why limited dorsiflexion should make heal-strike any worse than usual. I would suspect that the problem is more to do with when you roll from the heal to the forefoot - will limited dorsiflexion that going to put a lot of stresses in the foot/ankle that they are not used to.

I would really strongly recommend you see a physio (the 'right' physio, too) rather than rely on internet advise (apart for this one) or experiment too much (such as jumping on the 'forefoot running' bandwagon). Foot problems tend to quite complex and unforgiving - not surprising when you consider how structurally complex the foot is and how much stress (body-weight) it has to cope with.

 David Riley 06 Feb 2021
In reply to Duncan Beard:

> I seem to have a congenital condition where I have basically zero dorsiflexion. I've always been a slow runner & I suspect that is one of the reasons.

A long time ago I got stress fractures in both feet by alternating frenetic badminton with too much running, and have got stuck in the bad habit of running fairly flat footed since.  Over the last year I have run less. But all of it on my forefoot. The object is to run faster. The priority not to suffer injury in the transition.  I'm running short distances faster than I can maintain.  It feels like I've done it now.  A sign to be extra careful.

 mountainbagger 06 Feb 2021
In reply to Duncan Beard:

I wouldn't switch to forefoot striking as that can also lead to problems. I suppose your ideal striking position would be how you would naturally run barefoot, which is not necessarily forefoot striking.

However, running without cushioned shoes is a long and very careful transition.

If nothing else, I'd consider foot and ankle strengthening exercises. I got a book for Christmas called "Older Yet Faster" and, whilst I can't vouch for the minimalist running aims of the book yet, the foot strengthening exercises, spiky ball massage etc. have been immensely helpful in keeping me running and improving my posture, reducing over-striding etc. The book also has a Facebook group for support and one of the authors is a physio and very responsive to questions on the group. Anyway, it might help: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0648772713/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_CB9W08N1Q277...

 Neil Williams 06 Feb 2021
In reply to Duncan Beard:

Heelstriking is fine, but make sure you wear well-padded shoes if running that way because otherwise you would indeed be getting a lot of shock going straight up your legs with each step, which could cause e.g. a stress fracture.  Definitely don't wear "barefoot style" shoes if you heelstrike.

Changing to forefoot striking is possible but won't suit everyone (can cause other injuries) and does take time to transition.

If you want to improve your dorsiflexion, assuming there's nothing seriously wrong there and it's just inflexibility, try Googling for stretches, there'll be plenty of that sort of stuff on Youtube.  But as you mention a condition I'd probably echo seeing a physio beforehand.

Post edited at 17:15
 Pbob 06 Feb 2021
In reply to Duncan Beard:

Have you tried some shoes with a pronounced rocker (I use Hoka One One but other brands are available). For a long time I was convinced I just couldn't run. Then I found that I could actually run in a pair of heavy stiff walking books, and figured out it was due to the rocker in the sole. After that I bought some running shoes with a rocker and now can run.

 Dan Arkle 06 Feb 2021
In reply to Duncan Beard:

Some good advice to be careful here. 

Trying forefoot running was one of the causes of my plantar fasciitis. It's now been two years and I still can't run. 😢

 Neil Williams 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Dan Arkle:

The problem is that while those structures did evolve for the purpose of absorbing shock, if you don't use them for that they weaken, so if you transition too quickly you do damage, I guess that happened to you

But there's nothing wrong with heelstriking provided you have appropriate "bouncy" shoes for it.  A very large proportion of runners heelstrike.

And I doubt it would do anything for dorsiflexion anyway, unless you're leaning forward at a silly angle...stretches will fix that, assuming there's not some sort of anatomical problem which the OP sort of alluded to (so probably best to get professional advice rather than knackering things on an assumption and a YouTube video ).

Post edited at 00:43
 SouthernSteve 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

> But there's nothing wrong with heelstriking provided you have appropriate "bouncy" shoes for it.  A very large proportion of runners heelstrike.

I don’t think this is about bouncy shoes as much as where the foot lands in relation to the trunk.  Over-reaching causes considerable breaking force. A quicker cadence moves the foot under the body and stops this  

https://www.kinetic-revolution.com/running-technique-6-ways-to-improve-effi...

 wbo2 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Duncan Beard: I'm a little intrigued ... if you try heelstrike technique... quite simply if I kicked you out on a piece of grass and told you to run, how would you run, where do you land?

What shoes are you using? Do you have the option to run a lot on grass or softer trails? Have you ever tried speedwork or drills, or something to improve the dorsiflexion,? DO you have entirely rigid feet.

Sorry about the many questons, but I see a lot of discussions around running technique and methodology, and to be blunt a lot of them, for example pose running, look like complete nonsense and bad solutions to minor problems 

 Neil Williams 07 Feb 2021
In reply to SouthernSteve:

> I don’t think this is about bouncy shoes as much as where the foot lands in relation to the trunk.  Over-reaching causes considerable breaking force. A quicker cadence moves the foot under the body and stops this  

Yes, very true, higher cadence is of benefit regardless of whether you heel or toe strike.  However, it's still the case that heelstrikers have little "natural" "suspension" and as such benefit from "bouncy" shoes.  This doesn't make it a problem, though, as there is hardly a shortage of such shoes on the market, it's not like everyone is running in PE plimsolls or something.

OP Duncan Beard 07 Feb 2021
In reply to wbo2:

I think my 'natural' running 'style' is landing flat on my feet

About 4 years ago I got some cheap (Karrimor) running shoes to try to get fit in the winter, ran only on tarmac paths (dark & damp), tried to stride out a bit more in the hope of rolling my foot from heelstrike over to forefoot. Although the shoes seemed to have good cushioning at the heel, after a few sessions my ankles ached badly.

My locally available off-road circuit is 2k of old railway track & farm track so it's firm but uneven & varies from light mud to packed earth and stones. This is followed by 1k up & downhill on softer track/farmland/grass then about 1k on tarmac back home. I can drive a mile or two to two local parks, mainly grass with some gradients, one with some steps & earth tracks. I use La Sportive Ultra Raptors at these venues as they fit me well.

I've tried to improve dorsiflexion with stretching, with no noticeable change in forward flex, but given up due to ankles aching again.

 mountainbagger 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Dan Arkle:

> Some good advice to be careful here. 

> Trying forefoot running was one of the causes of my plantar fasciitis. It's now been two years and I still can't run. 😢

I feel your pain (almost literally). Achilles insertional tendonitis and Haglunds Deformity for me. I can run but it's not how it used to be. I made the mistake of trying forefoot striking. It was great at first once my calves had adjusted, but tendons take a lot longer and I didn't recognise the warning signs early enough. What I should have done is focus on foot strengthening exercises and a more natural running style (no over-stride, engaging my glutes, etc.) instead of incorrectly thinking natural = forefoot striking.

As a minor victory after more than 2 years of discomfort, I managed to run 268 miles in January. Obviously it wasn't completely pain free but it was manageable


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